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Old 01-21-2015, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,452 posts, read 3,008,520 times
Reputation: 2052

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Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT View Post
I remember in school when we learned about Freedom of Speech & one kid asked "does that mean I can spread rumor about someone I don't like because I have freedom of speech". We were taught, it is freedom of speech as long as it doesn't hurt someone else.

People forget that Freedom of Speech comes with a constrains & we must live with in the limit

On side note: yes Jesus have been made fun of by so many that it is a common joke now (may god forgive us for that). And yes Christian have learned to deal with it by ignoring/allowing such jokes to take place. That is the issue and path Muslim are trying to avoid. As soon as they learn to ignore these type of jokes, it will automatically mean they are allowing it. That is when 20 other cartoonist/comedian will start their career at the expense of Prophet Mohammad. In next 50 years, prophet Mohammad will be butt of every joke just as Jesus Christ (Isa AS) has become.

I agree killing was not right but ignoring is not the correct answer. No one should learn to live with insult. Muslim countries should have stop selling oil to France or like, they would have stopped the publication instantly. The action should have came from a government officials not some crazy kids who were frustrated.
You may be right, or not. However, you have the right idea about discouraging violence, even for the people who want blasphemous cartoonists dead...because Charlie Hebdo is a martyred hero now in many people's eyes.

I just saw this at the end of an episode of the long-time running adult cartoon show "The Simpsons:"


How 'Simpsons' tribute to Charlie Hebdo came together - Jan. 14, 2015
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,452 posts, read 3,008,520 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT View Post
I remember in school when we learned about Freedom of Speech & one kid asked "does that mean I can spread rumor about someone I don't like because I have freedom of speech". We were taught, it is freedom of speech as long as it doesn't hurt someone else.

People forget that Freedom of Speech comes with a constrains & we must live with in the limit

On side note: yes Jesus have been made fun of by so many that it is a common joke now (may god forgive us for that). And yes Christian have learned to deal with it by ignoring/allowing such jokes to take place. That is the issue and path Muslim are trying to avoid. As soon as they learn to ignore these type of jokes, it will automatically mean they are allowing it. That is when 20 other cartoonist/comedian will start their career at the expense of Prophet Mohammad. In next 50 years, prophet Mohammad will be butt of every joke just as Jesus Christ (Isa AS) has become.

I agree killing was not right but ignoring is not the correct answer. No one should learn to live with insult. Muslim countries should have stop selling oil to France or like, they would have stopped the publication instantly. The action should have came from a government officials not some crazy kids who were frustrated.

Going back to this again, regarding the part in bold...I don't think so. I would hope westerners are less shallow than that.

To a lot of Americans blasphemy laws are more than just irritating...they're evil. Many people feel like they're standing up for justice and goodness by fighting them. Killing people for blasphemy is therefore the ultimate evil. I know several people who believe than the citizens of any country that don't want all blasphemy laws repealed instantly, including Pakistan, are very foolish.

I'm doubting the French are as ideological about that sort of thing as Americans are. Nobody seems to be as ideological about such things as Americans are...but ceasing selling oil might make them that way. It'd be better than killing people though. People would view nations that quit selling oil to the west as a more respectable enemy.

I think the only thing keeping the entire west from tipping over and drawing constant blasphemous cartoons are the nicer Muslims like you and Woodrow and many others we don't want to offend. Worry about offending people we respect or like keeps us from tipping over into the blasphemy laws are an evil dragon that must be slain at all costs mentality.
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Lizard Lick, NC
6,145 posts, read 2,874,081 times
Reputation: 1648
My opinion on this matter is Muslims should not have reacted the way they did to this. Certainly they should have addressed this and condemned it but the violence only brought attention to Charlie hebdo and made money for him and the violent reaction of Muslims made people more fearful of them. in my opinion if we Muslims had ignored this issue Charlie hebdo would not have sold many magazines and the issue wont be that big. Who even knew who Charlie hebdo was tell us Muslims reacted violently to his cartoons and brought lotsss of media attention on him?
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,387 posts, read 24,221,437 times
Reputation: 8877
Quote:
Originally Posted by muslim12 View Post
My opinion on this matter is Muslims should not have reacted the way they did to this. Certainly they should have addressed this and condemned it but the violence only brought attention to Charlie Hebdo and made money for him and the violent reaction of Muslims made people more fearful of them. in my opinion if we Muslims had ignored this issue Charlie Hebdo would not have sold many magazines and the issue wont be that big. Who even knew who Charlie Hebdo was tell us Muslims reacted violently to his cartoons and brought lots of media attention on him?
Charlie Hebdo was heading in bankruptcy before the Muslim reaction. But instead sent them in the other direction of printing 5 Million copies instead of 60,000.
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:51 PM
 
3,404 posts, read 2,260,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muslim12 View Post
My opinion on this matter is Muslims should not have reacted the way they did to this. Certainly they should have addressed this and condemned it but the violence only brought attention to Charlie hebdo and made money for him and the violent reaction of Muslims made people more fearful of them. in my opinion if we Muslims had ignored this issue Charlie hebdo would not have sold many magazines and the issue wont be that big. Who even knew who Charlie hebdo was tell us Muslims reacted violently to his cartoons and brought lotsss of media attention on him?
Granted this is a very American viewpoint, but my favorite saying, "The remedy for speech you don't like is more speech." If someone says something you disagree with, say so. Say so loudly, keep saying it, say it to anyone who will listen. But violence, be it individual acts like various terrorists, or institutional like using the government to enforce blasphemy laws, is not the right way. As a previous poster pointed out, it has the opposite of the desired result on many of us.

-NoCapo
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Old 01-22-2015, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,127,447 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by muslim12 View Post
My opinion on this matter is Muslims should not have reacted the way they did to this. Certainly they should have addressed this and condemned it but the violence only brought attention to Charlie hebdo and made money for him and the violent reaction of Muslims made people more fearful of them. in my opinion if we Muslims had ignored this issue Charlie hebdo would not have sold many magazines and the issue wont be that big. Who even knew who Charlie hebdo was tell us Muslims reacted violently to his cartoons and brought lotsss of media attention on him?
You are exactly right.

In the United States you have the right to condemn whatever you want but don't expect anyone to respect your point of view. That's how our society works.

Sure, a lot of Christians were upset when a guy took a picture of a Crucifix in a bucket of urine and called it art. They condemned it, but that's all.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:23 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,123,128 times
Reputation: 4527
Let's see, one shouldn't make fun of Islam, but Mormonism or Scientology is OK to rip apart?

We see both of the latter made fun of in many ways. Why should any other religion get a free pass?
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Old 01-24-2015, 11:31 AM
 
Location: brooklyn, new york, USA
899 posts, read 935,521 times
Reputation: 1300
islam is not a democracy. a 1st amendment concept in the religion of islam simply doesn't exist. if you try it (try to leave islam), you DIE. america is a democracy and is not ruled by religion. people of this nation and other western countries have chosen freedom of speech and expression. if it offends muslims, they can simply leave the western nations and go back to their middle eastern paradise nations...but they won't. if you want to live in the west, you have to assimilate and accept 1st amendment and freedom of expression rights, otherwise leave. you can't have it both ways. you are a guest in a christian-origin nation (if you want to bring religion into the argument).

THAT's why.
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Old 01-24-2015, 12:42 PM
 
Location: South Seattle Suburbs
3,350 posts, read 5,965,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePage View Post
Why continue to draw cartoons of Mohamed when Muslims say this way of doing things is offensive to their faith? I mean some crazy folks are just engaging in unnecessary provocation always making fun of other people's race or religion.
Because people think it's an exercise of free expression ... even though they would reject many other forms of expression they personally found offensive. The Charlie Hebdo incident has a lot more to do with the fact that people like what's being ridiculed than it does with some noble and selfless defense of free speech. Because yes, mocking someone's beliefs is offensive, and free speech can be abused just like any other right can be abused. Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should. The Golden Rule applies, as it always does. That's not a call for government censorship; it's a call for using speech wisely and respectfully. If you know that images of Mohammed cause offense, and then you support the creation of images of Mohammed, you're deliberately provoking and hurting people. We usually call that bullying. Meeting hate (i.e., terrorism) with more hate (i.e., mocking an entire religion for the acts of a few) just creates more hate, sending us in a never-ending downward spiral. Eventually, somebody needs to take the high road.

If people are so eager to defend free expression, then let's see them take to the streets and march in support of Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, Barrett Brown, and John Kiriakou, all of whom are either imprisoned or exiled for using their free speech to expose abuses of power. Let's see them criticize the current administration for harassing journalists (James Risen, James Rosen), subpoenaing AP phone records, or pushing Yemen to keep journalist Abdulelah Shaye in prison.

The "free expression" angle rings hollow, because when push comes to shove, you see that most people aren't as rabidly in support of free speech as they say they are. Nor do they need to be, because some speech doesn't deserve support. If some vigilante opened fire at a KKK rally and killed a bunch of Klansmen, I'm not going to start running around proclaiming "I am the Klan" in solidarity. I'll mourn the violence, the deaths, and the hate, but that's about it.

People don't seem to understand that the First Amendment wasn't written for racists and pornographers to hide behind. It's not carte blanche to demean and insult whoever we want, whenever we want, without consequence. It was written primarily to defend our right to speak out against our elected leaders without fear of reprisal. Which is exactly what people like Snowden, Assange, Manning, et al. have done. Manning uncovered the deaths of two Reuters journalists in Iraq at the hands of U.S. forces. Where's the outpouring of support for those journalists, who were just doing their job and did nothing to offend anybody when they got mowed down? Where's the support for Manning, who was just the messenger? The perpetrators walk free, while Manning sits in prison for 35 years.

It's all so hypocritical!
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Old 01-24-2015, 12:45 PM
 
Location: South Seattle Suburbs
3,350 posts, read 5,965,439 times
Reputation: 3528
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Let's see, one shouldn't make fun of Islam, but Mormonism or Scientology is OK to rip apart?

We see both of the latter made fun of in many ways. Why should any other religion get a free pass?
Why make fun of any of them?
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