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Old 11-23-2014, 09:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
They burned the major libraries which were in Tripoli, Baghdad and Egypt. As the books were all hand written most were the only copies in existence.
Except they still have the books of the 9th and 10th century, not the 7th.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:57 AM
 
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BTW, the first crusade was about 1200
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:58 AM
 
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correction 1100
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:59 AM
 
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And I don't recall any of the crusades going into Iran
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
And I don't recall any of the crusades going into Iran
I don't think Tripoli, Egypt and Baghdad are in Iran.


Some evidence of early Ahadith HERE
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:14 AM
 
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No they are not, but you have the same phony history of Islam in Iran, nothing from the 7th and 8th century.

Or were these people also memorizing for 200 years.

There is no way out of this.

The religion was created over a 300 year period, and none of it was in the 7th century.
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Except they still have the books of the 9th and 10th century, not the 7th.
Perhaps there were more than one copy of each book written in the 9th and 10th centuries.

I can only guess why few if any survived from the 7th and 8th centuries and my guess is because they only existed in single copies and were in the 3 major libraries.
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:32 AM
 
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We can manipulate guesses all we want, but common sense would dictate they were in all of the muslim areas.

Even the Ulthman Qur'an was supposedly sent to 5 places, where is would immeidatly be copied into countless editions.
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
No they are not, but you have the same phony history of Islam in Iran, nothing from the 7th and 8th century.

Or were these people also memorizing for 200 years.

There is no way out of this.

The religion was created over a 300 year period, and none of it was in the 7th century.
It seems historians disagree with that.

Until recent times virtually the entire history of Islam in Iran was from the Armenian Christian bishop Sebeos

For example

Quote:
[The following is from chapter 30 of Bedrosian's translation:]

I shall discuss the [line of the] son of Abraham: not the one [born] of a free [woman], but the one born of a serving maid, about whom the quotation from Scripture was fully and truthfully fulfilled, "His hands will be at everyone, and everyone will have their hands at him" [Genesis 16. 11,12]. Twelve peoples [representing] all the tribes of the Jews assembled at the city of Edessa. When they saw that the Iranian troops had departed leaving the city in peace, they [122] closed the gates and fortified themselves. They refused entry to troops of the Roman lordship. Thus Heraclius, emperor of the Byzantines, gave the order to besiege it. When [the Jews] realized that they could not militarily resist him, they promised to make peace. Opening the city gates, they went before him, and [Heraclius] ordered that they should go and stay in their own place. So they departed, taking the road through the desert to Tachkastan to the sons of Ishmael. [The Jews] called [the Arabs] to their aid and familiarized them with the relationship they had through the books of the [Old] Testament. Although [the Arabs] were convinced of their close relationship, they were unable to get a consensus from their multitude, for they were divided from each other by religion. In that period a certain one of them, a man of the sons of Ishmael named Muhammad, became prominent [t'ankangar]. A sermon about the Way of Truth, supposedly at God's command, was revealed to them, and [Muhammad] taught them to recognize the God of Abraham, especially since he was informed and knowledgeable about Mosaic history. Because the command had [g104] come from on High, he ordered them all to assemble together and to unite in faith. Abandonning the reverence of vain things, they turned toward the living God, who had appeared to their father--Abraham. Muhammad legislated that they were not to [123] eat carrion, not to drink wine, not to speak falsehoods, and not to commit adultery. He said: "God promised that country to Abraham and to his son after him, for eternity. And what had been promised was fulfilled during that time when [God] loved Israel. Now, however, you are the sons of Abraham, and God shall fulfill the promise made to Abraham and his son on you. Only love the God of Abraham, and go and take the country which God gave to your father Abraham. No one can successfully resist you in war, since God is with you."
SOURCE

Since then it seems more sources were found see HERE
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
I know he is not muslim, I gave an example of what muslims do all the time when confronted with the evils of Islam.

First they blame the Jews,
Then blame the Christians.
Then say it must be in Arabic to understand.
Then it is out of context.
Then change the subject

A series of excused to avoid facing the facts, deflecting the issue to something else.
My point was that what is the difference between a muslim who takes the Koran literally and a christian who takes the Bible literally? Think about it, the OT is based on a supposed Moses who wanders up a mountain, no witnesses, and supposedly has a conversation with Yahweh. Mohammed goes into a cave, no witnesses, and supposedly has a conversation with the angel Gabriel. We might as well throw in Joesph Smith and his meeting with Moroni... no witnesses again. As there were no witnesses to any of these 'visions', they must be true, right?

At least we know Mohammed and Smith were real people. Moses? Not so much so.
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