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Old 01-18-2015, 05:51 PM
 
1,728 posts, read 1,331,452 times
Reputation: 1080

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Why, when faced with...

*People who draw cartoons, and
*People who slaughter cartoonists

...would anyone focus on the actions of the cartoonists and not the mass-murderers?

Everything is the subject of satire. When are people going to get over the child-like attitude that somehow religion is special and above this sort of criticism?
Right on! I agree with everything you wrote.

People are blaming the victims here and it is shocking anyone would do that. They did nothing wrong at all. It's like telling the woman who is in an abusive relationship that maybe she should try harder not to make her husband mad.
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Old 01-18-2015, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,113,133 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
In the United States, what should be done with a person who makes fun of a god or Jesus or Muhammad?

Should they be punished in any way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Punished? No, someone should nudge them and say, "Shhh, not cool."

I am glad you agree the person should not be punished.

Do you think the person would care what you think is cool or not?

Do you think it is good manners to tell people "Shhh"?
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Old 01-18-2015, 08:07 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
15,106 posts, read 13,790,331 times
Reputation: 6473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post

E
XACTLY!!!
It is juvenile and egotistical...aka, not very smart or kind or respectful.
Mohammed was an ok guy...just because some nutty followers go around killing people,
ya don't make fun of their worshipped leader.

In fact that is when you STOP making fun of their leader.
In fact, anyone that carries automatic weapons is off limits, period, to make fun of...
it has nothing to do with free speech it has to do with wisdom.

Edit: I swear I wrote this before I read the word 'wisdom' used so much in the previous post!
I do that ...post and read later! Ha!
Religion should not be exempt from mockery and criticism. When someone gets so offended by something as simple as a cartoon or even just a statement, you can't help but question the foundation of the offendee's beliefs.

Your views on this matter are a sad mix of political correctness and surrender to the threats from radical Muslims.
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:35 PM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,165,342 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
EXACTLY!!!
It is juvenile and egotistical...aka, not very smart or kind or respectful.
Mohammed was an ok guy...just because some nutty followers go around killing people,
ya don't make fun of their worshipped leader.

In fact that is when you STOP making fun of their leader.
In fact, anyone that carries automatic weapons is off limits, period, to make fun of...
it has nothing to do with free speech it has to do with wisdom.

Edit: I swear I wrote this before I read the word 'wisdom' used so much in the previous post!
I do that ...post and read later! Ha!




Wait a minute - religions, period, are juvenile. They are the ultimate child-parent dependency development stagnancy.

Your right to believe whatever you want is protected, and I respect that right. However, your actual beliefs may be preposterous - they may even be disgusting to me. (I can think of plenty of religious beliefs that are downright reprehensible).

As for freedom of speech.. it only exists when someone is saying something you don't want to hear!
Freedom of speech where no one offends anyone else - how is that freedom of speech? That's not freedom of speech, that's "limited speech". That already exists in most places in the World.
Freedom of speech is rarer.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,689 posts, read 5,515,338 times
Reputation: 5373
Freedom of speech means protecting unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition, needs no protection. Can't remember who said that, but it's a good quote.
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:26 AM
 
2,276 posts, read 1,559,500 times
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I remember in school when we learned about Freedom of Speech & one kid asked "does that mean I can spread rumor about someone I don't like because I have freedom of speech". We were taught, it is freedom of speech as long as it doesn't hurt someone else.

People forget that Freedom of Speech comes with a constrains & we must live with in the limit

On side note: yes Jesus have been made fun of by so many that it is a common joke now (may god forgive us for that). And yes Christian have learned to deal with it by ignoring/allowing such jokes to take place. That is the issue and path Muslim are trying to avoid. As soon as they learn to ignore these type of jokes, it will automatically mean they are allowing it. That is when 20 other cartoonist/comedian will start their career at the expense of Prophet Mohammad. In next 50 years, prophet Mohammad will be butt of every joke just as Jesus Christ (Isa AS) has become.

I agree killing was not right but ignoring is not the correct answer. No one should learn to live with insult. Muslim countries should have stop selling oil to France or like, they would have stopped the publication instantly. The action should have came from a government officials not some crazy kids who were frustrated.
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,113,133 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT View Post
We were taught, it is freedom of speech as long as it doesn't hurt someone else.
You were taught wrong.

Freedom of speech often allows us to say and do things that hurt and offend others.

As I said in an earlier post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
We have the right to burn an American flag, fly the Confederate flag, flush a Quran down the toilet, and put a crucifix in a jar of urine.
If any of these actions hurt or offend you, too bad.
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Old 01-21-2015, 01:55 PM
 
1,728 posts, read 1,331,452 times
Reputation: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT View Post
I remember in school when we learned about Freedom of Speech & one kid asked "does that mean I can spread rumor about someone I don't like because I have freedom of speech". We were taught, it is freedom of speech as long as it doesn't hurt someone else.

People forget that Freedom of Speech comes with a constrains & we must live with in the limit

On side note: yes Jesus have been made fun of by so many that it is a common joke now (may god forgive us for that). And yes Christian have learned to deal with it by ignoring/allowing such jokes to take place. That is the issue and path Muslim are trying to avoid. As soon as they learn to ignore these type of jokes, it will automatically mean they are allowing it. That is when 20 other cartoonist/comedian will start their career at the expense of Prophet Mohammad. In next 50 years, prophet Mohammad will be butt of every joke just as Jesus Christ (Isa AS) has become.

I agree killing was not right but ignoring is not the correct answer. No one should learn to live with insult. Muslim countries should have stop selling oil to France or like, they would have stopped the publication instantly. The action should have came from a government officials not some crazy kids who were frustrated.
Yes, there are certain limits to freedom of speech/expression. I can joke about Jesus all day long and make crude comments about him, but if I do it in my front yard in the middle of the night while I am drunk and naked I might get arrested or fined. This has not happened yet, thank God, but one day my neighbors might get fed up with me doing this and call the cops on me.

There are also defamation lawsuits that people can file in certain cases. Making threats is also prohibited.

This will give you more info:
United States free speech exceptions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we made laws based on who gets insulted by what then there would be no speech left. Muhammad is the butt of a lot of jokes already.
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Old 01-21-2015, 02:06 PM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,165,342 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT View Post
I remember in school when we learned about Freedom of Speech & one kid asked "does that mean I can spread rumor about someone I don't like because I have freedom of speech". We were taught, it is freedom of speech as long as it doesn't hurt someone else.

People forget that Freedom of Speech comes with a constrains & we must live with in the limit

On side note: yes Jesus have been made fun of by so many that it is a common joke now (may god forgive us for that). And yes Christian have learned to deal with it by ignoring/allowing such jokes to take place. That is the issue and path Muslim are trying to avoid. As soon as they learn to ignore these type of jokes, it will automatically mean they are allowing it. That is when 20 other cartoonist/comedian will start their career at the expense of Prophet Mohammad. In next 50 years, prophet Mohammad will be butt of every joke just as Jesus Christ (Isa AS) has become.

I agree killing was not right but ignoring is not the correct answer. No one should learn to live with insult. Muslim countries should have stop selling oil to France or like, they would have stopped the publication instantly. The action should have came from a government officials not some crazy kids who were frustrated.

No, that's limited speech. That is widely available in most countries already.

You only have freedom of speech when you permit someone to say something you don't want to hear. Freedom of speech and freedom of thought are basic and universal human rights that apply to all humans, they transcend individual religions and individual cultures.

Many people find the major religions reprehensible and violative of human rights in what they exhort. Respecting your right to your religion is not the same as respecting everything that religion teaches. Religions are not some non-negotiable truth - they are human ideas and human beliefs, and like all ideas and beliefs are subject to thought, criticism and sometimes ridicule.
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Old 01-21-2015, 04:56 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,087,992 times
Reputation: 4527
Most people would mock adults who:

Still believed in Santa Claus and told all about it
Still believed in the Easter Bunny and told all about it
Still believed in the Tooth Fairy and told all about it
Still believed in the Sandman and told all about it
Still believed in Unicorns and told all about it
Still believed in Leprechauns and told all about it
Still believed in Fairies and told all about it

So why should adults NOT be mocked who believe in some sky king?

Same poop, different pile. Just because 1 billion of your closest fellow believers think the same way, doesn't make it right. If you believe in myths promulgated 1000's of years ago, yeah, you can be mocked. Get over it.
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