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Old 03-24-2015, 06:27 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha_Dog View Post
You only have to scratch the surface to see the ongoing pattern of violence and aggressive disregard for Christians that is persistent in the Muslim culture. The present attitude of Islam (especially outside the states) toward non-believers reflects the message of the Quran, which is one of superiority, arrogance, and extreme violence. Tolerance is a one way street with Islam.

The bottom line is that sixty percent of Americans have a negative impression of Islam in this country and the most current research shows that the U.S. identified more than 160 Muslim-American terrorist suspects in the 13 years since 9/11. In truth, even a tiny minority "1%" of Radical Islam worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly a insignificant number. However, the minority of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their violence, or their means of achieving this violence is far greater than 1%.

The Pew Research findings (2010) 26% of younger Muslims (18-29) in America believe suicide bombings are justified. 35% of young Muslims in Britain (18-29) believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
Pew Research (2011): 49% of Muslim-Americans say they are "Muslim first" (26% say they are American first)
Pew Research (2011): 21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their Muslim American community.
Gallup: 38.6% of all Muslims believe 9/11 attacks were justified (7% "fully", 6.5% "mostly", 23.1% "partially")


WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online

Muslim-Western Tensions Persist | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project
^^^^^^^^
This is the problem.

When any segment of society view themselves and define themselves by their religion first except if they were a priest, iman, or rabbi, there is a huge problem.

Those that are Muslim and wonder why there is so much skepticism, prejudice, and fear among other citizens in North America and Europe, these facts speak for themselves. When you have a significant minority of a subset, in this case Muslims, thinking of themselves first as Muslims than is a citizen of the country they live in, and secondly having such a substantial minority support terrorism acts, something needs to change.

If that change doesn't come from inside in a substantial way and in a very timely way, expect to have the prejudice, fears, and skepticism continue and grow.

I was not aware of the Pew surveys, but this scares the hell out of me. I did not expect to see such a high incidents of support for the terrorist acts that Muslims commit by Muslims.

Religion of peace,? That's pretty hard to swallow when such a significant minority are anything but and support anything but peace.

 
Old 03-24-2015, 10:45 AM
 
Location: SoCal - Laguna Beach, CA
449 posts, read 617,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
^^^^^^^^
This is the problem.

When any segment of society view themselves and define themselves by their religion first except if they were a priest, iman, or rabbi, there is a huge problem.

Those that are Muslim and wonder why there is so much skepticism, prejudice, and fear among other citizens in North America and Europe, these facts speak for themselves. When you have a significant minority of a subset, in this case Muslims, thinking of themselves first as Muslims than is a citizen of the country they live in, and secondly having such a substantial minority support terrorism acts, something needs to change.

If that change doesn't come from inside in a substantial way and in a very timely way, expect to have the prejudice, fears, and skepticism continue and grow.

I was not aware of the Pew surveys, but this scares the hell out of me. I did not expect to see such a high incidents of support for the terrorist acts that Muslims commit by Muslims.

Religion of peace,? That's pretty hard to swallow when such a significant minority are anything but and support anything but peace.

Exactly right. Islam can hardly be sold as “The Religion of Peace." Islam seems to be very good at distorting logic in order to maintain their strength and Muslim apologists always like to come forward to assure everyone that Islam is a peaceful religion when it obviously isn't. In every majority​ ​Muslim society, other religions are violently persecuted or banned outright and you might have noticed that the majority of violent crazed terrorists are Muslims.


The Quran says, violence is to be used against Jews and Christians unless they are willing to pay a special tax and live in subjection to Muslims as second-class citizens.

Qur’an (9:5) Kill the nonbelievers wherever you find them.

Qur’an (2:65-66) Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers.

Qur’an (5:80) Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.
 
Old 03-24-2015, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,297,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha_Dog View Post
Exactly right. Islam can hardly be sold as “The Religion of Peace." Islam seems to be very good at distorting logic in order to maintain their strength and Muslim apologists always like to come forward to assure everyone that Islam is a peaceful religion when it obviously isn't. In every majority​ ​Muslim society, other religions are violently persecuted or banned outright and you might have noticed that the majority of violent crazed terrorists are Muslims.


The Quran says, violence is to be used against Jews and Christians unless they are willing to pay a special tax and live in subjection to Muslims as second-class citizens.

Qur’an (9:5) Kill the nonbelievers wherever you find them.

Qur’an (2:65-66) Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers.

Qur’an (5:80) Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.
A bit of a strong accusation.

​Muslim society, other religions are violently persecuted or banned outright and you might have noticed that the majority of violent crazed terrorists are Muslims.

Especially when you consider that not even a Muslim can identify who is a Muslim, except by their saying they are Muslim.
I will agree that in the present era the majority of people identified as terrorists are identified as Muslims.
The question I have is: "What do they believe Islam is?"

Addressing this:
The Quran says, violence is to be used against Jews and Christians unless they are willing to pay a special tax and live in subjection to Muslims as second-class citizens.

Qur’an (9:5) Kill the nonbelievers wherever you find them.

Qur’an (2:65-66) Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers.

Qur’an (5:80) Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

It does seem to be very common for non-Muslims to believe those are commandments and not part of a much broader message.
Begining with 9:5
The full statement is 9: 1-12 which is a discourse on treaties and the rules/regulations concerning them. The full discourse contains 1-37 The Mushriks of Mecca had violated the traty and as a result were give the "4 sacred months" a full year to either accept Islam, pay the Dhimmi tax or leave Mecca.
The first discourse (vv. 1-37), was revealed in Zil-Qa'adah A. H. 9 or thereabout. As the importance of the subject of the discourse required its declaration on the occasion of Haj the Holy Prophet despatched Hadrat Ali to follow Hadrat Abu Bakr, who had already left for Makkah as leader of the Pilgrims to the Ka'abah. He instructed Hadrat Ali to deliver the discourse before the representatives of the different clans of Arabia so as to inform them of the new policy towards the mushriks.
Syed Maududi's Commentary for Surah #9
To read 9:1-12 (Assad's translation)
9:1 (Asad) DISAVOWAL by God and His Apostle [is herewith announced] unto those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God, [and] with whom you [O: believers] have made a covenant. [1]

9:2 (Asad) [Announce unto them:] "Go, then, [freely] about the earth for four months [2] -but know that you can never elude God, and that, verily, God shall bring disgrace upon all who refuse to acknowledge the truth!"

9:3 (Asad) And a proclamation from God and His Apostle [is herewith made] unto all mankind on this day of the Greatest Pilgrimage: [3] "God disavows all who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him, and [so does] His Apostle. Hence, if you repent, it shall be for your own good; and if you turn away, then know that you can never elude God!" And unto those who are bent on denying the truth give thou [O Prophet] the tiding of grievous chastisement.

9:4 (Asad) But excepted shall be [4] -from among those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God - [people] with whom you [O believers] have made a covenant and who thereafter have in no wise failed to fulfil their obligations towards you, and neither have aided anyone against you: observe, then, your covenant with them until the end of the term agreed with them. [5] Verily, God loves those who are conscious of Him.

9:5 (Asad) And so, when the sacred months are over [6] , slay those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God wherever you may come upon them, [7] and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place [8] ! Yet if they repent, and take to prayer, and render the purifying dues, let them go their way: for, behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace. [9]

9:6 (Asad) And if any of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God seeks thy protection, [10] grant him protection, so that he might [be able to] hear the word of God [from thee]; and thereupon convey him to a place where he can feel secure: [11] this, because they [may be] people who [sin only because they] do not know [the truth].

9:7 (Asad) HOW COULD they who ascribe divinity to aught beside God be granted a covenant by God and His Apostle, [12] unless it be those [of them] with whom you [O believers] have made a covenant in the vicinity of the Inviolable House of Worship? [13] [As for the latter,] so long as they remain true to you, be true to them: for, verily, God loves those who are conscious of Him.

9:8 (Asad) How [else could it be]? [14] -since, if they [who are hostile to you] were to overcome you, they would not respect any tie [with you,] nor any obligation to protect [you]. [15] They seek to please you with their mouths, the while their hearts remain averse [to you]; and most of them are iniquitous.

9:9 (Asad) God's messages have they bartered away for a trifling gain, and have thus turned away from His path: evil, behold, is all that they are wont to do,

9:10 (Asad) respecting no tie and no protective obligation with regard to a believer; and it is they, they who transgress the bounds of what is right! [16]

9:11 (Asad) Yet if they repent, and take to prayer, and render the purifying dues, they become your brethren in faith: [17] and clearly do We spell out these messages unto people of [innate] knowledge!

9:12 (Asad) But if they break their solemn pledges after having concluded a covenant, [18] and revile your religion, then fight against these archetypes of faithlessness [19] who, behold, have no [regard for their own] pledges, so that they might desist [from aggression].

9:5 is not a general command for Muslims to "Kill non-Muslims"

2: 65-66 is oart of a discourse ayyats 40-120 that was addressed specifically to the Jews of Medinah. It is basically an explanation as to how they had deviated from Jewish Scripture.
In this portion invitation to the Guidance has particularly been extended to the children of Israel and their past and present attitude has been criticised to show that the cause of their degradation was their deviation from the Guidance. 40 - 120
Syed Maududi's Commentary for Surah #2

Reading 2: 63-67
2:63 (Asad) AND LO! We accepted your solemn pledge, raising Mount Sinai high above you, [51] [and saying;] "Hold fast with [all your] strength unto what We have vouchsafed you, and bear in mind all that is therein, so that you might remain conscious of God!"

2:64 (Asad) And you turned away after that-! And had it not been for God's favour upon you and His grace, you would surely have found yourselves among the lost;

2:65 (Asad) for you are well aware of those from among you who profaned the Sabbath, whereupon We said unto them, "Be as apes despicable!"

2:66 (Asad) and set them up as a warning example for their time and for all times to come, as well as an admonition to all who are conscious of God. [52]

2:67 (Asad) AND LO! Moses said unto his people: "Behold, God bids you to sacrifice a cow." [53] They said: "Dost thou mock at us?" He answered: "I seek refuge with God against being so ignorant!" [54]
We find it is a reminder of the admonishment the Jews had received for not oberving the sabbath
Indeed, some Muslims have claimed that Jews are “pigs and monkeys,” apparently based on these verses. As horrible as their claim is, their use of the Quran is completely incorrect.

As the verses clearly show, the Quran is not saying “Jews are apes and monkeys.” In fact, there is no verse in the Quran – none – that says “Jews are apes and monkeys.” The verses above speak about the Sabbath Breakers: it was they who were turned into apes because they broke the law of the Sabbath. Commentator Muhammad Asad (a Jew who converted to Islam) explains this story:

Under Mosaic Law, they were obliged to refrain from all work – and, therefore, also from fishing – on Sabbath-days, with the result that the fish were more plentiful and would come closer to the shore on those days: and the inhabitants of the town took this as an excuse to break the Sabbath-law.
‘Islamic Jew-Hatred': It’s NOT in the Quran - Common Word, Common Lord

Looking at 5:80 the full discourse is 70-86
The theme of the corruptions of the Jews and Christians has been resumed. The Christians especially have been reproved for their errors in regard to the doctrine of Tauhid. At the same time they have been preferred to the hard hearted Jews, for there are among them some who are more inclined towards the Truth. 70 - 86
Syed Maududi's Commentary for Surah #5

Reading 5:70-86
5:70 (Asad) INDEED, We accepted a solemn pledge from the children of Israel, and We sent apostles unto them; [but] every time an apostle came unto them with anything that was not to their liking, [they rebelled:] to some of them they gave the lie, while others they would slay, [87]

5:71 (Asad) thinking that no harm would befall them; and so they became blind and deaf [of heart]. Thereafter God accepted their repentance: and again many of them became blind and deaf. But God sees all that they do.

5:72 (Asad) Indeed, the truth deny they who say, "Behold, God is the Christ, son of Mary" - seeing that the Christ [himself] said, "O children of Israel! Worship God [alone], who is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer." [88] Behold, whoever ascribes divinity to any being beside God, unto him will God deny paradise, and his goal shall be the fire: and such evildoers will have none to succour them!

5:73 (Asad) Indeed, the truth deny they who say, "Behold, God is the third of a trinity" - seeing that there is no deity whatever save the One God. And unless they desist from this their assertion, grievous suffering is bound to befall such of them as are bent on denying the truth.

5:74 (Asad) Will they not, then, turn towards God in repentance, and ask His forgiveness? For God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

5:75 (Asad) The Christ, son of Mary, was but an apostle: all [other] apostles had passed away before him; and his mother was one who never deviated from the truth; and they both ate food [like other mortals]. [89] Behold how clear We make these messages unto them: and then behold how perverted are their minds! [90]
5:76 (Asad) Say: "Would you worship, beside God, aught that has no power either to harm or to benefit you-when God alone is all-hearing, all-knowing?"

5:77 (Asad) Say: "O followers of the Gospel! Do not overstep the bounds [of truth] in your religious beliefs; [91] and do not follow the errant views of people who have gone astray aforetime, and have led many [others] astray, and are still straying from the right path." [92]

5:78 (Asad) THOSE of the children of Israel who were bent on denying the truth have [already] been cursed by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary? [93] this, because they rebelled [against God] and persisted in transgressing the bounds of what is right.

5:79 (Asad) They would not prevent one another from doing whatever hateful things they did: vile indeed was what they were wont to do!

5:80 (Asad) [And now] thou canst see many of them allying themselves with those who are bent on denying the truth! [So] vile indeed is what their passions make them do [94] that God has condemned them; and in suffering shall they abide.

5:81 (Asad) For, if they [truly] believed in God and their Prophet [95] and all that was bestowed upon him from on high, they would not take those [deniers of the truth] for their allies: but most of them are iniquitous.

5:82 (Asad) Thou wilt surely find that, of all people, the most hostile to those who believe [in this divine writ] are the Jews as well as those who are bent on ascribing divinity to aught beside God; and thou wilt surely find that, of all people, [96] they who say, "Behold, we are Christians," come closest to feeling affection for those who believe [in this divine writ]: this is so because there are priests and monks among them, and because these are not given to arrogance. [97]

5:83 (Asad) For, when they come to understand what has been bestowed from on high upon this Apostle, thou canst see their eyes overflow with tears, because they recognize something of its truth; [98] [and] they say: "O our Sustainer! We do believe; make us one, then, with all who bear witness to the truth.

5:84 (Asad) And how could we fail to believe in God and in whatever truth has come unto us, when we so fervently desire that our Sustainer count us among the righteous?"

5:85 (Asad) And for this their belief [99] God will reward them with gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide: for such is the requital of the doers of good;

5:86 (Asad) whereas they who are bent on denying the truth and giving the lie to Our messages - they are destined for the blazing fire.

Ayyat 80 is not forbidding Muslims from having Christian friends.
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:47 PM
 
Location: SoCal - Laguna Beach, CA
449 posts, read 617,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
A bit of a strong accusation.

​Muslim society, other religions are violently persecuted or banned outright and you might have noticed that the majority of violent crazed terrorists are Muslims.

Especially when you consider that not even a Muslim can identify who is a Muslim, except by their saying they are Muslim.
I will agree that in the present era the majority of people identified as terrorists are identified as Muslims.
The question I have is: "What do they believe Islam is?"

Addressing this:
The Quran says, violence is to be used against Jews and Christians unless they are willing to pay a special tax and live in subjection to Muslims as second-class citizens.

Qur’an (9:5) Kill the nonbelievers wherever you find them.

Qur’an (2:65-66) Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers.

Qur’an (5:80) Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

It does seem to be very common for non-Muslims to believe those are commandments and not part of a much broader message.
Begining with 9:5
The full statement is 9: 1-12 which is a discourse on treaties and the rules/regulations concerning them. The full discourse contains 1-37 The Mushriks of Mecca had violated the traty and as a result were give the "4 sacred months" a full year to either accept Islam, pay the Dhimmi tax or leave Mecca.
The first discourse (vv. 1-37), was revealed in Zil-Qa'adah A. H. 9 or thereabout. As the importance of the subject of the discourse required its declaration on the occasion of Haj the Holy Prophet despatched Hadrat Ali to follow Hadrat Abu Bakr, who had already left for Makkah as leader of the Pilgrims to the Ka'abah. He instructed Hadrat Ali to deliver the discourse before the representatives of the different clans of Arabia so as to inform them of the new policy towards the mushriks.
Syed Maududi's Commentary for Surah #9
To read 9:1-12 (Assad's translation)
9:1 (Asad) DISAVOWAL by God and His Apostle [is herewith announced] unto those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God, [and] with whom you [O: believers] have made a covenant. [1]

9:2 (Asad) [Announce unto them:] "Go, then, [freely] about the earth for four months [2] -but know that you can never elude God, and that, verily, God shall bring disgrace upon all who refuse to acknowledge the truth!"

9:3 (Asad) And a proclamation from God and His Apostle [is herewith made] unto all mankind on this day of the Greatest Pilgrimage: [3] "God disavows all who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him, and [so does] His Apostle. Hence, if you repent, it shall be for your own good; and if you turn away, then know that you can never elude God!" And unto those who are bent on denying the truth give thou [O Prophet] the tiding of grievous chastisement.

9:4 (Asad) But excepted shall be [4] -from among those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God - [people] with whom you [O believers] have made a covenant and who thereafter have in no wise failed to fulfil their obligations towards you, and neither have aided anyone against you: observe, then, your covenant with them until the end of the term agreed with them. [5] Verily, God loves those who are conscious of Him.


9:12 (Asad) But if they break their solemn pledges after having concluded a covenant, [18] and revile your religion, then fight against these archetypes of faithlessness [19] who, behold, have no [regard for their own] pledges, so that they might desist [from aggression].

9:5 is not a general command for Muslims to "Kill non-Muslims"

2: 65-66 is oart of a discourse ayyats 40-120 that was addressed specifically to the Jews of Medinah. It is basically an explanation as to how they had deviated from Jewish Scripture.
In this portion invitation to the Guidance has particularly been extended to the children of Israel and their past and present attitude has been criticised to show that the cause of their degradation was their deviation from the Guidance. 40 - 120
Syed Maududi's Commentary for Surah #2


2:65 (Asad) for you are well aware of those from among you who profaned the Sabbath, whereupon We said unto them, "Be as apes despicable!"

2:66 (Asad) and set them up as a warning example for their time and for all times to come, as well as an admonition to all who are conscious of God. [52]


Under Mosaic Law, they were obliged to refrain from all work – and, therefore, also from fishing – on Sabbath-days, with the result that the fish were more plentiful and would come closer to the shore on those days: and the inhabitants of the town took this as an excuse to break the Sabbath-law.
‘Islamic Jew-Hatred': It’s NOT in the Quran - Common Word, Common Lord

Looking at 5:80 the full discourse is 70-86
The theme of the corruptions of the Jews and Christians has been resumed. The Christians especially have been reproved for their errors in regard to the doctrine of Tauhid. At the same time they have been preferred to the hard hearted Jews, for there are among them some who are more inclined towards the Truth. 70 - 86
Syed Maududi's Commentary for Surah #5



Ayyat 80 is not forbidding Muslims from having Christian friends.
I believe it's Ayat with one Y noy Ayyat, no? Stunning how much misinformation can be crammed into a handful of Islamic paragraphs isn't it.

Among the major religions, Islam is by far the most violent and has been willing to employ violence on a massive scale many times over. There definitely remains a deep and powerful strain of violence and conflict within Islam that's important for Americans to fully comprehend, and lets not forget that many Muslims here in the states love to flex their legal muscle, threaten, or try to intimidate people, where they're fortunate enough to be living, and very few Muslims are uncomfortable with this blatant double standard in which Islam either plays the victim or unapologetic victimizes others - really nothing new here.

The biggest difference between the majority of other religious groups in the United States and Islam is that even though those groups/religions had their different cultures and beliefs, they also desired to be part of the American culture. Groups celebrated their backgrounds but also worked towards making this countery a better place. The Muslim ideology and values are in complete contrast to American values, there is very little blending of cultures and beliefs. Do you think that most Muslims in this country would classify themselves as American? One of the best things the U.S. can do for itself is ban all Muslim immigration until the Mormons can find the missing Golden Plates!


"O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers."
 
Old 03-25-2015, 12:14 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,297,298 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha_Dog View Post
I believe it's Ayat with one Y noy Ayyat, no? Stunning how much misinformation can be crammed into a handful of Islamic paragraphs isn't it.

Among the major religions, Islam is by far the most violent and has been willing to employ violence on a massive scale many times over. There definitely remains a deep and powerful strain of violence and conflict within Islam that's important for Americans to fully comprehend, and lets not forget that many Muslims here in the states love to flex their legal muscle, threaten, or try to intimidate people, where they're fortunate enough to be living, and very few Muslims are uncomfortable with this blatant double standard in which Islam either plays the victim or unapologetic victimizes others - really nothing new here.

The biggest difference between the majority of other religious groups in the United States and Islam is that even though those groups/religions had their different cultures and beliefs, they also desired to be part of the American culture. Groups celebrated their backgrounds but also worked towards making this countery a better place. The Muslim ideology and values are in complete contrast to American values, there is very little blending of cultures and beliefs. Do you think that most Muslims in this country would classify themselves as American? One of the best things the U.S. can do for itself is ban all Muslim immigration until the Mormons can find the missing Golden Plates!


"O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers."

Like all Arabic words the letters do not correspond with the Roman alphabet used in most of the Western World. The closest one can get is an approximation of the pronunciation. Therefore you will find many different transliteration of Arabic word

It is actually spelled as: Alef yaa Taa in Arabic. the pronunciatiation depends on the specific dialect and ranges from aayyd, to ayyat to aayaat to ayyat and more.

Very many Muslims in the US have family roots here dating back to before the American revalution and have managed to adapt to life here.
In modern times from the mid 1800s I have found that the Polish/Lithuanian Muslims (Lietuva Lipkas) have adpted so well that often their neighbors do not realize they are Muslim.

It is true that in recent rears the Muslims from the Mideast, India, Pakistan and India have pretty much settled into their own ethnic communities. but I also saw that happen with German and Italians migrating here at the end of WW2.
It seems to be normal for immigrants to settle into communities that speak the same language.

I have noticed there are American communities in non-English speaking Nations where Americans have retired in. Notably in Mexico.

as for:

"O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers."

5:51 Arabic transliteration
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la tattakhithoo alyahooda waalnnasara awliyaa baAAduhum awliyao baAAdin waman yatawallahum minkum fainnahu minhum inna Allaha la yahdee alqawma alththalimeena
note the word awliyaa which directly translates as "Their wali" plural form of wali is awliy. It is Wali being used not siddaq.

No Ayyat is a stand alone command or stement. to quote one is almost always taking it out of context. Which seems to be a favorite tactic of hate sites like wikiislam, Religion of prace, Faith Freedom etc.
to understand Surah 5 one must first know when it was revealed, who the audience was and the reason for the revelation

It was a time of tribulations. The non-Muslims had degenerated greatly and there was much animosity
ayyats 51 -69 were a single discourse and should be read as a single thought

In view of the degenerate moral condition of the Jews and the Christians, the Believers have been warned not to make them their friends and confidants. Likewise they should be on their guard against the evil designs of the hypocrites, the disbelievers and the like and should rely on the true Believers alone. The people of the Book have, in their turn been exhorted to give up their enmity and adopt the right attitude, for they cannot get salvation without this. 51 - 69

Syed Maududi's Commentary for Surah #5


It should also be noted that the word being translated to Friend is Wali not Saddiq. Saddiq corresponds to the concept of friend better. Wali while being a friend is more like being the person's religious mentor.
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Old 03-25-2015, 01:39 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
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One group of Muslims apparently advocating hate (for the Jews, America), - blown up by another group of Muslims. To any impartial observer isn't this fairly telling?

(This video was posted in the Current Events section)

Worshippers Curse America and the Jews at Moment of Houthi Mosque Bombing in Yemen
 
Old 03-25-2015, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
One group of Muslims apparently advocating hate (for the Jews, America), - blown up by another group of Muslims. To any impartial observer isn't this fairly telling?

(This video was posted in the Current Events section)

Worshippers Curse America and the Jews at Moment of Houthi Mosque Bombing in Yemen

Telling of what?
Except that every Muslim is an individual and no person or group speaks for all Muslims'

Islam is not an organization, it is an action, The action of Submitting to Allaah(swt)

A person who performs Islam is a Muslim.
Not all who wear the name of Muslim believe the same things as to what Islam is.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:36 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,505,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Telling of what?
Except that every Muslim is an individual and no person or group speaks for all Muslims'

Islam is not an organization, it is an action, The action of Submitting to Allaah(swt)

A person who performs Islam is a Muslim.
Not all who wear the name of Muslim believe the same things as to what Islam is.
Well, it's telling that there are many individuals (who in spite of their 'individuality' gather collectively to espouse aggression and hatred. It's telling that there is another group of individuals who espouse - and put in to action violence. The aforementioned individuals do it in the name of (their interpretation if you like) Islam - again and again and again.
 
Old 03-25-2015, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,297,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Well, it's telling that there are many individuals (who in spite of their 'individuality' gather collectively to espouse aggression and hatred. It's telling that there is another group of individuals who espouse - and put in to action violence. The aforementioned individuals do it in the name of (their interpretation if you like) Islam - again and again and again.
As Islam has no central leadership, no ordained clergy, no central standard teaching, nor any membership requirements, it is difficult to understand exactly what constitutes a Muslim.

Not every religion that uses the Qur'an as scripture to some extent refers to then self as Muslim
Among those that do not call them self Muslim you have:

Baha'i
Druze
Sikh
Yazidi

Now among those that call them self Muslim You have

Sunni
Which contains those that follow a Madhab and those that don't of those that claim to follow a madhab you have Maliki, Hanbali, Shafi'i. Hanafi, Wahabbi, Salafi, some Sufi and probably others
In addition a sunni can be either a Hadith accepter or a Hadith rejecter

Then you have Shi'ite which can be one of several sects the dominate one in Iran and the mideast being the 12ers

Besides Sunni and Shi'ite some other people that claim to be Muslims

Sufi--(Some Sufi claim to be Sunni, Some claim to be separate, other Sufi claim not to be Muslim)

Ahmadyyat

NOI

Isamili

others

Without knowing what flavor Muslim a person is, it is quite difficult to know what they believe Islam is.

Every person that claims to perform Islam, believes they are the only ones that actually perform Islam.
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Old 03-25-2015, 03:26 PM
 
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The world is tired of this madness, is it not?
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