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Old 09-18-2015, 02:14 AM
 
226 posts, read 123,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I person with even a rudimentary knowledge of Islam is aware that Harming Innocent people, and suicide by one's own free will are acts that can result in eternal hellfire, it is not martyrdom.

Islam is very individual. Muslims are not clones to eachother and since most Muslims learn Islam either from their Mothers or on their own you will find a very large variation in our individual beliefs.

there is no central Islamic teaching that all 1.5 billion of us follow.

On the one hand, you are saying, "that isn't what Islam is like", and on the other you are saying, "Islam is very individual".

Thing is, is that some people with a perfectly good knowledge of Islam are going to disagree with you about suicide bombing. Not only that, but from within that worldview, they actually have a reasonable argument that it's distinct from the "sinful" type of suicide. So we can say that Muslims disagree over this. But you can't say it isn't "real Islam" right?



Let's look at an Islamic site:

Are Martyr Operations Considered Suicide? - Jihad: Rulings & Regulations - counsels - OnIslam.net



Question: As-salamu `alykum. Some people say that the operations carried out by Palestinians are considered suicidal acts and not a kind of jihad, is that true? Please tell me whether these acts are martyr operations and a kind of striving in Allah's Cause or not?


Answer...


Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) strictly forbade suicide and made it clear that anyone who commits suicide would be cast into hell. But in such case suicide means Muslim's killing himself without any lawfully accepted reason or killing himself to escape pain or social problems.

On the other hand, in martyr operations, the Muslim sacrifices his own life for the sake of performing a religious duty, which is jihad against the enemy as scholars say. Accordingly, a Muslim's intention when committing suicide is certainly different from his intention when performing a military operation and dying in the Cause of Almighty Allah. So it is natural that the religious legal status would differ in each case, as Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) says in a hadith: "Actions are but by intention, and every man shall have but that which he intended."

This means that martyr operations are totally different from the forbidden suicide. Concerning the Palestinians, they carry out the operations in showing resistance to the aggression launched by the enemy who has occupied their land, destroyed their houses, desecrated their sacred places and driven about four million of them out of their houses, replacing them with even larger numbers of Jewish settlements.

The enemy relies on sophisticated military equipments while, at the same time, denying the Palestinians their basic human rights, killing their women, children and men mercilessly, and rendering the Palestinians powerless and incapable of defending themselves—even all the Arab countries face the same fate, lacking necessary weapons.

So the Palestinians have nothing in their disposal but stones which they throw at their enemy in order to defend their country. This, despite its indication of a high morale, cannot deter the enemy this way. So the Palestinians resort to martyr operations, in which the martyr blows himself/herself up, sacrificing his life for the sake of his country and inflicting serious but reciprocal harms on the enemy.

In the light of the above-mentioned facts, I believe that those missions are a sacred duty carried out in form of self-defense and resisting aggression and injustice. So whoever is killed in such missions is a martyr, may Allah bless him with high esteem. I call on every Palestinian not to hesitate in carrying out such operations as long as they are the only way of making jihad and are made with an intention of sacrificing one's life for the Sake of one's religion and nation. I wish that other scholars who hesitate concerning such a matter to reconsider their views according to what I have said and what other scholars have said. May Allah guide us all to what is right.

 
Old 09-18-2015, 02:20 AM
 
226 posts, read 123,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Without getting into the 'turn the other cheek' aspect of Christianity (as an anti-theist I'm not going to be an apologist for the religion), its saving grace is that it's become more 'secularized' than Islam.

There is more of a difference between the religions than just that.

In Christianity, the early Christians (i.e. original) aren't linked to warfare. There are no commands to wage war in the New Testament. Christianity never had a doctrine anything like "jihad" with such strong roots in the religion.
 
Old 09-18-2015, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProcess View Post
On the one hand, you are saying, "that isn't what Islam is like", and on the other you are saying, "Islam is very individual".

Thing is, is that some people with a perfectly good knowledge of Islam are going to disagree with you about suicide bombing. Not only that, but from within that worldview, they actually have a reasonable argument that it's distinct from the "sinful" type of suicide. So we can say that Muslims disagree over this. But you can't say it isn't "real Islam" right?
The basis of their reasonable argument is from the Quran;

Question:
Are suicide bombings justified or condemned under Islam?

Summary Answer:
Suicide is against Islam. Martyrdom is not.


"Suicide bomber" is a derogatory term invented in the West to try and describe what in Islam is known as a Fedayeen or Shahid - amartyr. The point of the bomber isn't suicide - it is to kill infidels in battle. This is not just permitted by Muhammad, but encouraged with liberal promises of earthy rewards in heaven, including food and sex.

Supporting verses from:

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:74) -"Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious,on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Qur'an (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden ( of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Qur'an (2:207) - "And there is the type of man who gives his life to earn the pleasure of Allah..."

Qur'an (61:10-12) "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement." This verse was given at the battle Uhud anduses the Arabic word, Jihad.

The dark-eyed virginsare mentioned in several places as well, including verses 44:54 and 52:20. For those who swing the other way,there are"perpetual youth" verse 6:17, otherwise known as"boys"verses 52:24 and 76:19.

Qur'an (17:33) "And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right"
An important verse that is used by Shahid to not only justify their own deaths, but that of other bystanders who might be believers as well. The end justifies the means, with the goal being thedefeat of the kafir and the establishment of Islamic rule.

Link:










 
Old 09-18-2015, 06:23 AM
 
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How do peaceful people who value life deal with such an ideology? They want us dead and and think we will be suffering everlasting torture. They embrace death and think they will be experiencing a never ending orgy of food and sex and drunkenness. Life is not the standard of value for Islam. Death is. How do you protect your life against such an ideology?
 
Old 09-18-2015, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Woodrow, I think you're a good guy, but in a desire to defend your faith - it seems that you might be in denial. You point out that those prone to violence will find a way to rationalize that violence. Well, what is it about Islam that apparently makes it a ready vehicle for that? And, you refer to 'innocent people'. Who are they? Those who might question or criticize Islam? Those who would reject it due to disbelief? Those who happen to be from a country that attacked people who are Muslim? All very subjective. In spite of the individuality you cite, there are large minorities of Muslims - who, in terms of identify, and an anger re others, seem pretty united.
Just my own theory I find that many Mideaterners are anti-Westerners. Not because they are Muslims but because they feel the Western nations have created the instability that has plagued the Mideast since WWl.

The vast majority of violence attributed to Muslim has bee done by Muslims from the Mideast, yet they are only 15-20% of the world's Muslims.

In my opinion when the Qur'an speaks of "innocent people" they are those that are not engaged in physical warfare. Even then it extends to all women, elderly, Children, those that are disabled, clergy of any religion and bystanders.Huhammad(saws) did lay out 10 rules of war, that Muslims are to abice by even if attacked

Quote:
10 Islamic Rules of War

Before engaging in battle, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) instructed his soldiers:

1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)

2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)

3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)

4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.” (Al-Muwatta)

5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)

6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan Abu Dawud)

8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)

9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan Abu Dawud).

10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
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Old 09-18-2015, 09:00 AM
 
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Oh, so now you refer to the hadiths! LOL

"1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)"

It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: “They are from them.” (Sahih Muslim 4322, see also Bukhari 52:256)

"…two singing-girls Fartana and her friend who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he ordered that they should be killed…” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 819)

Muhammad used a catapult against he city of Taif, which kills indiscriminately.

Muhammad sent his adopted son, Zayd bin Haritha, on a raid against a tribe that wanted nothing to do with Islam. The captured women included Umm Qirfa:

"She was a very old woman, wife of Malik. Her daughter [and another] were also taken. Zayd ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly by putting a rope between her legs and to two camels and driving them until they rent her in two)." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 980) (The woman’s daughter was then doled out to one of her Muslim killers).

There were also several women that the prophet of Islam ordered killed for adultery. One example:

"He went to her in the morning and she made a confession. And Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made pronouncement about her and she was stoned to death." (Sahih Muslim 4209)

Asma bint Marwan, a poet and mother of five: For the crime of "displaying disaffection" at the Muslim murder of an elderly man (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 995), the "apostle" ordered her executed in the dead of night.

The brutal murder of this woman by an assassin - who had to remove a suckling infant before plunging the knife into her breast - is recounted here, as is Muhammad’s glee on hearing that his order had been successfully carried out.
The Death of `Asma' Bint Marwan

2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)

"Zayd (Muhammad's adopted son) ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly by putting a rope between her legs and to two camels and driving them until they rent her in two)." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 980)

"Then I cut off his head and brought it to the apostle saying, “This is the head of the enemy of Allah, Abu Jahl.”… I threw his head before the apostle and he gave thanks to Allah." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 451).

Muhammad permitted deceit in three situations: to reconcile two or more quarreling parties; husband to wife and vice-versa; and in war (See Sahih Muslim B32N6303, deemed an "authentic" hadith).

“I said (would you attack) my prisoners? But... The people formed a ring around us as I was protecting him. Then a man drew his sword and cut off his son’s foot so that he fell down and Umayya [the boy’s father] let out a cry such as I have never heard… They hewed them to pieces with their swords until they were dead.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 449)

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you should join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261)

3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)

Are you joking? This is a rule of war??!! Steal all of what people worked so hard to produce. Slaughter the men and rape and enslave or sell the women, but save the palm trees!!

4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.” (Al-Muwatta)

What does this have to do with war?

Muslim Book 026, Number 5564:
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who killed a gecko with the first stroke for him is such and such a reward, and he who killed it with a second stroke for him is such and such reward less than the first one, and he who killed it with the third stroke for him is such and such a reward less than the second one.

Sunan of Abu Dawud Book 41, Number 5229:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud:
The Prophet said: Kill all the snakes, and he who fears their revenge does not belong to me.

Muslim, Book 010, Number 3813:
Abu Zubair heard Jabir b. 'Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) saying: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) ordered us to kill dogs, and we carried out this order so much so that we also kill the dog coming with a woman from the desert. Then Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) forbade their killing. He (the Holy Prophet further) said: It is your duty to kill the jet-black (dog) having two spots (on the eyes), for it is a devil.

5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)

huh? This is a family argument. Not war.

6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)



7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan Abu Dawud)

Just steal them:

We met the workers of Khaybar coming out in the morning with their spades and baskets. When they saw the apostle and the army they cried, “Muhammad with his force,” and turned tail and fled… The apostle seized the property piece by piece… (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

48:15 Those who remained behind will say when you set out toward the war booty to take it, "Let us follow you." They wish to change the words of Allah . Say, "Never will you follow us. Thus did Allah say before." So they will say, "Rather, you envy us." But [in fact] they were not understanding except a little.

8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)

"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)

The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If you come to a township (which has surrendered without a formal war) and stay therein, you have a share (that will be in the form of an award) in (the properties obtained from) it. If a township disobeys Allah and His Messenger (and actually fights against the Muslims) one-fifth of the booty seized therefrom is for Allah and His Apostle and the rest is for you. (Sahih Muslim 4346)

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them (9:5)

We met the workers of Khaybar coming out in the morning with their spades and baskets. When they saw the apostle and the army they cried, “Muhammad with his force,” and turned tail and fled… The apostle seized the property piece by piece… (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

When the apostle raided a people he waited until the morning. If he heard a call to prayer he held back; if he did not hear it he attacked. We came to Khaybar by night, and the apostle passed the night there; and when morning came he did not hear the call to prayer, so he rode and we rode with him. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

Allah's Messenger called Ali [and said]: “Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory,” and Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: “Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?” Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: ”Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger…” (Sahih Muslim 5917)

9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan Abu Dawud).

But go ahead and behead them, mutilate them, torture them, cut off their hands and feet,
They were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died. (Sahih Muslim 4131 -this account is also confirmed by at least three other narrations).

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides. (Quran 5:33)

When he [Muhammad] asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr bin al-Awwam, “Torture him until you extract what he has.” So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad bin Maslama and he struck off his head.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 764)

Was Muhammed the Lord of Fire??

10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)

Laughable. See above quotes.
 
Old 09-18-2015, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,325,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Those Christians in the Vietnam War were of these sort but they were not inspired by verses in the religion per-se. Rather they were brainwashed into violence by the US Army.
Do you think ISIS, the Taliban or AlQaeda are not brainwashing otherwise docile Muslims? There is no predominantly Muslim sovereign nation that is waging war against another nation. To do so would be an unacceptable breach of Islamic doctrine, but it's perfectly OK for Christian nations to run around the world trying to resolve all their differences with shock and awe as the default tactic of choice to send the right message.

The only reason the US Army is not a Christian entity is because the USA just happens to have a constitutional provision to obstruct establishment of religion. But Christian morals and ethics, nevertheless, are the underpinnings of all that the US Army does, just as much so as Muslim doctrine drives policy in Islamic states..

So far, this discussion has only shown that the US government is on an equal moral footing with ISIS and other radical factions, both of them far more violent than the recognized sovereign governments of any predominantly Islamic nations.

Last edited by jtur88; 09-18-2015 at 10:54 AM..
 
Old 09-18-2015, 11:11 AM
 
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"Do you think ISIS, the Taliban or AlQaeda are not brainwashing otherwise docile Muslims?"

Why would 'docile' people choose to follow an ideology that demands terrorism and hate and endless torture of non-believers and rape and murder? I think that these people have been brainwashed before ISIS, the Taliban or AlQaeda get hold of them. Personally, I'm docile and if one of these groups came after me to join them, I'd run for the hills. And, turn them in!

"There is no predominantly Muslim sovereign nation that is waging war against another nation."

Started with Muhammed and the Arabian Peninsula, then from the borders of China and India, across Central Asia, the Middle East, North Africa, Sicily, and the Iberian Peninsula, to the Pyrenees. Then the attack and collapse of the Sassanid Empire and a great territorial loss and collapse of the Byzantine Empire...Byzantine Egypt, Palestine and Syria. North Africa, Cypress, Constantinople, Hispania, Georgia, Crete, Sicily, Italy, Persia and Mesopotamia, Afghanistan, Turkestan, India....
 
Old 09-18-2015, 11:15 AM
 
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A very good article to seriously and honestly consider:

Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components.

Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called ‘religious rights.’

When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to ‘the reasonable’ Muslim demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table. Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).

As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

United States — Muslim 1.0%
Australia — Muslim 1.5%
Canada — Muslim 1.9%
China — Muslim 1%-2%
Italy — Muslim 1.5%
Norway — Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

Denmark — Muslim 2%
Germany — Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
Spain — Muslim 4%
Thailand — Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.

They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. (United States ).

France — Muslim 8%
Philippines — Muslim 5%
Sweden — Muslim 5%
Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago — Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris –car-burnings) . Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam – Mohammed cartoons).

Guyana — Muslim 10%
India — Muslim 13.4%
Israel — Muslim 16%
Kenya — Muslim 10%
Russia — Muslim 10-15%

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:


Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:

Bosnia — Muslim 40%
Chad — Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

Albania — Muslim 70%
Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
Sudan — Muslim 70%

After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
Egypt — Muslim 90%
Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
Iran — Muslim 98%
Iraq — Muslim 97%
Jordan — Muslim 92%
Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan — Muslim 97%
Palestine — Muslim 99%
Syria — Muslim 90%
Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace — there’s supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:

Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
Somalia — Muslim 100%
Yemen — Muslim 99.9%

Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.

‘Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. – Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’

It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France, the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity. Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average would indicate.

FrontPage Magazine - What Islam Isn't
 
Old 09-18-2015, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Do you think ISIS, the Taliban or AlQaeda are not brainwashing otherwise docile Muslims?
It is obvious ISIS and others are brainwashing Muslims. The critical point is those in ISIS and the likes are brainwashing those Muslims based on genuine verses from the Quran.
Most jihadists would not dare to influence others based on their own personal views other than what is sanctioned in the Quran. Jihadist Muslims know very well if they ever deviate from the Quran, they will go to hell.

On the other hand, the US Army and others armies do not belong to a specific religion and they do not inspire their soldiers from any specific religious texts. Their brainwashing are typical and conventional. In addition, the US Army comprised of soldiers from all religions and the secular.

Quote:
There is no predominantly Muslim sovereign nation that is waging war against another nation. To do so would be an unacceptable breach of Islamic doctrine, but it's perfectly OK for Christian nations to run around the world trying to resolve all their differences with shock and awe as the default tactic of choice to send the right message.
What is Saudi Arabia doing with Yemen at present. Note the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq.
The US is not a Christian nation even though the majority are Christians.

Quote:
The only reason the US Army is not a Christian entity is because the USA just happens to have a constitutional provision to obstruct establishment of religion. But Christian morals and ethics, nevertheless, are the underpinnings of all that the US Army does, just as much so as Muslim doctrine drives policy in Islamic states..
If the US Army is influenced by Christian principles, then we would be expecting the soldiers to 'love their enemies' and 'give their other cheek' instead of having to kill them in a war situation.

Quote:
So far, this discussion has only shown that the US government is on an equal moral footing with ISIS and other radical factions, both of them far more violent than the recognized sovereign governments of any predominantly Islamic nations.
Nah.. it cannot be comparable in this case.
ISIS and the likes are inspired directly by a religion and its relevant verses from their holy texts. This explains why Islam [in part] is so violent -OP.

The US Government is driven by its non-religious Constitution. Any of its issues should be dealt politically in the Political Forums not in a 'Religious & Spirituality' forum as in here.
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