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Old 10-25-2014, 09:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Most people who convert to Christianity study the religion first with the guidance of a pastor. Does a person who converts to Islam have to do the same?
People generally accept the religions of their fathers, when a person converts, it is not usually for the religion, but rather for his new group of friends, learning the religion as time passes.
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Most people who convert to Christianity study the religion first with the guidance of a pastor. Does a person who converts to Islam have to do the same?
No.

There is no Joining process involved. We do not "Join" Islam. We either submit to Allah(swt) "Perform the act of Islam" or we don't. there is no identifying means of who is a Muslim.

Accepting Islam is between the individual and Allaah(swt) alone.

There is no conversion process. A person who says he is a Muslims is considered to be a Muslim although we might point out to them their acts do not appear to be Islamic.

We also do not have any ordained clergy.

Islam is all about personal responsibility. We alone are responsible for seeking out sources to learn about Islam.

We have no way to know who is a Muslim except their saying they are. Only the individual and Allaah(swt) know for certain who is a Muslim.

The only way we can tell a person is not a Muslim is if the individual says he isn't or if the person consistently refuses to do the 5 pillars after being told many times they are required to do them.

But even then we still have to allow them in the Mosque and can not prevent them from praying with us. There is no excommunication in Islam.

while to verify to our peers we are Muslim, we may request to say the Shahadah aloud in the Mosque shortly before or afted prayer time.
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:57 AM
 
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A rose by any other name.
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Old 10-25-2014, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
I think it would go along way if the media had some moderate Muslim spokespeople that would be viewed as the "go to" person not only when terrorist attacks occurred, but at other times like Ramadan. As I stated in my earlier posts, where are the Ghandis, Martin Luther Kings, or Mandelas of the Muslim world. And why are there no prominent moderate Muslim spokespeople know from the Middle East?

Look, I concur that the vast, vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and don't want anything to do with terrorism. But there is a but. The but is, why is the vast majority of religious terrorism coming from one religion, and why is there so little that the majority of that religion can do about it?

Those are legitimate questions, Woodrow, and and a sustained effort needs to happen from within the Muslim community. Otherwise those that would backlash will win.
It would go a long way if we had a person that could speak for all Muslims or even the Muslims in a local community.

But none exists. No person has the right or authority to speak for any Muslim except himself. (In spite of me frequently saying We)

We also do not have any ordained clergy. We do not even have a person who is qualified to speak as an authority about the Islamic teachings in a local community. No individual can claim they speak for Islam or even for any group of Muslims.

There is no organized Muslim Community, that is under the authority of a religious leader. The Mideast is a small minority of the World's Muslims. Only about 25% of the world's Muslims have any Mideastern heritage.


Now in spite of my typical long winded spiel I can think of several Muslim Ghandis, Mandelas etc that are within my Lifetime.

HERE

HERE


HERE


HERE


HERE

HERE
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Old 10-25-2014, 12:30 PM
 
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There are countless people who speak loudly for Islam, But these are not the people Islam wants the west to hear,
Choudery in England does, ISIS does, all over Islam preachers are speaking of Islamic doctrine.

What you are looking for is someone who will go against the written doctrine and speak out, but these are silenced when confronted with facts, or silenced by muslims themselves as apostates.
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Old 10-25-2014, 12:36 PM
 
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I saw an article on Muslim school children performing a play in which they pretended to conduct beheadings. What a charming way to denounce violence. Teach them it's normal, okay and encouraged. Way to go peaceful Muslims!
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Old 10-25-2014, 01:16 PM
 
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Beheading was Muhammeds favorite form of killing, granted, he used other methods, but in many cases beheaded hundreds at a time.
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Old 10-25-2014, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
I saw an article on Muslim school children performing a play in which they pretended to conduct beheadings. What a charming way to denounce violence. Teach them it's normal, okay and encouraged. Way to go peaceful Muslims!
I can not say that does not happen. But it is not part of any Islamic school I know of.

I find it odd that has not been plastered on Western Media world wide. Seems like it is something the anti-Islamic people would love to show the world about us.

But I did find this:

Quote:
A recent episode of Byline with Brian Lilley, a news program that airs on Canada's Sun News Network, focuses on the 'radicalization of Canada,' starting with an incident involving a Pakistani mother and her son who threatened and intimated her daughter after she began dating a white male who worked with her at McDonald's.

The segment then turned to an Islamic Centre in Thornhill, Ontario, the Islamic Jaffari Centre, where, according to footage Lilley obtained, 4-year-old's were taught to conduct a 'mock beheading' during a school play.
Quote:
However, Lilley admits that he is no expert on Muslims or their faith, and asks his guest on the show, liberal activist/author Tarek Fatah, author of The Jew is Not My Enemy: Unveiling the Myths that Fuel Muslim Anti-Semitism, to explain the play to him, asking if it was similar to Catholics teaching their children about Jesus by having them conduct a play on his crucifixion.

Fatah replies that the scenarios are actually quite similar, as the play depicts the martyrdom of Muhammad’s grandson and brother.

“It’s a Shiite school, and it’s commemorating one of the great tragedies in Islamic history, which is the slaughter of the Prophet Muhammad’s family by the caliphate of the time,” says Fatah, who also notes that he himself watched these plays as a boy growing up in Pakistan.
Quote:
However, news agencies that decided to publish this story have neglected to mention that these children aren't being taught to behead others in the school of British rapper turned ISIS member Jihadi John, but were merely reenacting a religious history lesson.
SOURCE

That is like saying the teaching of the "Passion of Christ" is teaching Christian children, how to conduct crucifixions.
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:04 PM
 
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Not Hardly, the passions of the Christ is a made for Hollywood, movie, and does not conform with documented Christian teachings.
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:05 PM
 
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Unlike the muhammed movie, where all incidents are taken from scripture.
But still a slapstick movie.
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