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Old 01-27-2015, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,200,551 times
Reputation: 3039

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Freedom of speech means protecting unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition, needs no protection. Can't remember who said that, but it's a good quote.
Google is your friend!

Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition, needs no protection.
-- Neal Boortz


Read more at Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition, needs no protection. - Neal Boortz at BrainyQuote

I have no clue who Neal Boortz is off the top of my head, but there you go. Now you know who said it.

I think it's an excellent quote.
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Old 01-27-2015, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,959 posts, read 22,113,760 times
Reputation: 10690
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleynj View Post
It would be one thing if people went to people's worship places and started saying things about their religious figures and started handing out offensive materials. Sure, that would be rude. People don't do that though.
You couldn't be more wrong. I see that godofthunder has already posted some pictures of what happens every single solitary time the LDS (Mormon) semi-annual General Conference comes around. How would you like to have to walk through this group of people before you entered your place of worship? It would really put you in a great mood, huh?
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,113,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
You couldn't be more wrong. I see that godofthunder has already posted some pictures of what happens every single solitary time the LDS (Mormon) semi-annual General Conference comes around. How would you like to have to walk through this group of people before you entered your place of worship? It would really put you in a great mood, huh?
Well, it sure put me in a good mood to realize that one group of Americans has so much decency and respect for the Constitution that they will allow the demonstrators to freely express their opinions.

With all the whining and complaining we hear from different groups these days, the civility and excellent behavior shown by the Mormons in this situation is truly inspiring.
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Old 01-27-2015, 03:24 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,089,056 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Well, it sure put me in a good mood to realize that one group of Americans has so much decency and respect for the Constitution that they will allow the demonstrators to freely express their opinions.

With all the whining and complaining we hear from different groups these days, the civility and excellent behavior shown by the Mormons in this situation is truly inspiring.
Although I think the Mormon religion is way out there on the theological scale, virtually all the Mormons I know, (and I know a lot), I have the utmost respect for as people and that they live what they preach. Unlike many other sects or religions, they do more than just talk about how to live, they actually do live that way. Wonderful family and community values, and most actually practice the integrity they preach.

I still think their religion is nutso, but one has to respect the outcomes. And I do.
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,200,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Although I think the Mormon religion is way out there on the theological scale, virtually all the Mormons I know, (and I know a lot), I have the utmost respect for as people and that they live what they preach. Unlike many other sects or religions, they do more than just talk about how to live, they actually do live that way. Wonderful family and community values, and most actually practice the integrity they preach.

I still think their religion is nutso, but one has to respect the outcomes. And I do.
Ha! Name me a religion that you don't think is nutso!!
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Old 01-27-2015, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,959 posts, read 22,113,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Although I think the Mormon religion is way out there on the theological scale, virtually all the Mormons I know, (and I know a lot), I have the utmost respect for as people and that they live what they preach. Unlike many other sects or religions, they do more than just talk about how to live, they actually do live that way. Wonderful family and community values, and most actually practice the integrity they preach.
I'm sure that nothing I could possibly say about my religion would make you think it was not "nutso." On the other hand, I strongly suspect that much of our being "way out there on the theological scale" is more misunderstanding than anything else. What I'm trying to say is that much of what non-Mormons think they "know" about Mormon theology is based on caricature and not reality. In other words, Jack Chick would probably not explain the Mormon doctrine of eternal progression the same way I would. When people's intent is to make a religion's beliefs look "nutso," the way they explain that religion can make all the difference in the world.

Quote:
I still think their religion is nutso, but one has to respect the outcomes. And I do.
As far as I'm concerned, a truly nutso religion couldn't really produce quality fruit. Mormons are who they are because of their theology, not despite it.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:41 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,089,056 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Ha! Name me a religion that you don't think is nutso!!
Hmmm.... let me think about this.

Nope, can't think of one.

In all seriousness, I think I 'get' Buddhism, but as many point out, it is as much a philosophy as it is a religion. I would change my mind in a heartbeat if all those wondrous omnipotent beings that a religion holds as the key to an afterlife were to indicate to me, or to a public venue, by actually showing up in the manner so often described in those myriads of holy books.

Till that happens, and it won't, I'll continue to think of religions as out there in myth land.

It's just a logical thing to do.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:50 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,089,056 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I'm sure that nothing I could possibly say about my religion would make you think it was not "nutso." On the other hand, I strongly suspect that much of our being "way out there on the theological scale" is more misunderstanding than anything else. What I'm trying to say is that much of what non-Mormons think they "know" about Mormon theology is based on caricature and not reality. In other words, Jack Chick would probably not explain the Mormon doctrine of eternal progression the same way I would. When people's intent is to make a religion's beliefs look "nutso," the way they explain that religion can make all the difference in the world.
I'm pretty sure that I do not base my perception of Mormon theology based on what is in the press, nor do I think I misunderstand Mormonism. Suffice it to say, as in most other religions, it purports to have the key to an afterlife that by defining an omnipotent supernatural being that controls the door to a wondrous eternal life. As with other religions, there are not substantiations beyond faith.

Quote:
As far as I'm concerned, a truly nutso religion couldn't really produce quality fruit. Mormons are who they are because of their theology, not despite it.
For whatever reason, Mormons certainly seem to live a life that includes focusing on family and community, and do it in a positive manner. I admire that, as many religions suggest that they do the same, yet one sees a much greater proportion of dysfunctional families, and often very little effort at building a community beyond their own faith groups.

As I said, I admire that, I admire the work ethic, and still think the theological side is nutso.

I just have an open mind that way.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,959 posts, read 22,113,760 times
Reputation: 10690
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
I'm pretty sure that I do not base my perception of Mormon theology based on what is in the press, nor do I think I misunderstand Mormonism. Suffice it to say, as in most other religions, it purports to have the key to an afterlife that by defining an omnipotent supernatural being that controls the door to a wondrous eternal life. As with other religions, there are not substantiations beyond faith.



For whatever reason, Mormons certainly seem to live a life that includes focusing on family and community, and do it in a positive manner. I admire that, as many religions suggest that they do the same, yet one sees a much greater proportion of dysfunctional families, and often very little effort at building a community beyond their own faith groups.

As I said, I admire that, I admire the work ethic, and still think the theological side is nutso.

I just have an open mind that way.
Fair enough.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,200,551 times
Reputation: 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Ha! Name me a religion that you don't think is nutso!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Hmmm.... let me think about this.

Nope, can't think of one.

In all seriousness, I think I 'get' Buddhism, but as many point out, it is as much a philosophy as it is a religion. I would change my mind in a heartbeat if all those wondrous omnipotent beings that a religion holds as the key to an afterlife were to indicate to me, or to a public venue, by actually showing up in the manner so often described in those myriads of holy books.

Till that happens, and it won't, I'll continue to think of religions as out there in myth land.

It's just a logical thing to do.
I gotta say I was highly amused by your statement. An atheist calling any religion crazy or in any way questioning the mental health of religious. That's like saying that water is wet and sand is sandy. It's just so obvious.

If you were a space alien encountering our planet's religions for the first time ever, Mormonism would be pretty average on the weirdness scale. Many older and insanely complex religions would get a much bigger reaction. But since those religions are part of our culture, we don't tend to think of them as wackadoo crazy. In Catholicism, you have sacred drinking cups, sacred spears, sacred bits of wood, sacred bits of human corpses, magical water, celibacy, self torture and a whole host of really weird stuff. But it's all part of cultural norms for us, so we don't think of it that way. Mormonism gets poked fun of things that are probably significantly less weird. Case in point, there's this obsession with "Magic Mormon Underwear." Take the time to have a Mormon explain and you realize that there's a logical purpose to it all. Take a short sleeve white undershirt and a longish pair of boxers, and you've got what Mormon's call "the garment of the holy priesthood." You are to wear it at all times and whatever you wear over it must cover the garments completely. This draws a line of modest dress in the sand. If it fails to cover the garment, you don't wear it. As a result, you're not going to run into many Mormon women walking down the street wearing a halter-top and micro-skirt. You won't see many Mormon men walking around with no shirt at all or wearing a "wife beater" shirt. That makes a lot more logical sense to me than revering a sacred skull like this one - the skull of Saint Ivo of Kermartin.

You say that Buddhism is a tad less crazy. Perhaps in it's most basic original form. Modern forms of Buddhism pretty much everything you say you find distasteful in religion. The original form was created within Hinduism and must be understood as having presupposed the existence and influence of all gods in the Hindu pantheon.

Islam is perhaps the simplest major world religion. If it weren't so prone to creating so much bad fruit, I would say that it is the best of all non-Christian religions.

Quote:
As with other religions, there are not substantiations beyond faith.
And perhaps the reason that faith is so important is because the exercise of faith is something that God desperately wants from us -- for our own sakes. Perhaps it's like teaching a child to walk for the first time. By exerting belief in the unseen, we grow and learn something that will be used constantly in the next life. Clearly, God wants us to find him through faith and I don't think that's any accident.
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