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Old 07-13-2015, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Here is an article with quoted cases on how Law on Rape were loosely implemented when influenced by Quranic and Hadiths verses.

An Islamic Critique of the Rape Laws of Pakistan
from a Woman-Sensitive Perspective


A. Power of Law: The Zina Ordinance and its Application in Pakistan
When this law was enacted in 1977, proponents argued that it enacted the Islamic law of illegal sexual relations. The accuracy of that claim is addressed in detail later.4 First, it is important to note that the application of the Zina Ordinance in Pakistan has placed a new twist and a renewed urgency on the question of its validity. The twist is this: when a zina-bil-jabr case fails for lack of four witnesses, the Pakistani legal system has more than once concluded that the intercourse was therefore consensual, and consequently has charged rape victims with zina.

Article: Asifa Quraishi - "Her Honor: An Islamic Critique of the Rape Laws of Pakistan from a Woman-Sensitive Perspective"

 
Old 07-13-2015, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your arguments are full of holes.

Juju has provided actual verses in the Quran that pointed to the support for 'rape' of captive slaves, e.g. 4:24 and 33:50. You provided none at all.
In addition juju provided a long list of verses from the Hadiths that supported rape.

However you provided a vague verse from the Hadiths. What the man did in that Hadiths did not satisfy the conditions of 'rape' as indicated in the Quran and Hadiths. That was why he was punished. If he had done that in the same conditions as the 'approved' conditions, he would not be punished, e.g. have sex [forced or otherwise] with captives slaves [e.g. ISIS, Boko Haram, etc.], wives, slaves-right hand possessed, child-wives, and the likes.

It is obvious a Muslim will be punished for rape [proven] if he merely jumped on any woman in conditions that are not authorized within the conditions of the Quranic verses and approved Hadiths.

Saudi Arabia? there are many unpleasant stories coming from that Nation regarding rape and punishments. What is critical are the Sharia courts in many Muslims nations where the judges are heavily influenced by the Quranic and Hadiths verses.
This is my problem--

Quote:
Juju has provided actual verses in the Quran that pointed to the support for 'rape' of captive slaves, e.g. 4:24 and 33:50. You provided none at all.
In addition juju provided a long list of verses from the Hadiths that supported rape.
for an old man with severe memory issues-- a long list is overwhelming and I find it impossible to concentrate on addressing it. My mental abilities these days are often limited to short single topic posts.
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Here is an article with quoted cases on how Law on Rape were loosely implemented when influenced by Quranic and Hadiths verses.

An Islamic Critique of the Rape Laws of Pakistan
from a Woman-Sensitive Perspective


A. Power of Law: The Zina Ordinance and its Application in Pakistan
When this law was enacted in 1977, proponents argued that it enacted the Islamic law of illegal sexual relations. The accuracy of that claim is addressed in detail later.4 First, it is important to note that the application of the Zina Ordinance in Pakistan has placed a new twist and a renewed urgency on the question of its validity. The twist is this: when a zina-bil-jabr case fails for lack of four witnesses, the Pakistani legal system has more than once concluded that the intercourse was therefore consensual, and consequently has charged rape victims with zina.

Article: Asifa Quraishi - "Her Honor: An Islamic Critique of the Rape Laws of Pakistan from a Woman-Sensitive Perspective"
Pakistan is making the error of trying to appease 2 factions the secular and the Religious fundementalist and not serving either justly

Sharia and Secular are not compatible as a single legal system If Sharia is to be used it must be in accordance with a Madhab and applicable only to the Muslim population.
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:02 AM
 
Location: SoCal - Laguna Beach, CA
448 posts, read 615,898 times
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Muslim Barbarians will find out that there will not be 72 virgins and sensual delights waiting for them at the end, instead there will be harsh judgement and extreme punishment, they will be cast in hell for eternity for their crimes against humanity. The Koran is from Satan, it comes 610 years after Christianity, and the old Testament bible Torah is written more than 3000 years before that. And no religion other than Islam directs the killing of it's own followers who want to leave this extremely violent religion after experiencing it's demonic and regressive nature. Not even modern day Mormonism or L. Ron's pack of nonsense can claim this.

Christianity is a religion where God sends his own son to die for your sins. Islam is the religion where Allah wants you to die for him and Muhammad said murder your enemies with a bloody sword.

Islam a Religion of Peace- only a fool would believe such nonsense.
 
Old 07-14-2015, 12:41 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,086,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha_Dog View Post
Muslim Barbarians will find out that there will not be 72 virgins and sensual delights waiting for them at the end, instead there will be harsh judgement and extreme punishment, they will be cast in hell for eternity for their crimes against humanity. The Koran is from Satan, it comes 610 years after Christianity, and the old Testament bible Torah is written more than 3000 years before that. And no religion other than Islam directs the killing of it's own followers who want to leave this extremely violent religion after experiencing it's demonic and regressive nature. Not even modern day Mormonism or L. Ron's pack of nonsense can claim this.

Christianity is a religion where God sends his own son to die for your sins. Islam is the religion where Allah wants you to die for him and Muhammad said murder your enemies with a bloody sword.

Islam a Religion of Peace- only a fool would believe such nonsense.
Go back and read your bible; it is full of inequities, violence, horrors, misogyny, and all sorts of evil perpetrated on others.

Only a fool would think otherwise. Or believe it's nonsense. Come on a talking snake? A talking donkey? Give me a break
 
Old 07-14-2015, 02:43 AM
 
226 posts, read 123,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Here is the problem-- You are not looking at all killings, just what gets labelled "Terror Killlings" in 2012 14,827 people were murdered last year in the United States, We have over 14,000 murders every year in 24,526 in 1993 SOURCE That is the USA alone--Not the total of murders in all non-Muslim Nations.


Those people are just as dead as the ones killed in a "Terror Attack" they are just as violent. And that is in the USA alone.
I can't see that this is anything other than an irrelevant distraction.

The crime problem in the USA may well deserve study and action, but it's just a different issue to religiously inspired terrorism.

That the USA has a crime problem, doesn't tell you whether or not Islam is inspiring violence or other problems!

Quote:
The fact is if a Muslim does it it is considered a Terror attack
That's just not correct. There are going to be many many killings done by Muslims that are just considered "murder" rather than terrorism.

Quote:
if any ones else does it it is murder
And again, you can certainly get labeled a "terrorist" whatever your religion.

Quote:
which is much more civilized and less violent--- the media would like you to believe.
The "media" didn't invent Islamic terrorism out of nothing.

Quote:
The Non Muslim countries are much more violent then the Muslim nations but they do not get called terrorism.
There is a difference between "crime" generally speaking, and terrorism.

I can only repeat: that the USA has a crime problem, doesn't tell you whether or not Islam is inspiring violence or other problems! It's just a different and separate issue.
 
Old 07-14-2015, 02:52 AM
 
226 posts, read 123,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I could easily claim that an act of Terrorism by a Christian is because of the vuilence the bible contains,

I am not anti-Christian, but I could go to any anti-Christian site and find hundreds of violent verses in the Bible.

If you want to bring up examples from Christianity, well firstly, things may not really be equivalent. Secondly, perhaps Christian scripture does inspire evil in such and such cases.

If you want to defend Islam I think you need more than, "but look at these violent verses in the Bible"...
 
Old 07-14-2015, 04:04 AM
 
Location: USA
11 posts, read 6,043 times
Reputation: 23
Islam in it's pure form is not violent and same goes for Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism or any other religion. Its not that God of that religion killed or ordered to killed those people. The reality is that Some people came to know that like money religion can also be used as a tool to influence the ignorant and control them and make them do whatever they wish.

Extremism exists in mind of people not in religion.
 
Old 07-14-2015, 04:49 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augustine-ray View Post
Islam in it's pure form is not violent and same goes for Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism or any other religion. Its not that God of that religion killed or ordered to killed those people. The reality is that Some people came to know that like money religion can also be used as a tool to influence the ignorant and control them and make them do whatever they wish.

Extremism exists in mind of people not in religion.
Just as we can reduce to all empirical material things from molecules, to atoms, electron-protons, sub-atomic particles, to quarks, we can also reduce all different forms of religions to a common point of human nature.

However when we discuss and highlight religious-inspired and religious-related violence and evil with intention to resolve it, it is not efficient to bring all religions down to its common point.

Note a table of religions would be as follows;

1. Common Point of all religions - separate into
..a. Theistic religions - God exists
..b. Non-theistic religions -No God - Buddhism, Jainism, and others

1a. Theistic religions - God exists -
Judaism -Torah -Moses -Jews
Christianity -Gospel -Jesus -Christians
Islam - Quran -Muhammad -Muslims
Hinduism Gita - Krishna -Vedantists

1b. Non-theistic religions
Buddhism -Sutras -Buddha
Janism - Agamas -Mahavira


When dealing with the subject of religious-inspired and religious-related violence and evil we cannot bring the religions to their pure forms, i.e. the common point.
What is relevant here is their different forms contribute to different form of behaviors in the believers.

When it comes to violence by Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, or others, my hypothesis [as presented in prior post in this thread - presume you have not read them] and subsequent proofs I had inferred that Islam-in-part do contribute to inspire SOME Muslims to commit violence.

Violence committed by Buddhists are not due to their religion per se but by some Buddhists in accord with their inherent evil nature and not Buddhism itself. E.g. you will never hear of a Buddhist justifying his evil acts by quoting verses from the Sutra or refer to the life examples of the Buddha.
 
Old 07-14-2015, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
If you want to bring up examples from Christianity, well firstly, things may not really be equivalent. Secondly, perhaps Christian scripture does inspire evil in such and such cases.

If you want to defend Islam I think you need more than, "but look at these violent verses in the Bible"...
What I am trying to show, but not doing it well.

About 20% of all people seem to have a preponderance towards evil.

They will commit evil With or without religious justification. The Justification is an excuse, not a cause.
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