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Old 11-23-2014, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
I know he is not muslim, I gave an example of what muslims do all the time when confronted with the evils of Islam.

First they blame the Jews,
Then blame the Christians.
Then say it must be in Arabic to understand.
Then it is out of context.
Then change the subject

A series of excused to avoid facing the facts, deflecting the issue to something else.
I agree that all of those excuses are used. That does not mean they are not valid.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:58 AM
 
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When the topic is a certain incident or thought, none of them are valid.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
When the topic is a certain incident or thought, none of them are valid.
One thing I see non-Muslims do very often is to quote a single ayyat in the belief it is a complete thought.

Ayyats are not stand alone statements. An ayyat by itself is out of context.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:17 AM
 
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One of the reasons I like Ishaq and Taburi, they are in chronological order and can be used to identify the conditions Qur'anic verses were written.
Time, place, surrounding events, and audience.

The Qur'an itself is easy to quote out of context to people who don't know any better.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
One of the reasons I like Ishaq and Taburi, they are in chronological order and can be used to identify the conditions Qur'anic verses were written.
Time, place, surrounding events, and audience.

The Qur'an itself is easy to quote out of context to people who don't know any better.
Not if they read the full surah the ayyat is contained in.

I find the most common ayyat misused is

9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them

Which very many non-Muslims believe is a command. Most non-Muslims apparently have never read all of Surat 9 or even the 12 lines that pertain to 9:5-- (9:1-12) is a single thought. A single ayyat is out of context of the thought.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:54 AM
 
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This is actually the most misquoted verse in all of Islam


Sahih International
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:56 AM
 
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Sahih International 9'5

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Not if they read the full surah the ayyat is contained in.

I find the most common ayyat misused is

9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them

Which very many non-Muslims believe is a command. Most non-Muslims apparently have never read all of Surat 9 or even the 12 lines that pertain to 9:5-- (9:1-12) is a single thought. A single ayyat is out of context of the thought.
And if you read the whole thing you can see it is extortion.
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
And if you read the whole thing you can see it is extortion.
Not if you understand 1-12 relate to those that violated the treaty and These ayyat relate to the Muslims that the treaty is no longer valid. This related specifically to the polytheists in Mecca and was issued as a warning that the Polytheists had one year ( the full cycle of the 4 sacred months) to vacate Mecca, which they did and no blood was shed. It is not a command to kill all non-Muslims as some seem to believe.
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Not if you understand 1-12 relate to those that violated the treaty and These ayyat relate to the Muslims that the treaty is no longer valid. This related specifically to the polytheists in Mecca and was issued as a warning that the Polytheists had one year ( the full cycle of the 4 sacred months) to vacate Mecca, which they did and no blood was shed. It is not a command to kill all non-Muslims as some seem to believe.
If you read the whole books, the treaty excuse is used all the time.

There were no treaties, the Jews and Christians were not at war.

muhammed would come in and demand extortion money, if they paid, sometimes they would be allowed to live. If they refused to pay, they violated the treaty.

I believe I asked you before to show me one of these treaties.
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