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Old 03-07-2015, 10:04 PM
 
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No doubt it will be difficult to stop their destruction. After Mosul, it's been noted ISIS could be going to Hatra and Khorsabad since they too have great ancient artifacts.

It's been noted that they are bulldozing sites but that's the fate for the 'larger' pieces. Unfortunately, it is the 'smaller' pieces which will be illegally trafficked and sold to high bidders.

What a mess. What wanton destruction of antiquities from a great historical culture. I abhor it.

 
Old 03-08-2015, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
No doubt it will be difficult to stop their destruction. After Mosul, it's been noted ISIS could be going to Hatra and Khorsabad since they too have great ancient artifacts.

It's been noted that they are bulldozing sites but that's the fate for the 'larger' pieces. Unfortunately, it is the 'smaller' pieces which will be illegally trafficked and sold to high bidders.

What a mess. What wanton destruction of antiquities from a great historical culture. I abhor it.

I think it's important to mention something that the reporters failed to acknowledge.

Islam forbids images.

Chess games are even forbidden because of the horse figure of the knight piece.
 
Old 03-08-2015, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Registration View Post
I think it's important to mention something that the reporters failed to acknowledge.

Islam forbids images.

Chess games are even forbidden because of the horse figure of the knight piece.
Have you ever heard of Muslims destroying chess sets that do not belong to them.


True we are forbidden to make images.
We also are forbidden to damage the property of other people.

The consensus of the ulemah scholars is that if we did not make them, do not own them and as long as we do not worship or venerate them we should leave them alone.

I must mention there are scholars that disagree with the consensensus. but the consensus is based upon the actions of the sahabah (The companions of Muhammad) it is noted that many statues did exist during their time and they did not destroy them. They did not make, them, own them or worship them.
The ancient Statues in Iraq, Iran, Egypt, etc would have been known to Muhammad(saaws) and his companions, but they did not destroy them or order them destroyed.
The only Statues Muhammad(saaws) is know were those in the Khabbah. --to understand that one needs to understand the history of the Khabbah, it was originally a monotheistic house of worship most likely Christian or Jewish, without statues until the invasion of the Pagans before the birth of Muhammad(saaws)

Quote:
History:

According to the Quran, the Ka'aba was built by the prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael as a house of monotheistic worhip. However, by the time of Muhammad, the Ka'aba had been taken over by pagan Arabs to house their numerous tribal gods. In 630 A.D., Muhammad and his followers took over leadership of Mecca after years of persecution. Muhammad destroyed the idols inside the Ka'aba and re-dedicated it as a house of monotheistic worship.
The Ka'aba - Description, History, Role

ISIS seems to be acting a bit hypocritical, they are destroying the big objects they can not move, but selling the ones they can easily move.
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Old 03-08-2015, 09:36 AM
 
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You know just a bit further on the plundering. I am not aware of specific areas like necropolis' being dug up by ISIS in Syria but considering their previous and current behavior I'd think it's quite likely that they look to them for finds to sell as well. But if they do it sure doesn't seem they respect the sacredness of the dead throughout the millenia. What may the Koran say about that? The place of the dead that is.
 
Old 03-08-2015, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
You know just a bit further on the plundering. I am not aware of specific areas like necropolis' being dug up by ISIS in Syria but considering their previous and current behavior I'd think it's quite likely that they look to them for finds to sell as well. But if they do it sure doesn't seem they respect the sacredness of the dead throughout the millenia. What may the Koran say about that? The place of the dead that is.
While we place no importance on graves and do not condone the visiting of graves or making shrines over a grave. The desecration of the dead and the damaging of any human remains is forbidden.

As odd as it sounds we do believe their is awareness after death and the dead are aware of what happens after death and can experience pain etc. This is known as torment of the grave.
For the righteous, it will be a very fast passing time of blissful fest, unless disturbed. For others it will be the beginning of torment.

I do not think there is anything in the Qur'an that could be considered a ruling about the dead or graves.
But looking at the Ahadith and what Muhammad(saaws) and the Sahabah did we find:

Quote:
a. Going to graveyards

It is obvious that every Muslim has to take the dead among his/her people to bury them in the graves. Therefore, going to graveyards for burying the dead in their graves is a part of Islam. The disagreement starts when it comes to going to graveyards at times other than funerals i.e. going to graves of the people who are already buried. Let us go through the following hadith:

Sulaiman bin Buraidah narrated from his father that Allah’s Messenger (PBUH) said, “I had prohibited you from visiting graves. But Muhammad (PBUH) was permitted to visit the grave of his mother; so visit them, for they will remind you of the Hereafter.”

(Hadith No. 1054, Chapters on Janaiz, Jami’ At-Tirmidhi, Vol. 2).

Thus we come to know that it was not allowed to go to graveyards earlier, but later on Allah’s Messenger (PBUH) permitted people to go to the graves. The important thing to remember is that the graves remind us of the hereafter, as mentioned in the hadith above.

There is a dua that should be recited when someone enters a graveyard (reported by Tirmidhi on authority of Ibn Abbas (RA):

“As-salamu alaikum ya ahlul-qubur! Yaghfirul-lahu lana wa lakum, antum salafuna wa nahnu bil-athar.”

The translation of this dua is: “Peace be upon you O inhabitants of the grave! May Allah forgive us and you; you are our predecessors and we are to follow you.”

Thus, we see that going to graves/graveyards is just a reminder of death and Hereafter, and to ask Allah’s blessings for the dead as well as oneself. Therefore, our visits to the graves should only be for this sake.

But, it is not so simple for women. Let us study a hadith in this context.

Abu Hurairah (RA) narrated: “Indeed Allah’s Messenger (PBUH) cursed the women who visit graves.”

(Hadith No. 1056, Chapters on Janaiz, Jami’ At-Tirmidhi, Vol. 2).

This hadith tells us that it is not allowed for women to go to graveyards. However, there is a difference of opinion among scholars on this. Some are of the view that this prohibition was during the time when the Prophet (PBUH) prohibited both men and women from going to the graveyards. However, he allowed them later. Allah-o-alam.
Praying on Graves Waseelah etc. - Right or Wrong?QUR'AN and HADITH

as to awareness in the grave this come mostly from tradition

Quote:
Sayyed ibne Taoos relates from the Holy Prophet that he said the first night in the grave is the most fearful and difficult night for the dead person, and thus Sadqa should be given for his or her safety. If this is not possible, then two units of prayer should be recited: in the first unit, after Surah al-Fatiha, recite Surah Tawheed twice, and in the second unit after Surah al-Fatiha, recite Surah Takathur ten times. After finishing the prayer, the following du'a should be recited: Allaahumma sallay a'la Muhammadinw wa aale Muhammadin wab atha thawaabaha ilaa qabre dhaalikal mayyite [name of the deceased person]. Allah will immediately send one thousand angels to the grave of the dead person with attires of Paradise, and expand his grave until Qiyamat, while for the one who performs this Salat, Allah will offer him great rewards and exalt his position forty times.

The other Salat to be recited on the first night of burial is as follows: Two rak'at Salat such that in the first rak'at after Surah al-Hamd, recite once Ayatal Kursi, and in the second rak'at after Surah al-Hamd, recite ten times Surah al-Qadr. After finishing the Salat, say: Alla humma salli 'ala Muhammadin wa Ali Muhammad wab'ath thawabaha ila qabri [name of the deceased person].
Squeeze in the Grave (Fishare Qabr)

Shaikh Kulayni has narrated from Abu Baseer that he asked Imam Sadiq (peace be upon him), "Is anybody spared from the squeezing in the grave?" The Imam replied: "May God save. Very few people escape from the pressure in the grave."

Allama Majlisi has mentioned in Bihar al-Anwar and Haqqul Yaqeen that all Muslims have the unanimously agreed belief that the squeezing in the grave and both rewards and punishments therein are true facts. He has shown through reliable traditions that it will be experienced by the same worldly body in which the deceased had lived, as will the questioning in the grave. Of course, this punishment is inflicted only on those who have earned it through their sins, and the degree of pressure will also depend on the severity if these sins.
What Happens After Death? Life in the Grave | Religion | Islamic Insights

But over all I believe the majority consensus is graves should not be disturbed.
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Old 03-09-2015, 01:23 AM
 
Location: Texas
115 posts, read 173,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
That is reflective on the Jafa'ari laws of Twelver set Shi'a of Iran. No Nation or individual is representative of anything except them self.

What verification is there that this happened as the girl is describing?

Here is a video of Tehran, Iran made 3 years ago.



 
Old 03-09-2015, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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While that was true from 1979-2012

beginning in 2012 there has been a rapid swing back to moderation.

From 2012 onward there has been a very rapid swing back to the pre Khomeni days
The video I posted was from 2012.

Here is a very recent video
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Old 03-09-2015, 07:14 PM
 
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^
Interesting post on Islam and graves. Thanks.
 
Old 03-09-2015, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
^
Interesting post on Islam and graves. Thanks.
For what it is worth, my inevitable funeral is planned out

burial to be before sunset on the day I kick the bucket

no mourners

no coffin

no marker

unidentified cemetery with the only one present being the grave digger.

low budget $200 for the hole in the ground--total price. I'm a cheap skate.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:33 AM
 
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^
Yeah we all have our way of dealing with the inevitable!....I lean to tbe 'introspective'..;-)..

"When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home"
Tecumseh
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