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Old 01-15-2015, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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I can remember when Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Lybia. Had a considerable number of French Citizens and were popular tourist spots for French Visitors.
Never were they in any danger from Muslims. Morocco used to be a favorite country for older Frenchmen to retire in.
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Old 01-17-2015, 01:17 PM
 
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Loaded thread title.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 12:16 PM
 
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^
Definitely. Though Islam does have a grave troubling issue. Question is how far will the soul-searching go within the faithful to come to grips with its problems in the world? If France is an indication of extremist Islamic violence, it is also a testbed in trying to understand some of the important very complicated issues invloved in its formulation of terrorism as a defiant and deadly way of communication. I don't know if there is an absolute solution. But I know if it the issue is deemed intractable then world societies and Islam itself will be paying a heavy price. It can be perhaps a runaway train.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Eastern Oregon.
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Read the Koran and discover why Islam is not a peaceful religion. Here are five verses that tell Muslims what to do about unbelievers. The verses justify violent jihad.

Sura 9, verse 5, reads: "fight and slay unbelievers wherever ye find them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war. But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them . . . ."

Sura 9, verse 29, reads: "fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the 40 people of the book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Sura 5, verse 51 reads: "Oh ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends and protectors; they are but friends of protectors of each other. And he amongst you that turns to them for friendship is of them. Verily Allah guideth not the unjust."

Sura 3, verse 28, introduces the doctrine of taqiyya, which holds that Muslims should not be friends with the infidel except as deception, always with the end goal of converting, subduing, or destroying them.

Sura 5, verse 64. And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

Last edited by earl012; 01-22-2015 at 12:45 PM..
 
Old 01-22-2015, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Lizard Lick, NC
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thing is many of these radicalized Muslims are very mislead people who they themselves have minimal knowledge of islam and just join up with al Qaeda and Taliban and start supporting these radical views because they see a radical cleric with he big beard who seems to be the absolute image of what Islam is and they fall for these lies
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:35 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I can remember when Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Lybia. Had a considerable number of French Citizens and were popular tourist spots for French Visitors.
Never were they in any danger from Muslims. Morocco used to be a favorite country for older Frenchmen to retire in.
Well, so can I - and there is still tourism to some of those countries. Perhaps the difference is there was more room for secularism then (some might suggest that was more conducive to 'progress'). Now religion (Islam) is more strident. I'll take the more secularist option any day.
 
Old 01-23-2015, 09:41 AM
 
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Re: "Now religion (Islam) is more strident"

And that of course comes from the very radical side. Looks like their 'share of Islamic voice' seems to have taken over as the 'face' of Islam. Could it be fear as well percolating within Muslim states as with the Western ones?
 
Old 01-23-2015, 10:21 AM
 
Location: New York City
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I am no Muslin nor do I subscribe to any religion, but even I will admit that Islam, within itself, is not violent. The thread title is misleading and somewhat inflammatory and had a tone that leads to blanket condemnation of an entire religion. A better title would have been, “Why are some Muslims so violent?” When asked that way, then you are forced to confront a myriad of reasons why and it is NOT just because of the religion they choose to attach themselves to OR the one, in most cases, culturally conditioned to adhere to.

Now, all of that being said, many of us overlook the fact WHEN and WHERE these Abrahamic faiths were born. They were born in times of deep superstition and in a world full of violence, misogyny and patriarchal dominance. The religions were filtered through these things and it is reflected in their writings. SOME adherents find these things appealing and in rural places, still, in many ways, behind the progress of the wider world, the appeal is stronger because they are still stuck between the Bronze Age and Medieval times. The “eye for any eye” mentality is still seen as the most direct form of justice. Honor killings are still condoned and expected. The taking of multiple wives is still permitted. Marrying, what we would call children is still acceptable. Women are still subordinate. A call to arms to settle disputes is still the norm. Praying to spirits and beings that are believe to control destinies is still the norm. The religions are NOT dynamic and are, of course, static to an era and thus, the adherents have a static mentality just as their religion is. So when we find some Muslims getting their undergarments in a bunch over the slightest slight against their religion and ready to kill, maim and commit mayhem to help out their deity with his alleged thirst for vengeance, you know why.
 
Old 01-23-2015, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
Re: "Now religion (Islam) is more strident"

And that of course comes from the very radical side. Looks like their 'share of Islamic voice' seems to have taken over as the 'face' of Islam. Could it be fear as well percolating within Muslim states as with the Western ones?
Good points
What I think is the hardest thing for non-Muslim to understand about Islam, is our self responsibility instead of following earthly religious leaders.

While I am using the word "We" my views are my own and how I personally find Islam to be.

One can not look at Muslims as being a "Group" we are more individualistic. We are not very receptive of religious leaders. That may look paradoxical as the terrorist groups tend to take on a religious-like persona.

It is impossible for a Muslim to separate his religion from his life. All things we do is a prayer. The word de'en means all of how we live life and how we worship. Our life is our worship and our worship is our life. There is no separation. This goes for all people not just Muslims except many non-Muslims do not comprehend that how they live, is the true way they worship, which is much more telling then the rituals or dogma they call their religion.

In simple terms, our time in formal prayer is what is seen as our religion, but our life is the truth about how well we actually believe and practice.

Now relating this back to terrorist groups and their "clergy" the so called leaders are those who have learned how to control those that do not live a life that is in obedience of Allaah(swt)
They do attract attention and very much publicity, enough that non-Muslims believe they speak for Islam. No one person or group speaks for Islam, at best we can speak only for our self.
There is no "Face of Islam" there are the faces of 1.7 billion very individual people.
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:06 AM
 
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Interesting. If what you say is true about self-responsibility would it follow that that goes back to the problem non-Muslims feel toward Muslim 'leaders' ostensibly not coming out say 'united' as a bloc against the radicals? I'd think it less likely then that calls to unite against the extremists isn't so easily done under the circumstances.
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