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Old 12-28-2014, 09:49 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,503,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I believe an Apostate has committed a very serious sin and is risking eternal punishment.

But like most who follow the Hanafi Madhab I do not believe it is a Hadud crime that we have a right to punish a person for. It is an issue between the individual and Allaah(swt) not one we have the right to punish a person for.
Why would a god worth his salts care if someone chose a different religion, rejected their own or opted for none at all? Sounds like an undeveloped flawed insecure tyrannical human being.
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Old 12-28-2014, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Why would a god worth his salts care if someone chose a different religion, rejected their own or opted for none at all? Sounds like an undeveloped flawed insecure tyrannical human being.
I se it analogous to going to the airport and buying a ticket. Can't blame the ticket agent if you want to go to Paris but insist on buying a ticket to Afghanistan

It is all about our choices. We are free to get a ticket to what ever destination we want, but the ticket we buy will be our destination. We best be certain we really want the ticket we are paying for. Can't change the ticket after we board the plane.
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I se it analogous to going to the airport and buying a ticket. Can't blame the ticket agent if you want to go to Paris but insist on buying a ticket to Afghanistan

It is all about our choices. We are free to get a ticket to what ever destination we want, but the ticket we buy will be our destination. We best be certain we really want the ticket we are paying for. Can't change the ticket after we board the plane.
thats a very poor analogy considering the fact that 99% of us didnt get a choice on what religion to take.

think of it instead as waking up in a boat. the only choice you have is jumping out into the ocean and swimming to another boat. in some cases some muslims would shoot you dead in the water. being shot dead or not, why would anyone bother making such a 'choice'? unless someone becomes too unhappy in his boat. amen?
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Old 12-29-2014, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
thats a very poor analogy considering the fact that 99% of us didnt get a choice on what religion to take.

think of it instead as waking up in a boat. the only choice you have is jumping out into the ocean and swimming to another boat. in some cases some muslims would shoot you dead in the water. being shot dead or not, why would anyone bother making such a 'choice'? unless someone becomes too unhappy in his boat. amen?
By the time we reach the age of reason, we all have a choice. Rituals can be forced, beliefs can not.

While it is possible to force a person to engage in religious rituals it is impossible to force belief upon a person who has the ability to reason.

I believe all people that sincerely seek the path to heaven will be led to it, I also believe Allaah(swt) will make concessions based upon what is available to the individual. Perfection is not expected, only our desire to do the best we can with what we have and know.
Just my opinion Astagfirullah
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Old 12-29-2014, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
By the time we reach the age of reason, we all have a choice. Rituals can be forced, beliefs can not.

While it is possible to force a person to engage in religious rituals it is impossible to force belief upon a person who has the ability to reason.

I believe all people that sincerely seek the path to heaven will be led to it, I also believe Allaah(swt) will make concessions based upon what is available to the individual. Perfection is not expected, only our desire to do the best we can with what we have and know.
Just my opinion Astagfirullah
we all have a choice that most of us would rather not take. which is why most buddhists remain buddhists, why most christians remain christians, and why most muslims remain muslims.

free will is just an illusion. the human being is conditioned to remain where he is comfortable.
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Old 12-29-2014, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
we all have a choice that most of us would rather not take. which is why most buddhists remain buddhists, why most christians remain christians, and why most muslims remain muslims.

free will is just an illusion. the human being is conditioned to remain where he is comfortable.
Free will is a gift many do not seem to have the desire to pursue. But that is their free will choice.
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Old 12-29-2014, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Free will is a gift many do not seem to have the desire to pursue.
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Old 01-01-2015, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,951 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
By the time we reach the age of reason, we all have a choice. Rituals can be forced, beliefs can not.

While it is possible to force a person to engage in religious rituals it is impossible to force belief upon a person who has the ability to reason.

I believe all people that sincerely seek the path to heaven will be led to it, I also believe Allaah(swt) will make concessions based upon what is available to the individual. Perfection is not expected, only our desire to do the best we can with what we have and know.
Just my opinion Astagfirullah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Free will is a gift many do not seem to have the desire to pursue. But that is their free will choice.

I gotta say, Woodrow, you finished the year making a lot of sense.

Happy New Year.
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Old 01-01-2015, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I gotta say, Woodrow, you finished the year making a lot of sense.

Happy New Year.
Now I have 365 fresh days to stick my foot in my mouth
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Old 01-01-2015, 04:42 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,503,833 times
Reputation: 3870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I se it analogous to going to the airport and buying a ticket. Can't blame the ticket agent if you want to go to Paris but insist on buying a ticket to Afghanistan

It is all about our choices. We are free to get a ticket to what ever destination we want, but the ticket we buy will be our destination. We best be certain we really want the ticket we are paying for. Can't change the ticket after we board the plane.
Ok, why should the travel agent (other than a trivial busybody) care - and who is the travel agent to judge whether Paris or Kandahar is the best option? Again, believe in me (I'm so bloody egotistical and insecure that I require it, or be damned). What tyrannical rubbish.
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