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Old 08-08-2015, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,378 posts, read 1,467,811 times
Reputation: 1480

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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
KenFresno, I agree. After reading the Quran there is really no way to see Islam as peaceful and tolerant and good. I read the hadiths and that further cemented what you are saying (I suggest you read the hadiths) and putting that together with about 2,500 conversations with 'moderate' Muslims and watching what has and is happening around the globe...the only question I have left is why so many Westerners would protect Islam. I am truly baffled by this. No matter what history they are shown, no matter how many terrorist attacks happen, no matter what verses from the Quran are presented to them, no matter what they see happening in Europe .... they attack the messenger and protect Islam.
Agreed. Read the Quran and see how many verses are dedicated to those who do not believe in Islam and what is supposed to happen to them. The Quran is not a book fit for a civilized modern democracy. It's a man made book whose time has come to discard and throw on the trash heap of history.

 
Old 08-08-2015, 11:46 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,951 times
Reputation: 435
Elk Wallow,
There is a marked difference between race and religion (ideology). Your comment is actually quite racist. No one chooses their race and race says nothing about the person's character/religion/ideology, which IS chosen. There are ex-Muslims who would never act in this manner. Yet they are of the same race as the Muslims that are raping. It's the IDEOLOGY, not the race.

Islam is an ideology that promotes rape.

The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

And Islam considers captive/non-Muslim women property.

"Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham/Hisham 693)

Muhammed owned many women slaves and even passed out women like party favors:

"The apostle gave Ali a girl called Rayta; and he gave Uthman a girl called Zaynab; and he gave Umar a girl whom Umar gave to his son Abdullah." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 878)

Muslims consider Muhammed the perfect example.

Last edited by juju33312; 08-08-2015 at 11:48 AM.. Reason: added poster name
 
Old 08-08-2015, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,454 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Far better one RELY upon the rulings of a Madhab rather than interpreting Ahadith.
OK, there is your problem, Woodrow! There is no one you should rely on.

Sure, you can read some so-called religious book and consider the opinions of a Madhab (whoever that is), but after considering those opinions, you should rely on your own sense of decency and common sense to decide what is right and wrong.

You are a good and moral person. Your own sense of decency will not steer you wrong.
 
Old 08-08-2015, 07:41 PM
 
352 posts, read 308,370 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim As salaamu alaykum.



Down with religions. Up with the New World Order -- of Communism. Isn't that a fact? I can see the prison camps overflowing already! I bet you all can't wait to get into one of those coffins that can hold up to five persons at a time. Just keep beating up on your only salvation that fits you like a glove; Islam.
Your future ideology (NWO), is coming into view! Let's hear it for the NWO! Three cheers!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan2008 View Post
Agreed. Read the Quran and see how many verses are dedicated to those who do not believe in Islam and what is supposed to happen to them. The Quran is not a book fit for a civilized modern democracy. It's a man made book whose time has come to discard and throw on the trash heap of history.


Peace.
 
Old 08-08-2015, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
OK, there is your problem, Woodrow! There is no one you should rely on.

Sure, you can read some so-called religious book and consider the opinions of a Madhab (whoever that is), but after considering those opinions, you should rely on your own sense of decency and common sense to decide what is right and wrong.

You are a good and moral person. Your own sense of decency will not steer you wrong.
A madhab is not a person. It is a school of thought regarding Islamic Jurisprudence and practices.

There are 4 Madhabs recognized by Sunni Maliki, Hanbali, Hanafi and Sahi'i. About 30$ of all Muslims follow the Hanafi Madhab which is based Upon

1.Qur'an
2.Ahadith
3. Consensus of Local Scholars
4. Local Needs
5. Local Customs

Because of the last 3 it does differ from Nation to Nation.even from Mosque to Mosque to some degree.

There also are Sunni that do not follow a Madhab and others that follow Sufi, Wahabbi, Salafi.

Because of it's flexibility I find the Hanafi to be most compatable with life in the USA. The Strictest is Hanbali which is followed only by Saudi and Qatar. The most radical is Wahabbi/Salafi (They are the same except Salafi are stricter, but less violent) which most radicals have been identified with and is what is followed by IS.
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,584,535 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim As salaamu alaykum.

Down with religions. Up with the New World Order -- of Communism. Isn't that a fact? I can see the prison camps overflowing already! I bet you all can't wait to get into one of those coffins that can hold up to five persons at a time. Just keep beating up on your only salvation that fits you like a glove; Islam.
Your future ideology (NWO), is coming into view! Let's hear it for the NWO! Three cheers!!!

Peace.
I think you are feeling too personal when others are criticizing Islam the ideology. It is just unfortunate for you that your chosen religion is tied up with real evils and violence committed by SOME believers [not you].

Most concerned citizens of the world criticize Islam not because they want to convert Muslims or expect them to leave their religion. It is up to the individual to do what s/he wants. At present I don't expect Muslims in general to leave their religion because of the inherent and unavoidable existential dilemma.

Most concerned citizens and human beings criticize Islam because of
-the real FACT of terrible evils and violence committed by SOME Muslims who are catalyze by
-the evil laden verses in the Quran [Fact]
-plus those in the Hadiths, Sira, and other texts [Fact], and
-the martial ethos of Islam [Fact].
The above facts are undisputable.

The criticism is not directed at you & ALL the 1.5 billion Muslims around the world but only at SOME [20% =300 million ] and the more critical fundamentalists which may be 1% [15 million ] where the quantum is still significant, plus the evil laden verses in the Quran and related texts.

Just in case, humanity must address ALL types of Evil and violence, deliberate on it and establish strategies to prevent and minimize ALL evils and violence. Islam-related and Islam-inspired evil and violence are one of these evils which must be given immediate attention.
 
Old 08-09-2015, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,584,535 times
Reputation: 461
Muslims in the U.S. - Rise Up and Kill!

Quoting from the Quran
Muslim Leader Imam Farrakhan Calls on 10,000 Muslims in the U.S. to Rise Up and Kill.

#‎JusticeOrElse | Video clip from the Minister Louis Farrakhan's message delivered July 30, 2015 in Miami, Fl., at Mt. Zion Baptist Church.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr4bYXK7je8


Farrakhan said “I’m looking for 10,000 in the midst of a million. Ten thousand fearless men who say death is sweeter than continued life under tyranny. Death is sweeter than continuing to live and bury our children while the white folks give our killers hamburgers. Death is sweeter than watching us slaughter each other to the joy of a 400-year-old enemy. Death is sweeter.
The Quran teaches persecution is worse than slaughter. Then it says retaliation is prescribed in matters of the slain. Retaliation is a prescription from God to calm the breasts of those whose children have been slain. So if the federal government won’t intercede in our affairs, then we must rise up and kill those who kill us; stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling!”

Who is to decide whether they are right or wrong?

What is the solution to the above potential threat?
Once they start a mob frenzy it would be very difficult to stop.
Blacks will give whites and whites will kill blacks.

All because and due to some evil laden verses in a book.
 
Old 08-09-2015, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Muslims in the U.S. - Rise Up and Kill!

Quoting from the Quran
Muslim Leader Imam Farrakhan Calls on 10,000 Muslims in the U.S. to Rise Up and Kill.

#‎JusticeOrElse | Video clip from the Minister Louis Farrakhan's message delivered July 30, 2015 in Miami, Fl., at Mt. Zion Baptist Church.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr4bYXK7je8


Farrakhan said “I’m looking for 10,000 in the midst of a million. Ten thousand fearless men who say death is sweeter than continued life under tyranny. Death is sweeter than continuing to live and bury our children while the white folks give our killers hamburgers. Death is sweeter than watching us slaughter each other to the joy of a 400-year-old enemy. Death is sweeter.
The Quran teaches persecution is worse than slaughter. Then it says retaliation is prescribed in matters of the slain. Retaliation is a prescription from God to calm the breasts of those whose children have been slain. So if the federal government won’t intercede in our affairs, then we must rise up and kill those who kill us; stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling!”

Who is to decide whether they are right or wrong?

What is the solution to the above potential threat?
Once they start a mob frenzy it would be very difficult to stop.
Blacks will give whites and whites will kill blacks.

All because and due to some evil laden verses in a book.
I think you may want to check on who and what the NOI are.

They do not follow Muhammad(saws) and believe he was replaced by Elijah Poole (Elijah Mohammad) who in turn was replaced by Louis Farrakhan.

They are the "Muslims" with the huge prison ministry in the US.

They are quite a bit fifferent from what was revealed 1400 years ago. While Elijah Mohammad was the "Supreme Prophet" membership was restricted to African Americans. Farrakhan did lift that restriction and perhaps one day he will revert to Islam. Some NOI have accepted Islam one of the first was MalcolmX the most famous is probably Muhammad Ali.
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Old 08-09-2015, 05:18 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,503,305 times
Reputation: 3870
Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim As salaamu alaykum.



Down with religions. Up with the New World Order -- of Communism. Isn't that a fact? I can see the prison camps overflowing already! I bet you all can't wait to get into one of those coffins that can hold up to five persons at a time. Just keep beating up on your only salvation that fits you like a glove; Islam.
Your future ideology (NWO), is coming into view! Let's hear it for the NWO! Three cheers!!!






Peace.
So it's either the so-called NWO or superstition.
Was there more progress in terms of human rights, the rights of women, the embrace of science and technology, when Arab nationalism looked to socialism, or when it looked to 7th century myth?
 
Old 08-09-2015, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
So it's either the so-called NWO or superstition.
Was there more progress in terms of human rights, the rights of women, the embrace of science and technology, when Arab nationalism looked to socialism, or when it looked to 7th century myth?

For about the first 500 years after the revelation of the Qur'an women were the most prominent Islamic Scholars and national leaders/

WOMAN MUSLIM LEADERS

and

FEMALE LEADERS IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES
throughout the times



624 Opposition Leader Hind al-Hunnud, Arab World

A member of the Quaish Tribe in the Kingdom of Kindah, she was one of the leaders of the opposition to Muhammed. She led a battle against him in 624, where her father and brother were killed and she then led a battle of vengeance against Muhammed. In the end she submitted to him and became a Muslim convert.



631-56 Politically Influential 'A'ishah Bint Abi Bakr, Arab World

Aishah was a powerful force in the political turmoil that followed the death of her husband, the Prophet Muhammed. She became very important for her role in the civil war, where she was defeated and captured in a battle in 656 and only released on promising to abandon political life. Her religious teachings became important for the Shiite branch of the Muslim faith. She lived (613-78).



681 Khanum Pisutu of Uighuristan (Central Asia)

The Uighur Khans governed portions of Central Asia in the centuries immediately following the Muslim expansion, and then fade from view. It is not entirely clear that the Turkic people called Uighurs who now dwell mostly in Western China are the same folk; the name is the same, but it could have been adopted by later-arriving tribes. The country was invaded by the Got Turks in 681.



Ca 690-701 Queen Dahlia al-Chain of the Moors (Berbian tribe in Tunisia)

Her name means the "priestess" or the "prophetess", and she assumed personal command of the Barbarian forces, and under her leadership, the Arabs were briefly forced to retreat, but since the Arabs were relentless, she ordered a scorched earth policy. After her defeat, Dahia al-Kahina took her own life, and sent her sons to the Arab camp with instructions that they adopt Islam and make common cause with the Arabs. Ultimately, these men participated in invading Europe and the subjugation of Spain and Portugal.



720-.. De facto Joint Ruler Hababa of Bagdad (Iraq)

She was slave singer of the 9th Ummayyad Caliph, Yarzid II Ibn 'Abd al-Malik who was hostage to her carm. She choked on a pomegranate seed and he died of grief a few weeks later. Later historians stigmatized him and held him in contempt for letting himself be infatuated by a slave.



734-41 Khatun and Regent Mo-ki-lien of Mong (Mongolia)

Is known as Khatun Mo-ki-lien, which was the name of her husband. He was poisoned by his minister, and she acted as regent for their son, Yu-jan, who was again succeeded by her minor brother, Tängri Khagan, who died in 741.



Circa 774 Governor Cara Zon of Carcasson (Spain)

A Marurian-Arab Princess. She defended the city-state against Charles the Great.



775-809 Politically Influential Caliph-Consort Al-Haizuran of Bagdad (Iraq)

Also known as Khayzuran (literally, Bamboo) she was a slave, born most likely in Yemen, and gained substantial influence during the reigns of her husband, al-Mahdi (775-785), who allowed her to make many important royal decisions. After his death, it was Khayzuran who kept the peace by paying off the Caliph's army in order to maintain order. She arranged for the accession of her son, al-Hadi, even when he was away from the capitol. When al-Hadi proved less tolerant of Khayzuran's political maneuverings than had al-Mahdi, it was speculated that it was Khayzuran who arranged his murder in favour of her second, more tolerant son, Harun. Whatever the truth, Khayzuran is more fondly remembered than many of the caliphs themselves.
908-32 Politically Influential Shaghab of Baghdad (Iraq)
Succeeded in maneuvering the religious and military elite into recognizing her only 13 year old son, Muqtadir, as caliph. She had origially been a slave.

Empress Wei Shi


926 Regent Dowager Empress Shulü Hatun of Qidan (China and of Mongolia)

Also known as Khatun Shu-lü Shih of Purtmish, she was regent after the death of her husband Abaoji until her son Yaoku was elected as his successor as ruler of The Qidan nationality, which originally dwelt in the upper reaches of the mountains. It was nomadic and its main activities were fishing and hunting.



Around 950 Queen Yehudit of the Falasha Agaw (Ethiopia)

Also known as Yodit, Esato or Judith, she attacked the Christian southern provinces of Ethopia as far as the mountains of Tigre around 975. The Ethiopians saw her invasion as a punishment for having failed to be obedient to their Coptic patriarch. While the Agaw held power, the Amhara and Tegre culture entered a "dark age" about which little is known, and a large part of the Ethiopian civilization was lost or destroyed during this time.



Until 970 Princess Alan-Goa of the Hori-Tumat Dynasty in Mongolia

Succeeded by Bodonchar




Around 976 Politically Influential Dowager Queen of Persia (Iran)

Together with vizier Abu'l-Husain 'Abd-Allah ibn Ahmad 'Utbi, she assisted her son, Nuh II ibn Mansur, of the Samanid Dynasty (d. 997) who ascended to the throne as a youth.



981 Regent Hint bint Ishaq of Thima (Arabia)



997-1028/29 Regent for the Caliph-Governor Sayuda Sirin Hatyn of Gabal of Persia

Reigned in the name of both her son and grandson, both of the Bayide Dynasty



Around 1000 Leader Badit bint Maja of the Politically Organized Islamic Society (Ethiopia)

Either leader of a tribe or substate-entity.



1020-24 Regent Naib us Sultanat Sitt al-Moluk of Egypt

Also known as the Lady of Cairo, her name means "Lady of Power", and assumed power after having arranged the "disappearance" of her brother Imam Hakim bin Amr Allah. She had his son al-Zahir proclaimed Imam and Caliph and she became regent. She appointed competent ministers, managed to setting the economy in order and brought peace to the country. (d. 1024)



1046-62 Regent The Caliph-Mother of Egypt

For the Fathamide-Caliph. She was a Sudanese ex -slave.



1061-1107 Joint Ruler al-qa'ima bi mulkini Zainab al-Nafzawiyya of the Berber Empire (Northern Africa)

Contemporary sources name her "the one in charge of her husband's realm", and she was joint ruler with her husband, Yusuf Ibn Tashfin of an Empire covering most of Northern Africa.



1084-1137 Regent Dowager Sultana Saiyida Hurra Arwa bint Ahmad as-Sulayhi of Tihama (Arabia)

Ruled in the name of Saba, who died in 1197/99 and then reigned alone, though together with other co-regents. From sometime in the 1130s she was the sole ruler. She was succeeded by Sultan al-Mansur bin al Mugaddal.



1086-94 Regent Dowager Queen Khanum of the Tanguts (Dangxiang) (China and Mongolia)

Regent for son Li Qianshum (1086-1139), who ruled in Jingbian/Ningxian.



Until 1087 Co-Ruler al-Sayyida al-Hurra Malika Asma Bint Shibab al-Sulayhiyya of Yemen

Her title means "The Most Noble Lady who is independent, the woman sovereign who bows to no superior authority, Queen". She was married to Sultan Ali al-Sulahi, who entrusted much of the management of the realm to her. She also enjoyed the privilege of the Khutba - having the Friday's prayer preached in her name - the ultimate proof of sovereignty. In 1067 her husband was taken prisoner on a pilgrimage to Mecca and she was taken prisoner by the Bane Najah family, when she was released she continued to direct her son's rule along with her daughter-in-law 'Arwa, until her death in 1087.



1091-1138 Co-Ruler al-Sayyida al-Hurra Malika 'Arwa bint Ahmad al-Salayhiyya of Yemen

The wife of al-Mukarram Ahmad (1067-84), she was joint ruler with her mother-in-law Queen Asma. After her husband's death she became ruler in her own name, having the Friday's Prayers said in her name. She lived (1047-1137).

Woman Muslim Leaders throughout the Times

Even today Female Imams are resurfacing in several Countries they are slowing regaining the power status they held in the Past
Female imams have important role in China|Society|chinadaily.com.cn
http://www.yale.edu/macmillan/africadissent/rausch.pdf

How many Female Presidents has the US had? Every Islamic Nation has had Female Heads of State.
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