U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-22-2015, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
166 posts, read 362,458 times
Reputation: 216

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You and I seem to differ considerably in our interpretations of the Qur'an.
For the past nine years I have been either reading or listening to one Juz of the Qur'an daily--Which means I read or listen to the entire Qur'an every 30 days--108 times in the past 9 years.
I still can not find where I am commanded to kill non-Muslims, over throw the government and not have non-Muslim friends
Someone posted these verses in this thread, it seems pretty clear to me what they mean:

Quote:
Sura 9, verse 5, reads: "fight and slay unbelievers wherever ye find them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war. But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them . . . ."

Sura 9, verse 29, reads: "fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the 40 people of the book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Sura 5, verse 51 reads: "Oh ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends and protectors; they are but friends of protectors of each other. And he amongst you that turns to them for friendship is of them. Verily Allah guideth not the unjust."

Sura 3, verse 28, introduces the doctrine of taqiyya, which holds that Muslims should not be friends with the infidel except as deception, always with the end goal of converting, subduing, or destroying them.

Sura 5, verse 64. And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

 
Old 06-22-2015, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masika View Post
Someone posted these verses in this thread, it seems pretty clear to me what they mean:
Quote:
Sura 9, verse 5, reads: "fight and slay unbelievers wherever ye find them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war. But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them . . . ."

Sura 9, verse 29, reads: "fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the 40 people of the book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Sura 5, verse 51 reads: "Oh ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends and protectors; they are but friends of protectors of each other. And he amongst you that turns to them for friendship is of them. Verily Allah guideth not the unjust."

Sura 3, verse 28, introduces the doctrine of taqiyya, which holds that Muslims should not be friends with the infidel except as deception, always with the end goal of converting, subduing, or destroying them.

Sura 5, verse 64. And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.
The two ayyats from Surah 9 are taken out of context. When read as a full paragraph the meaning is much clearer. I personally find Assad to be the most accurate Translation to Modern English. The French is also a good translation. I'll use Assad and Maududi's Commentary

Because the explanations are lebgthy I will only address Surah 9 in this post and try to come back to the others as time permits.

9:1 (Asad) DISAVOWAL by God and His Apostle [is herewith announced] unto those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God, [and] with whom you [O: believers] have made a covenant. [1]

9:2 (Asad) [Announce unto them:] "Go, then, [freely] about the earth for four months [2] -but know that you can never elude God, and that, verily, God shall bring disgrace upon all who refuse to acknowledge the truth!"

9:3 (Asad) And a proclamation from God and His Apostle [is herewith made] unto all mankind on this day of the Greatest Pilgrimage: [3] "God disavows all who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him, and [so does] His Apostle. Hence, if you repent, it shall be for your own good; and if you turn away, then know that you can never elude God!" And unto those who are bent on denying the truth give thou [O Prophet] the tiding of grievous chastisement.

9:4 (Asad) But excepted shall be [4] -from among those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God - [people] with whom you [O believers] have made a covenant and who thereafter have in no wise failed to fulfil their obligations towards you, and neither have aided anyone against you: observe, then, your covenant with them until the end of the term agreed with them. [5] Verily, God loves those who are conscious of Him.

9:5 (Asad) And so, when the sacred months are over [6] , slay those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God wherever you may come upon them, [7] and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place [8] ! Yet if they repent, and take to prayer, and render the purifying dues, let them go their way: for, behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace. [9]

9:6 (Asad) And if any of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God seeks thy protection, [10] grant him protection, so that he might [be able to] hear the word of God [from thee]; and thereupon convey him to a place where he can feel secure: [11] this, because they [may be] people who [sin only because they] do not know [the truth].

9:7 (Asad) HOW COULD they who ascribe divinity to aught beside God be granted a covenant by God and His Apostle, [12] unless it be those [of them] with whom you [O believers] have made a covenant in the vicinity of the Inviolable House of Worship? [13] [As for the latter,] so long as they remain true to you, be true to them: for, verily, God loves those who are conscious of Him.

9:8 (Asad) How [else could it be]? [14] -since, if they [who are hostile to you] were to overcome you, they would not respect any tie [with you,] nor any obligation to protect [you]. [15] They seek to please you with their mouths, the while their hearts remain averse [to you]; and most of them are iniquitous.

9:9 (Asad) God's messages have they bartered away for a trifling gain, and have thus turned away from His path: evil, behold, is all that they are wont to do,

9:10 (Asad) respecting no tie and no protective obligation with regard to a believer; and it is they, they who transgress the bounds of what is right! [16]

9:11 (Asad) Yet if they repent, and take to prayer, and render the purifying dues, they become your brethren in faith: [17] and clearly do We spell out these messages unto people of [innate] knowledge!

9:12 (Asad) But if they break their solemn pledges after having concluded a covenant, [18] and revile your religion, then fight against these archetypes of faithlessness [19] who, behold, have no [regard for their own] pledges, so that they might desist [from aggression].

9:13 (Asad) Would you, perchance, fail to fight against people who have broken their solemn pledges, and have done all that they could to drive the Apostle away, [20] and have been first to attack you? Do you hold them in awe? Nay, it is God alone of whom you ought to stand in awe, [21] if you are [truly] believers!

9:14 (Asad) Fight against them! God will chastise them by your hands, and will bring disgrace upon them, and will succour you against them; and He will soothe the bosoms of those who believe,

9:15 (Asad) and will remove the wrath that is in their hearts. And God will turn in His mercy unto whom He wills: [22] for, God is all-knowing, wise.

9:16 (Asad) Do you [O believers] think that you will be spared [23] unless God takes cognizance of your having striven hard [in His cause] [24] without seeking help from any but God and His Apostle and those who believe in Him? [25] For, God is aware of all that you do.

9:17 (Asad) IT IS NOT for those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God to visit or tend [26] God's houses of worship, the while [by their beliefs] they bear witness against themselves that they are denying the truth. It is they whose works shall come to nought, and they who in the fire shall abide [27]

9:18 (Asad) Only he should visit or tend God's houses of worship who believes in God and the Last Day, and is constant in prayer, and spends in charity, and stands in awe of none but God: for [only such as] these may hope to be among the right-guided! [28]

9:19 (Asad) Do you, perchance, regard the [mere] giving of water to pilgrims and the tending of the Inviolable House of Worship as being equal to [the works of] one who believes in God and the Last Day and strives hard in God's cause? These [things] are not equal in the sight of God. [29] And God does not grace with His guidance people who [deliberately] do wrong.

9:20 (Asad) Those who believe, and who have forsaken the domain of evil [30] and have striven hard in God's cause with their possessions and their lives have the highest rank in the sight of God; and it is they, they who shall triumph [in the end]!

9:21 (Asad) Their Sustainer gives them the glad tiding of the grace [that flows] from Him, and of [His] goodly acceptance, and of the gardens which await them, full of lasting bliss,

9:22 (Asad) therein to abide beyond the count of time. Verily, with God is a mighty reward!

9:23 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take your fathers and your brothers for allies if a denial of the truth is dearer to them than faith: for those of you who ally themselves with them-it is they, they who are evildoers! [31]

9:24 (Asad) Say: "If your fathers and your sons and your brothers and your spouses and your clan, and the worldly goods which you have acquired, and the commerce whereof you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you take pleasure - [if all these] are dearer to you than God and His Apostle and the struggle in His cause, then wait until God makes manifest His will; [32] and [know that] God does not grace iniquitous folk with His guidance."

9:25 (Asad) Indeed, God has succoured you on many battlefields, [when you were few;] and [He did so, too,] on the Day of Hunayn, when you took pride in your great numbers and they proved of no avail whatever to you -for the earth, despite all its vastness, became [too] narrow for you and you turned back, retreating: [33]
9:26 (Asad) whereupon God bestowed from on high His [gift of] inner peace upon His Apostle and upon the believers, and bestowed [upon you] from on high forces which you could not see, [34] and chastised those who were bent on denying the truth: for such is the recompense of all who deny the truth!

9:27 (Asad) But with all this , [35] God will turn in His mercy unto whom He wills: for God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace. [36]

9:28 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! Those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God are nothing but impure: [37] and so they shall not approach the Inviolable House of Worship from this year onwards [38] And should you fear poverty, then [know that] in time God will enrich you out of His bounty, if He so wills: [39] for, verily, God is all-knowing, wise!

9:29 (Asad) [And] fight against those who - despite having been vouchsafed revelation [aforetime] [40] -do not [truly] believe either in God or the Last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, [41] and do not follow the religion of truth [which God has enjoined upon them] [42] till they [agree to] pay the exemption tax with a willing hand, after having been humbled [in war]. [43]

Maududi explains it clearer than I can

Name

This Surah is known by two names -- AT-TAUBAH and AL-BARA'AT. It is called AT-TAUBAH because it enunciates the nature of taubah (repentance) and mentions the conditions of its acceptance.(vv. 102. 118). The second name BARA' AT (Release) is taken from the first word of the Surah. Why
Omission of Bismillah

This is the only Surah of the Quran to which Bismillah is not prefixed. Though the commentators have given different reasons for this, the correct one that which has been given by Imam Razi: namely,this is because the Holy Prophet himself did not dictate it at the beginning of the Surah. Therefore the Companions did not prefix it and their successors followed them., This is a further proof of the fact that utmost care has been taken to keep the Quran intact so that it should remain in its complete and original form.
Discourses and Periods of Revelation

This Surah comprises three discourses:-

The first discourse (vv. 1-37), was revealed in Zil-Qa'adah A. H. 9 or thereabout. As the importance of the subject of the discourse required its declaration on the occasion of Haj the Holy Prophet despatched Hadrat Ali to follow Hadrat Abu Bakr, who had already left for Makkah as leader of the Pilgrims to the Ka'abah. He instructed Hadrat Ali to deliver the discourse before the representatives of the different clans of Arabia so as to inform them of the new policy towards the mushriks.

Subject: Problems of Peace and War

In continuation of Surah AL-ANFAL, this Surah also deals with the problems of peace and war and bases the theme on the Tabuk Expedition.
Topics and their Interconnection

This portion deals with the sanctity of treaties and lays down principles, rules and regulations which must be kept in view before breaking them, in case the other party does not observe them sincerely. 1 - 12

In this portion the Muslims have been urged to fight in the Way of Allah with the mushrik Arabs, the Jews and the Christians, who were duly warned of the consequences of their mischievous and inimical behaviour. 13 - 37

SOURCE
Syed Maududi's Commentary for Surah #9

This was an era of war. This portion of the Surah deals with broken treaties and stern warning that violation of the treaies will not be tolerated.

This is not a command for Muslims to harm non-Muslims as many hate sites portray it to be. It is a lesson that all treaties are to be honored by both Muslims and non-Muslims.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
 
Old 06-22-2015, 10:20 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,086,833 times
Reputation: 4527
YWoodrow, with all respect, and I truly mean that, your "out of context" comment sounds as insincere and dodging the point as when Christian apologists make the same comment.

Rather than dissecting word by word the original premise and your response to it, perhaps it would be best said that if the prophets of the Old Testament, Jesus of the New Testament, and Muhammad of the Quran, were clear in what words meant, and that apologists could not just use the excuse that they are addressing the local population, it might be more believable.

If all these profits were to be speaking to all mankind, then one would think that the God or Allah who was talking to them would make sure that all mankind could clearly understand what was being said and that it meant the same thing in all languages. Instead what we see is a cacophony of poetic and idiomatic outlines that may not make sense in a different language or culture, and as such one really has to question is there a God that is actually speaking?

Or is it the thrust of the person who says they are the Prophet, to control the populations they are addressing? It certainly seems the latter because one always hears the out of context line.
 
Old 06-22-2015, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The two ayyats from Surah 9 are taken out of context. When read as a full paragraph the meaning is much clearer. I personally find Assad to be the most accurate Translation to Modern English. The French is also a good translation. I'll use Assad and Maududi's Commentary

This was an era of war. This portion of the Surah deals with broken treaties and stern warning that violation of the treaies will not be tolerated.

This is not a command for Muslims to harm non-Muslims as many hate sites portray it to be. It is a lesson that all treaties are to be honored by both Muslims and non-Muslims.
The terrible evils committed by SOME Muslims around the world is very factual and evident. What is the cause of this?

These 'some' Muslims claimed they are obeying the commands of God as stated in the Quran and as explained/expounded in the Hadiths and Sira. Btw, they are interpreting the words of Allah from Arabic. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has a degree, MA and PhD is Islamic studies.
Sidelining these 'some' Muslims as a bunch of lunatics do not hold water anymore. ISIS is a large nation and 1% of 1.5 b Muslims is 15 million.

There is no central authority in Islam. Therefore who are you or anyone [even other experts] else to tell them that their interpretations are wrong and after all it is God who decide on Judgment day but the reality is violence by SOME Muslims are raging on a daily [almost] basis.

Assad's interpretation is way off from the average and many common English interpretations.
Note his interpretation of 9:5 from others;
at-Taubah 9:5

Assad and others [note the Ahmadiyya and Sufi Quran] are the exceptions because they are better human beings who decide to interpret the Quran mildly [off tangent at times] in their own initiative but it is different from that of the norm. Whilst they are good human beings, they are actually taking it out of context from the norm and the ethos of the Quran.

Whilst 99% of Muslim are generally good, they must recognize there is something malignant within the Quran and its ethos. By trying to be an ostrich to it or whitewashing it is tantamount to being complicit to the terrible evils committed by the extremists who also relied on the same Quran.

Last edited by Continuum; 06-22-2015 at 10:51 PM..
 
Old 06-22-2015, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
YWoodrow, with all respect, and I truly mean that, your "out of context" comment sounds as insincere and dodging the point as when Christian apologists make the same comment.

Rather than dissecting word by word the original premise and your response to it, perhaps it would be best said that if the prophets of the Old Testament, Jesus of the New Testament, and Muhammad of the Quran, were clear in what words meant, and that apologists could not just use the excuse that they are addressing the local population, it might be more believable.

If all these profits were to be speaking to all mankind, then one would think that the God or Allah who was talking to them would make sure that all mankind could clearly understand what was being said and that it meant the same thing in all languages. Instead what we see is a cacophony of poetic and idiomatic outlines that may not make sense in a different language or culture, and as such one really has to question is there a God that is actually speaking?

Or is it the thrust of the person who says they are the Prophet, to control the populations they are addressing? It certainly seems the latter because one always hears the out of context line.
I think if you go to any of the hate site you will find many if not most attempt to present "single" ayyats (verses) as if they are complete thoughts and commands. that is what appears to be deliberate attempts to give a false interpretation.

As every Muslim will serve as Imam at any point in their life nearly all of us know that when reciting from the Qur'an we need to recite a minimum of 9 lines or the complete surah if it is one of the shorted Surah.

As to the Qur'an. there is no obligation to read the Qur'an to be a Muslim, although there are always blessings and benefits for learning as much as we are capable of learning.

Yes it is initially difficult to learn Qur'anic Arabic, even for native Arab speakers and the Tajweed of the Qur'an has no resemblance to any Arabic dialect. It is true arabic has many words that have no English equivelance For example the word Kawah can mean the color Black, hot, bitter taste or the drink coffee depending upon the context of the chapter. the Qur'an uses the word Wali in Surah 5. not saddiq, There is no restriction any where in the Qur'an as to have a non-Muslim as a saddiq. However since we are to depend upon a wali to protect us and guide us in Islam we are advised to only have a knowledgeble Muslim as a Wali.

there are 5 things we as Muslims are obligated to do, those being:

5 pillars of Islam
1) The Testimony of Faith:
The testimony of faith is saying with conviction, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah.” This saying means “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah),1 and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” The first part, “There is no true god but God,” means that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone, and that God has neither partner nor son. This testimony of faith is called the Shahada, a simple formula which should be said with conviction

2) Prayer:
Muslims perform five prayers a day. Each prayer does not take more than a few minutes to perform. Prayer in Islam is a direct link between the worshipper and God. There are no intermediaries between God and the worshipper.
In prayer, a person feels inner happiness, peace, and comfort, and that God is pleased with him or her. The Prophet Muhammad said: {Bilal, call (the people) to prayer, let us be comforted by it.}2 Bilal was one of Muhammad’s companions who was charged to call the people to prayers.
Prayers are performed at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night. A Muslim may pray almost anywhere, such as in fields, offices, factories, or universities.

3) Giving Zakat (Support of the Needy):
All things belong to God, and wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The original meaning of the word zakat is both ‘purification’ and ‘growth.’ Giving zakat means ‘giving a specified percentage on certain properties to certain classes of needy people.’ The percentage which is due on gold, silver, and cash funds that have reached the amount of about 85 grams of gold and held in possession for one lunar year is two and a half percent. Our possessions are purified by setting aside a small portion for those in need, and, like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.
A person may also give as much as he or she pleases as voluntary alms or charity.

4) Fasting the Month of Ramadan:
Every year in the month of Ramadan,4 all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown, abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations.
Although the fast is beneficial to health, it is regarded principally as a method of spiritual self-purification. By cutting oneself off from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person gains true sympathy with those who go hungry, as well as growth in his or her spiritual life.

5) The Pilgrimage to Makkah:
The annual pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah is an obligation once in a lifetime for those who are physically and financially able to perform it. About two million people go to Makkah each year from every corner of the globe. Although Makkah is always filled with visitors, the annual Hajj is performed in the twelfth month of the Islamic calendar. Male pilgrims wear special simple clothes which strip away distinctions of class and culture so that all stand equal before God.

Yes it is Sunnah to always strive to learn as much about Islam as we can, but it is not held against us if we don't. but we anticipate blessings for learning as much as we can.

we are not obligated to read the Qur'an, but it is a blessing if we do

We are not obligated to read the Ahadith, but it is a blessing if we do

We are not obligated to learn Qur'anic Arabic, but it is a blessing if we do.

Context is extremely important in Arabic as the meaning of a word will change considerably if a preceding or proceeding line is omitted. Arabic like Hebrew is generally written with just the root letters of a word. To understand which word is intended one needs to read several lines and comprehend how they relate to each other.

Yet in spite of all this difficulty the basic message of the Qur'an is very easy to understand. That being Surah al-Ikhlaas (Often called the heart of the Qur'an)

1. Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allah, (the) One.2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."




That is the entire Qur'an in summary, everything else is just the hows and whys of why we should believe such.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
 
Old 06-23-2015, 12:09 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,086,833 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I think if you go to any of the hate site you will find many if not most attempt to present "single" ayyats (verses) as if they are complete thoughts and commands. that is what appears to be deliberate attempts to give a false interpretation.

As every Muslim will serve as Imam at any point in their life nearly all of us know that when reciting from the Qur'an we need to recite a minimum of 9 lines or the complete surah if it is one of the shorted Surah.

As to the Qur'an. there is no obligation to read the Qur'an to be a Muslim, although there are always blessings and benefits for learning as much as we are capable of learning.

Yes it is initially difficult to learn Qur'anic Arabic, even for native Arab speakers and the Tajweed of the Qur'an has no resemblance to any Arabic dialect. It is true arabic has many words that have no English equivelance For example the word Kawah can mean the color Black, hot, bitter taste or the drink coffee depending upon the context of the chapter. the Qur'an uses the word Wali in Surah 5. not saddiq, There is no restriction any where in the Qur'an as to have a non-Muslim as a saddiq. However since we are to depend upon a wali to protect us and guide us in Islam we are advised to only have a knowledgeble Muslim as a Wali.

there are 5 things we as Muslims are obligated to do, those being:

5 pillars of Islam
1) The Testimony of Faith:
The testimony of faith is saying with conviction, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah.” This saying means “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah),1 and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” The first part, “There is no true god but God,” means that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone, and that God has neither partner nor son. This testimony of faith is called the Shahada, a simple formula which should be said with conviction

2) Prayer:
Muslims perform five prayers a day. Each prayer does not take more than a few minutes to perform. Prayer in Islam is a direct link between the worshipper and God. There are no intermediaries between God and the worshipper.
In prayer, a person feels inner happiness, peace, and comfort, and that God is pleased with him or her. The Prophet Muhammad said: {Bilal, call (the people) to prayer, let us be comforted by it.}2 Bilal was one of Muhammad’s companions who was charged to call the people to prayers.
Prayers are performed at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night. A Muslim may pray almost anywhere, such as in fields, offices, factories, or universities.

3) Giving Zakat (Support of the Needy):
All things belong to God, and wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The original meaning of the word zakat is both ‘purification’ and ‘growth.’ Giving zakat means ‘giving a specified percentage on certain properties to certain classes of needy people.’ The percentage which is due on gold, silver, and cash funds that have reached the amount of about 85 grams of gold and held in possession for one lunar year is two and a half percent. Our possessions are purified by setting aside a small portion for those in need, and, like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.
A person may also give as much as he or she pleases as voluntary alms or charity.

4) Fasting the Month of Ramadan:
Every year in the month of Ramadan,4 all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown, abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations.
Although the fast is beneficial to health, it is regarded principally as a method of spiritual self-purification. By cutting oneself off from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person gains true sympathy with those who go hungry, as well as growth in his or her spiritual life.

5) The Pilgrimage to Makkah:
The annual pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah is an obligation once in a lifetime for those who are physically and financially able to perform it. About two million people go to Makkah each year from every corner of the globe. Although Makkah is always filled with visitors, the annual Hajj is performed in the twelfth month of the Islamic calendar. Male pilgrims wear special simple clothes which strip away distinctions of class and culture so that all stand equal before God.

Yes it is Sunnah to always strive to learn as much about Islam as we can, but it is not held against us if we don't. but we anticipate blessings for learning as much as we can.

we are not obligated to read the Qur'an, but it is a blessing if we do

We are not obligated to read the Ahadith, but it is a blessing if we do

We are not obligated to learn Qur'anic Arabic, but it is a blessing if we do.

Context is extremely important in Arabic as the meaning of a word will change considerably if a preceding or proceeding line is omitted. Arabic like Hebrew is generally written with just the root letters of a word. To understand which word is intended one needs to read several lines and comprehend how they relate to each other.

Yet in spite of all this difficulty the basic message of the Qur'an is very easy to understand. That being Surah al-Ikhlaas (Often called the heart of the Qur'an)

1. Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allah, (the) One.2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."




That is the entire Qur'an in summary, everything else is just the hows and whys of why we should believe such.
So how does this address my point that if the God or Allah was talking to all people of the world, that they didn't ensure that their messengers were able to put things down in the manner that everyone could understand, and that everyone would get the same understanding without the need for interpretation?

That is the weakness in the Abrahamic religions. They claim that the message is to all people, however, the way it is presented in the holy books can be interpreted many different ways as we all know.

My question again is why have the God or Allah not ensured that the message was clear to everyone, rather than just to the local population.
 
Old 06-23-2015, 07:05 AM
 
67 posts, read 40,755 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
So how does this address my point that if the God or Allah was talking to all people of the world, that they didn't ensure that their messengers were able to put things down in the manner that everyone could understand, and that everyone would get the same understanding without the need for interpretation?

That is the weakness in the Abrahamic religions. They claim that the message is to all people, however, the way it is presented in the holy books can be interpreted many different ways as we all know.

My question again is why have the God or Allah not ensured that the message was clear to everyone, rather than just to the local population.
Haven't you read Genesis: GOD saith, then there were all kinds?
 
Old 06-23-2015, 07:39 AM
 
352 posts, read 308,098 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
So how does this address my point that if the God or Allah was talking to all people of the world, that they didn't ensure that their messengers were able to put things down in the manner that everyone could understand, and that everyone would get the same understanding without the need for interpretation?

That is the weakness in the Abrahamic religions. They claim that the message is to all people, however, the way it is presented in the holy books can be interpreted many different ways as we all know.

My question again is why have the God or Allah not ensured that the message was clear to everyone, rather than just to the local population.


Quote:
Truly I say to you, that every prophet when he is come has borne to one nation only the mark of the mercy of God. And so their words were not extended save to that people to which they were sent. But the Messenger of God, when he shall come, God shall give to him as it were the seal of his hand, insomuch that he shall carry salvation and mercy to all the nations of the world that shall receive his doctrine. He shall come with power upon the ungodly, and shall destroy idolatry, insomuch that he shall make Satan confounded; for so promised God to Abraham, saying: "Behold, in your seed I will bless all the tribes of the earth; and as you have broken in pieces the idols, O Abraham; even so shall your seed do." Chapter 43 The Gospel of Barnabas

Quote:
Jesus answered in parable: "A man goes to fish with a net, and therein he catches many fishes, but those that are bad he throws away.' A man went forth to sow, but only the grain that falls on good ground bears seed.' Even so ought you to do, listening to all and receiving only the truth, seeing that the truth alone bears fruit to eternal life." Chapter 124 The Gospel of Barnabas


Wassalaam. devotee
 
Old 06-23-2015, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
So how does this address my point that if the God or Allah was talking to all people of the world, that they didn't ensure that their messengers were able to put things down in the manner that everyone could understand, and that everyone would get the same understanding without the need for interpretation?

That is the weakness in the Abrahamic religions. They claim that the message is to all people, however, the way it is presented in the holy books can be interpreted many different ways as we all know.

My question again is why have the God or Allah not ensured that the message was clear to everyone, rather than just to the local population.
There has always been just one message a very simple message. That being what I quoted from Surah Ikhlaas.

There is only one God(swt). He has no equal, no needs and no partners or progeny.

Only He is worthy of Worship as only he is capable of creating.

Everything else in all of the scritptures, the Torah, The Psalms, The Gospel of Jesus and the Qur'an reiterate it and give reasons why we should believe that to be true.

The Scriptures while for all people are also stories of the difficulties the Propher's (PBUT) faced and the examples of those that refused to listen to that simple lesson.

Guidance does not come from "Rules" it comes from Example.


Although the same message was given to Prophets(PBUT) in all languages and all nations the only ones we have knowledge of are the Torah, Psalms, Injeel (Gospel of Jesus--not to be confused with Mark, Matthew, Luke and John) and the Qur'an. Only the Qur'an remains in it's actual original words. (Only the Arabic as passed down through the Hafiz is the Actual Qur'an)

None of us has to understand the full Qur'an, there are things in it some of us will never understand, but we all can easily understand that which we need to understand.We each should grasp to understand as much as we are capable of learning. One big error I find many people, including some Muslims is the assumption the Qur'an is a book of rules and things we must do and things we must not do. It is very far from being that type of guide

I find what I believe are excellent guidelines in understanding the Qur'an. Something I urge Muslims and Muslims alike to learn if they are attempting to understand the Qur'an

Quote:
t is indeed very important for both new Muslims and Muslim-enthusiasts to get a better understanding of the message of the Quran. This helps new Muslims to relate to their new faith, and Muslim-enthusiasts to get a better first hand idea of the basic concepts of Islam as a universal message and a balanced way of life.


To do this, here are some general guidelines, and please feel free to write again and give us your impressions and feedback:


1- Find a good translation in a language you understand well. For English speakers, I recommend Professor Mohamed Abdel Halim's Modern English Translation, published by Oxford University Press.


Always bear in mind that reading the Quran in any other language than its original Arabic is only an explanation of the meaning and not the exact text, simply because it is impossible to reproduce the same literary experience in any other language.


Dr. Mostafa Mahmoud describes the Quranic style:


There is no end rhyme to help the verbal pattern, nor is the Quran written in verse. The prose, however, is so unique that one can detect a law of verbal architecture that governs its internal music pattern. It remains impossible to imitate the structural and rhetorical brilliance of the Quran. (Chapter 1)


2- Listen to a recitation of the Quran from an experienced reciter, even if you do not understand. It is important to get the feeling of the original text, and it is mesmerizing to hear its unusual music. If this is your first encounter with the Quran, plan two consecutive readings: a first quick and general reading to get the big ideas, then a second more thorough reading to delve deeper and get a much closer look.


3- Start your first reading with a neutral frame of mind. Approaching the Quran with a pre-conceived perception will only slow your progress and color your understanding of its true message, resulting in a confused impression. Consult your own open heart and mind in the first reading, and not other people's opinions, whether from classical books or from the mainstream media.


The Quran reaches straight into your soul if you let it, so please allow yourself the experience. Dr. Mohamed Enani writes: "The Quran speaks the language of the human heart wherever humans are found and whatever the age they live in; it is a universal language rooted deep in human's natural constitution". (Mahmoud XVII)


4- Don't be afraid to question or even challenge what you read. The Quran actually invites the reader to do just that, as long as you diligently and earnestly try to find the answers, because in the process, you end up re-discovering yourself.


This rewarding journey of mental and spiritual growth is described in the works of many prominent western Muslims such as American professor of mathematics Jeffrey Lang, who was challenging the Quran as a fierce atheist, yet couldn't help but surrender to it eventually. He writes of his first reading:


You cannot simply read the Quran, not if you take it seriously. You either have surrendered to it already or you fight it. It attacks tenaciously, directly, personally; it debates, criticizes, shames, and challenges. From the outset it draws the line of battle, and I was on the other side. I was at a severe disadvantage, for it became clear that the Author knew me better than I knew myself. The Quran was always way ahead of my thinking; it was erasing barriers I had built years ago and was addressing my queries. (9)


5- Allow yourself time to contemplate. Don't read the Quran like you read the newspaper, rather, read it as a direct message from God Himself to you in particular. When you read verses where God talks to the reader in the first person, stop and let the message sink in. Then think of yourself and your life in relation to this divine communication. Think of how you could put it to good use to adjust your convictions and behavior.


When you read stories about previous nations, find contemporary parallels and try to draw the lessons. When you read about God's magnificent creations, think of educating yourself about nature and showing gratitude to Him through respecting life and natural resources.


Think of the Quran as a dialogue or a conversation rather than a one-way communication of do's and don'ts. Be brave enough to provide the honest answers to the questions your heart and mind will throw at you while you read.
How Can New Muslims Understand the Quran? - Qur'an & Scriptures - counsels - OnIslam.net
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
 
Old 06-23-2015, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
This is not a command for Muslims to harm non-Muslims as many hate sites portray it to be. It is a lesson that all treaties are to be honored by both Muslims and non-Muslims.
I do not agree with the term 'hate' that most Muslims attribute to sites that expose the truths about Islam [in part].

Some of the sites that expose [with evidences, proofs and justifications] the ugly truths about certain [not all] aspect [the violent ones -OP] of Islam may be over-zealous, some are very angry [because they have experienced the evil of Islam] and for other various rational reasons. I don't deny some are extreme and they should be condemned and corrected.
From what I noted and read of them, most of these so-called 'hate' sites are exposing the truths [albeit ugly] on certain [not all] aspect of Islam evidences, proofs and rational arguments.

IMO, most Muslims [and their apologists] labeled those sites with the term "hate" and "Islamophobic" to merely deflect and cover their own guilt of the truth that their 'Islam' do in fact has 'negative' elements as proven by the terrible evil acts committed by SOME Muslims who attempt to be truer Muslims.

Note a point from Aristotle on 'hate'.
As a serious issue and philosophical perspective, 'hate' is more appropriately tacked with things of human nature that cannot be changed easily.
For example 'race' [color] as represented by one's DNA which cannot be changed easily.
Religion is a matter that is open to choice and many has changed to other religion or got out of religion. Thus to critique a religion especially with facts, truths which are supported by proofs, evidence and rational argument, it is wrong to accuse those sites as 'hate' sites.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top