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Old 07-28-2015, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Just addressing #7

I am coming to the conclusion we have different concepts as to what Islam is.
This is a "Religion and Spirituality > Islam >" section of the "City-Data Forum" and I am certain what I have been posting is in line with what is generally understood as "Islam" within "Religion and Spirituality" and within the World.

The main purpose of this section of the forum and this OP (Islam & Violence) is not about personal testimony of one's understanding and experience of Islam.

Based on your views as below I believe you are misrepresenting what "Islam" is generally understood and agreed to be and as practiced in the world. Your path seem to be like that of the 'Sufi' [individualism, ascetics and mystics] rather than the general norms of what it takes to be a Muslim. As you are aware "Sufism' and their likes are regarded as heretics by the majority of Muslims, whilst imo, they are one-up in terms of spirituality over the majority.

Quote:
My concept Begins first with my belief as to what God(swt) is.It does differ somewhat from most Christian concepts but it does date back tomy Christian era and has remained the same except during my 20 years as an Atheist, although it still remained what I considered God(swt) would be if he existed. Essentially I believe God(swt) is the Creator of all things and does not enter the realm of the physical world, is all knowing and has attributes beyond our ability to under stand including infinite mercy and justice.

Life is all about individual responsibility. It is a learning experience. We our self have to do the searching and learn our available choices, along with the result of our choices. We are responsible for how we worship or do not worship God(swt). How we live life is our religion even if we do not call it a religion.
I would interpret 'life & Spirituality' in the following perspective.

1. All humans are infected with an unavoidable existential dilemma {ED} embedded in the DNA/RNA.
2. Note -this ED generate a drive that is more fundamental and stronger than the sexual libido.
3. This terrible ED manifest psychological angst, anxieties, hopelessness, and the likes.
4. Humans use a various approaches to deal with the TERRIBLE angst of the ED.
5. The majority are driven by the ED to cling on to a God which is a necessary delusion and other means [spiritual or secular].
6. The more competent individuals deal with the ED on their own or in small groups.
7. The majority believers established Religions to guide themselves and others.
8. The main religions are Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc.

Quote:
Islam itself is not a religion, it is performing the specific act of submitting to God(swt) and becomes part of our life, which is our actual religion
Islam in general essentially comprises elements from 1-8 with a heavy focus on 7, i.e. religious elements of Islam, i.e. Quran as its core with expositions of the Hadiths, Sira and others.
Whilst you adopt some elements of Islam, you are not a full-fledge Muslims within Islam per-se.
Your approach comprised mainly of elements from 1-6, that is why you assert Islam itself is not a religion according to your interpretation.

Similarly there are people who adopt various some elements of Buddhist but not the lock-stock-barrel of Buddhism. Therefore they cannot be Buddhist-proper. The same applies to other believers.
Personally I would embrace the inherent unavoidable 1-3 then up to 4 only.

Do you agree to the above principles?


Quote:
Some of the guides available to us are the Qur'an and Ahadith accompanied by the unwritten Sunnah and Sira. We learn the Sunnah and Sira by our searching while they are not specific writings we can learn a bit from the passed down commentaries of Scholars

The Qur'an is not a specific listing of commands it is a guide to show us the results or our choices. The Qur'an explains to us the reasons and whys we should perform Islam but does not tell how. To learn how to perform Islam we follow the guidelines of a Madhab that is based upon Ahadith and Sira It is an error to use the Qur'an as an instrument of commands. It is the reasons and examples of choice results. It is our resposibiity to learn how to perform Islam, through family, Madhabs, local tradition, it is also our responsibility to verify we are performing Islam properly.

My own personal choice on learning how to perform Islam is the Hanafi Madhab. I also constantly study all 4 Madhabs but follow the Hanafi

A person will never learn how to perform Islam through the Qur'an, just the reasons one should. One can learn how to perform Islam with out the Que'an but will not learn the reasons why.

World wide many people learn how to perform Islam through family tradition, without ever reading the Qur'an. It is their own responsibility to always question if they are performing Islam correctly.
Regardless of what you [as an individual opinion] write above, as I mentioned above, Islam-in-general essentially comprises, Quran as its core with expositions of the Hadiths, Sira and others and specifically traceable to Muhammad. The elements of What is Islam cover elements 1-8 [above] with a heavy focus on 7, i.e. religious elements of Islam.

It is an acceptable fact there are 1.5 billion Muslims adopting the religion of Islam [as defined above].
Thus whenever we refer to Islam you cannot force your personal view [of what is Islam] into the issue.
This is like forcing your square peg into the OP's round hole.

You have to step into the general view of what Islam is and discuss [agree or disagree] why Islam-in-general as practiced by 1.5 billion Muslims contain malignant evil elements that catalyze SOME Muslims to commit terrible evils around the world.

 
Old 07-28-2015, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Non-Muslims tend to attatch it to Islam alone. But it is simply the Arabic word that translates as struggle.

We all face Jihads(Struggles)

The Jihad of some people is their struggle to convince Muslims that Islam is violent
Note the context of this OP which is essentially related to Islam, thus the Quran.
The term "Jihad" in the current context and situation is understood by consensus of the majority to be
Jihad (جهاد‎ ǧihād [dʒiˈhćːd]) is an Islamic term ......... "striving in the way of God (al-jihad fi sabil Allah)", to refer to the act of striving to serve the purposes of God on this earth.
Javed Ahmad Ghamidi states that there is consensus among Islamic scholars that the concept of jihad will always include armed struggle against wrong doers. -wiki
It is just like the term 'gay' which has an etymological meaning but in the present situation it is obvious 'gay' is related to homosexuality. If anyone were to use the term 'gay' as 'happy' or 'joyful' they will have to qualify and explain or ensure the context support their intended meaning.

The same applies to the term 'Jihad' where the default meaning is 'struggle in the way of god via armed struggle against the infidels.' If any one has another meaning, they will have to qualify accordingly.
 
Old 07-29-2015, 03:20 AM
 
226 posts, read 123,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Jihad is the Arabic term for struggle. All people face Jihads (Struggles)

Words often have different shades of meaning.

It's true that "jihad" has a broader and basic meaning of "striving" or "struggle". But as often used, it does indeed mean something like "holy war", regardless that such isn't the literal translation of the term.
 
Old 07-29-2015, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
Words often have different shades of meaning.

It's true that "jihad" has a broader and basic meaning of "striving" or "struggle". But as often used, it does indeed mean something like "holy war", regardless that such isn't the literal translation of the term.
True Jihad like most Arabic words has a very broad range of meanings, all dependent upon the context.

But the fact is every person engages in Jihad. The concept does not always equate to what they believe the Islamic concept of Jihad is.

To many non-Muslims it seems they will always believe Jihad means "Holy War" and will always associate it with aggression.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This is a "Religion and Spirituality > Islam >" section of the "City-Data Forum" and I am certain what I have been posting is in line with what is generally understood as "Islam" within "Religion and Spirituality" and within the World.

The main purpose of this section of the forum and this OP (Islam & Violence) is not about personal testimony of one's understanding and experience of Islam.

Based on your views as below I believe you are misrepresenting what "Islam" is generally understood and agreed to be and as practiced in the world. Your path seem to be like that of the 'Sufi' [individualism, ascetics and mystics] rather than the general norms of what it takes to be a Muslim. As you are aware "Sufism' and their likes are regarded as heretics by the majority of Muslims, whilst imo, they are one-up in terms of spirituality over the majority..
You are more likely to find that every Muslim has their own concept of Islam. The only things I find the majority have in common Is they each try to perform Islam to the best of their ability and each tries to follow the Pillars of Islam

Most Sunni believe there are 5 pillars


Shahadah: declaring there is no god except God, and Muhammad is God's Messenger
Salat: ritual prayer five times a day
Zakat: giving 2.5% of one’s possesions to the poor and needy
Sawm: fasting and self-control during the holy month of Ramadan
Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in a lifetime if one is able

However the Shia faith believes the sixth pillar is khums, which means that believers have to pay 1.5% their wealth to the Sayyids. (an honorific title denoting males accepted as descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad through his grandsons, Hasan ibn Ali and Husayn ibn Ali, sons of Muhammad's daughter Fatimah and his son-in-law Ali (Ali ibn Abi Talib).

As to how Muslims learn and practice Islam will be based upon what Madhab they learn from and follow

Official Sunni Madhabs

Hanafi--About 30% of Sunni follow the Hanafi madhab. making it the single largest group of Muslims
Shafi'i
Maliki
Hanbal--Only Saudi and Qatar follow Hanbali

Unofficial Sunni madhabs

Wahabbi
Salafi (A stricter form of Wahabbi)
Deobondi
Sufi
Ahmadyya


Shi'ite Madhabs

Jafa'ari
12er sect of Jafa'ari
Ismaili


An unknown but believed to be small number of Sunni and Shi'ite claim to be Qur'ani-- Qur'an only and deny the Ahadith and Madhabs

While Hanafi makeup only about 25% of the World's Muslims No other group makes up over 10% There is no single group that makes a majority of the World's Muslims.

Virtually every terrorist has claimed to be Wahabbi or Salafi
The most extreme Groups that claim to be Wahabbi
Taliban
al-Qaida
Islamic State

The Muslim Brotherhood claims to follow Salafi

I do attempt to follow Hanafi and I believe my views are very much in accordance with Hanafi.--Hanafi does have some variations according to Nation--- Primarily in relation to Criminal law

A very large number of American Muslims are actually NOI What they call Islam was founded in the USA in the 1930s. It is an American Religion and best known for it's prison conversions..


NO MUSLIM CAN SPEAK FOR ANOTHER MUSLIM. THERE IS NO INDIVIDUAL, SECT, GROUP OR ORGANIZATION THAT IS THE "OFFICIAL" VOICE/AUTHORITY FOR ISLAM. WHEN A MUSLIM SPEAKS OF ISLAM HE CAN ONLY SPEAK OF HIS OWN VIEWS AND FINDINGS FROM HIS OWN EXPERIENCES.

I can only speak of my own findings through my own experience,, the same as all any other Muslims are permitted to do.
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 07-29-2015 at 01:04 PM..
 
Old 07-29-2015, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You are more likely to find that every Muslim has their own concept of Islam. The only things I find the majority have in common Is they each try to perform Islam to the best of their ability and each tries to follow the Pillars of Islam
Nowhere in the Quran it is stated Islam is specifically for the individual alone. There is a concern for the individual [salvation] in the Quran but the central theme of the Quran is directed to Muslims as a group [Nation, brotherhood] whose language is Arabic ONLY [this is specific in the Quran].

Quote:
..<snip>
As to how Muslims learn and practice Islam will be based upon what Madhab
they learn from and follow
..<snip>

NO MUSLIM CAN SPEAK FOR ANOTHER MUSLIM. THERE IS NO INDIVIDUAL, SECT, GROUP OR ORGANIZATION THAT IS THE "OFFICIAL" VOICE/AUTHORITY FOR ISLAM. WHEN A MUSLIM SPEAKS OF ISLAM HE CAN ONLY SPEAK OF HIS OWN VIEWS AND FINDINGS FROM HIS OWN EXPERIENCES.

I can only speak of my own findings through my own experience,, the same as all any other Muslims are permitted to do.
The majority will not agree with your bolded views above.

It is a fact Muslims are organized into sects [as listed by you] and they are guided by their respective Madhab[s]. These various groupings have their own laws [sharia] and rules. Note Saudi Arabia and all the various Islamic States [Nations] around the world. The problem is whilst each specific Country or group has it own laws, rules and interpretations of the Quran and other holy texts, there is no common group to decide who is right or wrong. [OIC is a toothless for this purpose].

The are many individuals [like you] who practice based on their own and relying upon guidelines from a Madhab[s] and own personal experiences. However they are like merely drops of water to the oceans. They are an insignificant representation of what is termed 'Islam.'


Note this critical point;
Islam is practiced by 1.5 billion of Muslims or all sorts, i.e. individual on their own, groups, sects, and Nations and governments.
Whilst they are different of various forms they the Muslims share the same Ethos or Esprit-de-Corps as if it has one body and mind of its own hinging on the Quran, Hadiths, Sira, others and the martial ethos of Muhammad.

An individual locust is not harmful at all, but when a large number of individual[s] herds and swarm together, they herd, the swarm seem to have a mind of its own and in this case a very destructive mind.

Similarly Muslims [in contrast to other believers] has a greater sense of brotherhood amongst themselves as inspired by Islam via its Esprit-de-Corps. This is why we often associate themselves with 1.5 billion Muslims as a group.

The problem is within this Esprit-de-Corps of Islam there are [in part] malignant elements that has potentials for evil where the catalyze SOME [20% = 300 million ] the evil-prone to commit terrible evils around the world. This is not a guess nor speculation but it is a reality as supported by glaring evidences.

That is the root cause and basis for the OP's 'Why Islam is SO violent?' QED.

I understand you are an individual practitioner of Islam BUT you cannot ignore the fact [in this case of the OP] that you are an essential part of this 1.5-billion-Muslims-swarm with a common Esprit-de-Corps which in part is malignant and has real potential for evil. In a way, the part is complicit to the acts of the whole in this case.

Therefore in this case of the OP you cannot simply deflect away the truth and reality of it by consistently denying Islam itself in part as a whole has a role in the OP.
 
Old 07-29-2015, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Nowhere in the Quran it is stated Islam is specifically for the individual alone. There is a concern for the individual [salvation] in the Quran but the central theme of the Quran is directed to Muslims as a group [Nation, brotherhood] whose language is Arabic ONLY [this is specific in the Quran].

The majority will not agree with your bolded views above.

It is a fact Muslims are organized into sects [as listed by you] and they are guided by their respective Madhab[s]. These various groupings have their own laws [sharia] and rules. Note Saudi Arabia and all the various Islamic States [Nations] around the world. The problem is whilst each specific Country or group has it own laws, rules and interpretations of the Quran and other holy texts, there is no common group to decide who is right or wrong. [OIC is a toothless for this purpose].

The are many individuals [like you] who practice based on their own and relying upon guidelines from a Madhab[s] and own personal experiences. However they are like merely drops of water to the oceans. They are an insignificant representation of what is termed 'Islam.'


Note this critical point;
Islam is practiced by 1.5 billion of Muslims or all sorts, i.e. individual on their own, groups, sects, and Nations and governments.
Whilst they are different of various forms they the Muslims share the same Ethos or Esprit-de-Corps as if it has one body and mind of its own hinging on the Quran, Hadiths, Sira, others and the martial ethos of Muhammad.

An individual locust is not harmful at all, but when a large number of individual[s] herds and swarm together, they herd, the swarm seem to have a mind of its own and in this case a very destructive mind.

Similarly Muslims [in contrast to other believers] has a greater sense of brotherhood amongst themselves as inspired by Islam via its Esprit-de-Corps. This is why we often associate themselves with 1.5 billion Muslims as a group.

The problem is within this Esprit-de-Corps of Islam there are [in part] malignant elements that has potentials for evil where the catalyze SOME [20% = 300 million ] the evil-prone to commit terrible evils around the world. This is not a guess nor speculation but it is a reality as supported by glaring evidences.

That is the root cause and basis for the OP's 'Why Islam is SO violent?' QED.

I understand you are an individual practitioner of Islam BUT you cannot ignore the fact [in this case of the OP] that you are an essential part of this 1.5-billion-Muslims-swarm with a common Esprit-de-Corps which in part is malignant and has real potential for evil. In a way, the part is complicit to the acts of the whole in this case.

Therefore in this case of the OP you cannot simply deflect away the truth and reality of it by consistently denying Islam itself in part as a whole has a role in the OP.
Just one example thar no individual or organization has religious authority to represent Islam


Quote:
While the document is extraordinary by any standard, it would be unwise to either overestimate or underestimate its authority. As mentioned earlier, there is no one person or institution that speaks authoritatively for all Muslims. It is to be expected that there will be Muslims who disagree with the document or reject it entirely. Nevertheless, there is in Islam a principle called ijma‘, “consensus,” similar to the Catholic principle of sensus fidelium.
Who Speaks for Islam? | America Magazine



You may want to check on Wahabbi. You will find that virtually every act of violence has been done by those who follow Wahabbi(salafi)





A better question would be "Why are wahabbii so Violent?" a simple answer is because they do not follow a Madhab and instead follow the teaching of Muhammad Wahab.

How Saudi Wahhabism Is the Fountainhead of Islamist Terrorism
How Saudi Wahhabism Is the Fountainhead of Islamist Terrorism*|*Yousaf Butt

The Roots of Islamic Terrorism: the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia
Political Thoughts - the magazine: The Roots of Islamic Terrorism: the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia

Quote:
Muslim sources on Wahhabism and when I went to live in Bosnia was prepared to confront it.
Wahhabism, Terrorism, Islam
Interview with Stephen Suleyman Schwartz
1. THE TWO FACES OF ISLAM is your masterpiece. I never read any book that deals with the history and present character of Wahhabism so deeply, aside from it. What lead you to write such a book?

Thank you for your high compliments, which I treasure.

I became aware of the negative role of Wahhabism in present-day Islam during the Bosnian war, with the interference of Wahhabi "mujahidin" who came to Bosnia and did not contribute properly to the Bosnian struggle but did attempt to impose their deviant interpretation on the Balkan Muslims. I read everything then available in M
When I came back from the Balkans, the events of September 11, 2001, and the involvement of Saudi subjects in the terrorist atrocities of that day, made my knowledge of Wahhabism suddenly relevant. *

I had intended to write a book on Islam, and, with no warning, a specific topic – Wahhabi radicalism – was thrust upon me. I took up the challenge, but all such abilities are gifts from Allah subhanawata'ala, so finally must say I wrote the book because I was guided to do so. I was presented with a task, and did my best to fulfill it, and, alhamdulillah, have been rewarded for it in this life. It is perhaps a matter worthy of irony that when I was writing The Two Faces of Islam some of my non-Muslim colleagues were surprised when I said I was writing the book more for Muslims than non-Muslims. They presumed that Muslims would not read my book. But my book has had a greater impact in the Muslim countries than in the West, which is very gratifying to me.
Wahhabism, Terrorism, Islam: Interview with Stephen Suleyman Schwartz :: Center for Islamic Pluralism
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Old 07-29-2015, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Just one example that no individual or organization has religious authority to represent Islam
Who Speaks for Islam? | America Magazine
Your point support my point.
The impact may not be problematic for individuals like you, but there are individual groups, sects, organization and Islamic countries that has large members with the same thinking. The Saudis is a large nation of people who support a government that do not allow any religious buildings or organization in the country as inspired by the Quran. They do not respect human rights in other aspects. And this is very real.
Different large groups of Muslims has their own laws and rules that oppress and bash non-Muslims.

Thus your example support my point, no individual or organization has any religious authority to represent Islam per se.
But the fact that Islam contain a large percentage of negative elements inspired these individual[s] to commit evils and there is no central authority decide what they do is right or wrong. Therefore these are large countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, ISIS can to what they deemed fit regardless of whether it is evil or good.

Quote:
You may want to check on Wahabbi. You will find that virtually every act of violence has been done by those who follow Wahabbi(salafi)

A better question would be "Why are wahabbii so Violent?" a simple answer is because they do not follow a Madhab and instead follow the teaching of Muhammad Wahab.

How Saudi Wahhabism Is the Fountainhead of Islamist Terrorism
How Saudi Wahhabism Is the Fountainhead of Islamist Terrorism*|*Yousaf Butt

The Roots of Islamic Terrorism: the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia
Political Thoughts - the magazine: The Roots of Islamic Terrorism: the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia


Wahhabism, Terrorism, Islam: Interview with Stephen Suleyman Schwartz :: Center for Islamic Pluralism
It is obvious the Wahhabism do emphasize on the inherent evil elements from the Quran, its associated texts and the martial ethos of Islam.

The point is what the Wahhabists are doing are right in the eyes of Islam which is supported by the Quran, the Quran, its associated texts and the martial ethos of Islam.
Which central authority can tell them they are wrong. Muslims can only know when they face Allah on Judgment Day.
The Wahhabists will claim 'you' the individual Muslim will not rewarded in heaven, how would you defend that? Btw, they have the support of the relevant verses in the Quran, its related texts and Muhammad as the perfect exemplar.

The Wahhabists claim they are on the perfect straight path while the others are astray. They are so confident they will please God. Based on the Islamic texts, who is to tell them they are wrong. Besides in the final chronological stages of the Quran, Allah highly praise those who leave them home for the cause of Allah [wars and raids] and indirectly condemned those who stay at home, show no zeal and are sedentary.

It is true the Wahhabists focus on the violent streak of the Quran because they sincerely believe they have to be literal with the words of Allah and not to compromise them. This need to comply 100% is a matter of eternal life in heaven or torments in Hell, thus note this critical existential 'libido.'

However, this streak of evil is also inherent in the Quran, its related texts and Muhammad as the perfect exemplar, it whole ethos and Esprit de Corps, and therefore also inspired those from the 20% [= 300 million ] of evil prone Muslims from pool of the general Muslim population. Those born-again evil prone Muslims will rebel against their own natural groups, the moderates and turned evil, e.g. many Sunnis who were non-Wahhabists became foreign jihadists.

Therefore the The Roots of Islamic Terrorism is from Islam itself, i.e.
1. that part of evil element with the Esprit de Corps of Islam which is mainly adopted by the Wahhabist but also
2. evil prone Muslims [20%] from the other groups and sect and
3. Self-radicalized independent individual Muslim[s] on their own - lone wolf.
 
Old 07-30-2015, 05:49 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your point support my point.
The impact may not be problematic for individuals like you, but there are individual groups, sects, organization and Islamic countries that has large members with the same thinking. The Saudis is a large nation of people who support a government that do not allow any religious buildings or organization in the country as inspired by the Quran. They do not respect human rights in other aspects. And this is very real.
Different large groups of Muslims has their own laws and rules that oppress and bash non-Muslims.

Thus your example support my point, no individual or organization has any religious authority to represent Islam per se.
But the fact that Islam contain a large percentage of negative elements inspired these individual[s] to commit evils and there is no central authority decide what they do is right or wrong. Therefore these are large countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, ISIS can to what they deemed fit regardless of whether it is evil or good.

It is obvious the Wahhabism do emphasize on the inherent evil elements from the Quran, its associated texts and the martial ethos of Islam.

The point is what the Wahhabists are doing are right in the eyes of Islam which is supported by the Quran, the Quran, its associated texts and the martial ethos of Islam.
Which central authority can tell them they are wrong. Muslims can only know when they face Allah on Judgment Day.
The Wahhabists will claim 'you' the individual Muslim will not rewarded in heaven, how would you defend that? Btw, they have the support of the relevant verses in the Quran, its related texts and Muhammad as the perfect exemplar.

The Wahhabists claim they are on the perfect straight path while the others are astray. They are so confident they will please God. Based on the Islamic texts, who is to tell them they are wrong. Besides in the final chronological stages of the Quran, Allah highly praise those who leave them home for the cause of Allah [wars and raids] and indirectly condemned those who stay at home, show no zeal and are sedentary.

It is true the Wahhabists focus on the violent streak of the Quran because they sincerely believe they have to be literal with the words of Allah and not to compromise them. This need to comply 100% is a matter of eternal life in heaven or torments in Hell, thus note this critical existential 'libido.'

However, this streak of evil is also inherent in the Quran, its related texts and Muhammad as the perfect exemplar, it whole ethos and Esprit de Corps, and therefore also inspired those from the 20% [= 300 million ] of evil prone Muslims from pool of the general Muslim population. Those born-again evil prone Muslims will rebel against their own natural groups, the moderates and turned evil, e.g. many Sunnis who were non-Wahhabists became foreign jihadists.

Therefore the The Roots of Islamic Terrorism is from Islam itself, i.e.
1. that part of evil element with the Esprit de Corps of Islam which is mainly adopted by the Wahhabist but also
2. evil prone Muslims [20%] from the other groups and sect and
3. Self-radicalized independent individual Muslim[s] on their own - lone wolf.

Except the Qur'an does not teach how to perform Islam. One could read the Qur'an 10 times a day for 1000 years and would never lean the Pillars of Islam, How to do Salat, How to do Islam

The Qur'an gives us the reasons to perform Islam but does not teach how. For that one needs to study the Madhabs.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Except the Qur'an does not teach how to perform Islam. One could read the Qur'an 10 times a day for 1000 years and would never lean the Pillars of Islam, How to do Salat, How to do Islam

The Qur'an gives us the reasons to perform Islam but does not teach how. For that one needs to study the Madhabs.
You missed my point which is;

There is streak of evil inherent in the Quran, its related texts and Muhammad [martial] as the perfect exemplar, its whole ethos and Esprit de Corps, which inspired the evil prone from the 20% [= 300 million ] pool from within the general Muslim population.

As far as this OP re Islam and Violence is concern, the critical factor is the evil prone from the 20% [= 300 million ] will establish their own forms, e.g. the Wahabists & the other evil-prone groups who interpret the Quran in their own ways for their own salvation. Why should they care about the other Madhabs. Who is to decide which Madhabs has the correct teachings.

Since there is no central authority to decide what is right and what is wrong on Islamic matters from the Quran, these evil prone groups will act as they deem fit in accordance to the interpretations of the Quran.

Therefore the The Roots of Islamic Terrorism is from Islam itself, i.e.
1. that part of evil element with the Esprit de Corps of Islam which is mainly adopted by the Wahhabist but also
2. evil prone Muslims [20%] from the other groups and sect and
3. Self-radicalized independent individual Muslim[s] on their own - lone wolf.
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