U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-13-2015, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,310 times
Reputation: 152

Advertisements

Saudi Arabia.
- The birth place of the Mohammad.
- The destination of muslim pilgrims.
- The location of the Kaaba, the focal point of muslim prayers.
- The single most influential muslim state in the world.
- Arguably the most religious/islamic nation on earth.

As such it is viewed by many people as the heart of the muslim world, if not the representative of Islam.

and yet....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You have some mistaken views.
While it is true Medinah and Mecca are the 2 holiest places for Muslims , many of us have consisderable animosity against the al-Sa'ud Family for conquering Najd and Hejaz.

Saudi Arabia is a fairly new nation formed in 1929 by the al-Sa'ud family and the Muslim world often has little love or tolerance of the al-Sa'uds.

World wide they are viewed as puppets of Western Oil companies.

You may want to read a short History of the KSA HERE and HERE

The al-Sa'ud family does little funding of Masjids world wide and most will not take it if offered.
Nearly every Masjid is funded by local families very often by just one person
if you are building a Masjid do not count on help from the al-Sa'ud family AND IF THEY DO OFFER, DO NOT ACCEPT IT Their wealth was stolen from the Arab people, and as stolen wealth should be considered Haram to even touch.

Very few Imams are Saudis they are typically not trusted nor wanted.

Most Imams world wide are simply the oldest person in the community and not paid. Few Imams are "Professionals" paid and trained. The majority of trained, paid Imams are from Pakistan and India although Indonesia is beginning to develop good schools for the training of Imams. As is Thailand
There are about 700 full time Imams in the USA those with Saudi roots are virtually unheard of.

Many American Imams are American born and have never stepped foot outside the USA,
Of course there are those who are not so happy with the sauds, but is there any other muslim state out there that is closer to the heart of muslims than saudi arabia? turkey? indonesia? pakistan? egypt?

Do you think Saudi Arabia is a puppet? Or is it the one manipulating the world through oil, thats why its the only nation who can get away with human rights abuses.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-13-2015, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
Saudi Arabia.
- The birth place of the Mohammad.
- The destination of muslim pilgrims.
- The location of the Kaaba, the focal point of muslim prayers.
- The single most influential muslim state in the world.
- Arguably the most religious/islamic nation on earth.

As such it is viewed by many people as the heart of the muslim world, if not the representative of Islam.

and yet....



Of course there are those who are not so happy with the sauds, but is there any other muslim state out there that is closer to the heart of muslims than saudi arabia? turkey? indonesia? pakistan? egypt?

Do you think Saudi Arabia is a puppet? Or is it the one manipulating the world through oil, thats why its the only nation who can get away with human rights abuses.


There was no such nation as Saudi Arabia until 1929 and it was not named as such until 1932

The Holy cities of Makkah and Medinah were in the Nation of Hejaz until conqured by the al Saud Family and brought under the Rule of the KSA "Kingdom of Saudi Arabia"

Saudi Arabia is basically 'Aramoco''-Arab American Oil Company and owned by American oil companies
The al-Saud family does not represent Islam, nor the Arabian people.

Only a very small percentage of the World's Muslims are Arab.
The overwhelming majority of Muslims are Asiatic

During the Greatest reign of Isalamic Culture Turkey was the center of the Islamic world
during the time of greatest learning the Islamic Libraries and universities of Egypt were the Center of Islamic knowledge
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2015, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,310 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
There was no such nation as Saudi Arabia until 1929 and it was not named as such until 1932

The Holy cities of Makkah and Medinah were in the Nation of Hejaz until conqured by the al Saud Family and brought under the Rule of the KSA "Kingdom of Saudi Arabia"

Saudi Arabia is basically 'Aramoco''-Arab American Oil Company and owned by American oil companies
The al-Saud family does not represent Islam, nor the Arabian people.
same land, same people, NEW NAME. so whats your point?

and i'm not singling out the sauds here. i am talking about the entire nation of saudi arabia, which in practice is run by islamic clerics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Only a very small percentage of the World's Muslims are Arab.
The overwhelming majority of Muslims are Asiatic
but 100% needs arabic. which makes the arabs the top authorities among muslims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
During the Greatest reign of Isalamic Culture Turkey was the center of the Islamic world
during the time of greatest learning the Islamic Libraries and universities of Egypt were the Center of Islamic knowledge
of course. but we are talking about the present. isnt it that more muslims hate turkey than saudi arabia? and many hate egypt for making peace with israel. today, in this very minute, its Saudi Arabia who is calling the shots in the Muslim (sunni) world. followed by Iran, and then by ISIS.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2015, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
same land, same people, NEW NAME. so whats your point?

and i'm not singling out the sauds here. i am talking about the entire nation of saudi arabia, which in practice is run by islamic clerics.


but 100% needs arabic. which makes the arabs the top authorities among muslims.


of course. but we are talking about the present. isnt it that more muslims hate turkey than saudi arabia? and many hate egypt for making peace with israel. today, in this very minute, its Saudi Arabia who is calling the shots in the Muslim (sunni) world. followed by Iran, and then by ISIS.
No one is calling the shots for Islam. We do not recognize any human central leader and King Abdullah of Saudi has no more power over Muslims than any other Muslim. All Muslims have equal power.
the People of the KSA might be under the power of the al-Saud Family, but the KSA does not represent nor control islam.

Iran is Shi'ite and very few of those who call themself Muslim are shi'ite
The Majority of the World's Muslims do not believe the Shi'ite are Muslim
ISIS is a terrorist regime that has no connection with Islam. They have declared war on all the Muslim nations. A very large percentage if not the majority of ISIS members are European converts with very little knowldege of Islam
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2015, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,310 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
No one is calling the shots for Islam. We do not recognize any human central leader and King Abdullah of Saudi has no more power over Muslims than any other Muslim. All Muslims have equal power.
the People of the KSA might be under the power of the al-Saud Family, but the KSA does not represent nor control islam.
You probably know this is how Saudi Arabia is manipulating the muslim world:
Indonesia's Shi'ite minority is under heavy attack. Men, women, and children have been assaulted, schools damaged, and villages burned to the ground. Many have been killed. It is becoming increasingly clear that Saudi Arabia's intolerant brand of Wahhabi Sunni Islam - propagated far and wide by Saudi oil money - is behind most of assaults.
Asia Times Online :: Wahhabi war waged on Indonesia's Shi'ites


So yes you dont have a formal religious leader, but there are people controlling the strings in the background. And those puppeteers are in Saudi Arabia. Extremists all of them, which is why you have all these problems in your religion all over the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2015, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
You probably know this is how Saudi Arabia is manipulating the muslim world:
Indonesia's Shi'ite minority is under heavy attack. Men, women, and children have been assaulted, schools damaged, and villages burned to the ground. Many have been killed. It is becoming increasingly clear that Saudi Arabia's intolerant brand of Wahhabi Sunni Islam - propagated far and wide by Saudi oil money - is behind most of assaults.
Asia Times Online :: Wahhabi war waged on Indonesia's Shi'ites


So yes you dont have a formal religious leader, but there are people controlling the strings in the background. And those puppeteers are in Saudi Arabia. Extremists all of them, which is why you have all these problems in your religion all over the world.
Much of the Muslim world is fighting Saudi wahhabi'sm and consider it to be heresy
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2015, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
HERE IS A LISTING OF THE WORLD'S TOP iSLAMIC SCHOLARS
Those from Arabia are in the minority

Africa and the Middle East

Muhammad Nasiruddin al-Albani (1914–1999), Albania, lived in Syria.
Ali Gomaa (1952-), Egypt
Umar Sulayman al-Ashqar (1930s-2012), Jordan
Taqiuddin al-Nabhani (1909-1977), Palestine
Hassan al-Banna (1906–1949), Egypt
Sayyid Qutb (1906–1966), Egypt
Muhammad Sayyid Tantawy (1928–2010), Egypt
Rashid Rida (1865–1935), Syria
Abd al-Rahman al-Kawakibi (1849–1902), Syria
Mahmud Shaltut (1893–1963), Egypt
Abd al-Hamid Kishk (1933–1996) Egypt
Mohammed al-Ghazali (1917–1996) Egypt
Sobhi Mahmassani (1909-1986), Lebanon
Saeed Abubakr Zakaria, Ghana
Abdel-Halim Mahmoud (1910–1978), Egypt
Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali (1927-), Morocco
Abdessalam Yassine (1928-2012), Morocco
Abdallah Bin Bayyah (1935-), Mauritania
Abdelhamid Ben Badis (1889–1940), Algeria
Safwat al-Shwadify (1945–2000), Egypt
Aisha Abd al-Rahman (1913–1998), Egypt
Ahmad Muhammad Shakir (1892–1956), Egypt
Abdul Basit 'Abd us-Samad (1927-1988), Egypt
Abdul Qader Arnaoot (1928–2004), Kosovo-born Syrian
Muhammad bin Yahya al-Ninowy Syria
Muhammad Metwally Al Shaarawy (1911–1998), Egypt
Yusuf al-Qaradawi (1926-), Egypt
Yusuf Soalih Ajura (1890-2004), Ghana

The Arabian Peninsula

Ali Jaber (scholar) (1953–2005), Saudi Arabia
Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz (1910–1999), Saudi Arabia
Muhammad ibn al Uthaymeen (1925–2001), Saudi Arabia
Anwar al-Aulaqi (1971–2011), Yemen
Muhammad Al-Munajid (1960–), Saudi Arabia
Saleh Al-Fawzan (1933–), Saudi Arabia
Abdur-Rahman al-Mu'allimee al-Yamani (1894–1966), Yemen-Saudi Arabia
Abdul Majeed al-Zindani (1942-), Yemen
Muhammad Muhsin Khan (1927-), Saudi Arabia
Kamal alHaydari (1956–), Iraq
Abdullah ibn Abdulrahman ibn Jibreen (1933–2009), Saudi Arabia
Habib Umar bin Hafiz (1963 -), Yemen
Habib Ali al-Jifri (1971-), Yemen, now United Arab Emirates
Abdul-Azeez ibn Abdullaah Aal ash-Shaikh (1943 -), Saudi Arabia
Aaidh ibn Abdullah al-Qarni (1960 -), Saudi Arabia
Abdul Rahman Al-Sudais (1960 -), Saudi Arabia
Saud Al-Shuraim (1964 -), Saudi Arabia
Salman al-Ouda (1955 -), Saudi Arabia
Mishari Rashid Al-Afasy (1976 -), Kuwait

South Asia

Muhammad Iqbal (1877-1938), Lahore, Pakistan
Mohammad Abdul Ghafoor Hazarvi (1911–1970)
Abul A'la Maududi (1903-1979) Hyderabad state, India & Pakistan.
Shabir Ahmed Usmani
Allama Muhammad Idrees Dahiri, Pakistan
Muhammad Tahir (1962), Rahmatpur, Pakistan
Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri (1951 to present)
Muhammad Taqi Usmani
Zubair Ali Zai
Talib Jauhari Pakistan.
Ehsan Elahi Zaheer (May 31, 1945 – March 30, 1987)
Ahmad Rafique Akhtar (1941) Gujarkhan
Abd-al-Hamid Siddiqui
Amin Ahsan Islahi (1904–1997)
Inayatullah Khan Mashriqi (1888–1963)
Khalid Masud (1935–2003), Lahore
Khurshid Ahmad (1932), born in Delhi, lives in Lahore, Pakistan
Muhammad Ilyas Qadri (1950 to present)
Syed Shujaat Ali Qadri (1941–1993)
Naseer Ahmad Nasir (1910–2000)
Syed Tatheer Hussain Zaidi (1956), Lahore
Meher Ali Shah,(1856–1937)
Yousuf Ludhianvi (1932–2000)
Zafar Ishaq Ansari (1932)
Allama Muhammad Yousuf Gabriel (1917-2006) Pakistan
Zar Wali Khan (1955)
Tariq Jameel (1953)
Israr Ahmed (1932 - 2010)
Javed Ahmad Ghamidi (1951)
Farhat Hashmi (1957)
Azam Tariq (1954-2003)
Tariq Jameel (1953)
Syed Ahmad Khan (1817-1898) Delhi, India
Ahmed Raza Khan Barelvi (1856–1921) Bareilly, India
Ashraf Ali Thanwi Thana bawn, India .
Abdul Aleem Siddiqi (1892–1954) Meerut-Madina
Kalambadi Muhammad Musliyar (1935-2012) Kerala, India.
Akhtar Raza Khan (1943) Bareilly, India.
Abul Kalam Azad (1888–1958) India
Hashim Amir Ali (1903–1987), Hyderabad, India
Mirza Abul Fazl (1865–1956), Allahabad, India
Jalaluddin Umri (1935), Madras, India
Muhammad Hamidullah (1908–2002), Hyderabad (India) exiled in Paris.
Syed Ahmed Bukhari, Delhi, India
Shibli Nomani (1857–1914), India
Asghar Ali Engineer (b. 1939-2013), India
Husain Ahmed Madani (1879–1957), India
Rashid Ahmad Gangohi (1829–1905), Delhi, India
Muhammad Ilyas al-Kandhlawi (1885–1944), Khandala, India
Omar Khalidi (1953–2010), Hyderabad, India. migrated to US.
Syed Abdullah Bukhari (1922-2009), Delhi, India
Mahmud al-Hasan,(1851–1920) Darul Uloom Deoband
Qazi Athar Mubarakpuri (1916–1996), U.P., India
Saniyasnain Khan (1959), New Delhi, India
Syed Ali Akhtar Rizvi(1948-2002),India
Syed Abul Hasan Ali Hasani Nadwi (1913–1999), India
Syed Aqeel-ul-Gharavi (1964), Delhi, India
Syed Qazi Muzainul Haq (1937-2013), Wasa Dargah, India
Syed Mohsin Nawab Rizvi (1911–1969), Lucknow, India
Wahiduddin Khan (1925), New Delhi, India
Rafique Zakaria (1920-2005), India
Abul Hasan Ali Hasani Nadwi (1913-1999), Raibareli, India
Muhammad Qasim Nanotvi (1833-1880), India
Ali Kutty Musliyar Kerala, India (1945)
Bahauddeen Muhammed Nadwi Kerala, India (1951)

Bangladesh

Azizul Haque (1919-2012), Dhaka, Bangladesh
Abul Kalam Azad (1947), Dhaka, Bangladesh
Hafezzi Huzur, Dhaka, Bangladesh
Muhammad Faizullah (1892-1976), Chittagong, Bangladesh
Muhammad Asadullah Al-Ghalib (1948), Rajshahi, Bangladesh
Saheb Qibla Fultali (1913-2008), Sylhet, Bangladesh
Abdur Rahman (1925), Dhaka & Chittagong, Bangladesh

East and Southeast Asia

Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat (1931-), Malaysia
Syed Muhammad Naquib al-Attas, Malaysia
Muhammad Ma Jian (1906–1978), China
Abdul Aleem Siddiqi (1892–1954), Singapore
Muhammad Sadik Muhammad Yusuf (1952-), Uzbekistan
Alwi Shihab, Indonesia

Central and Eastern Europe

İskilipli Mehmed Atıf Hoca (1875-1926), Turkey
Muhammed Hamdi Yazır (1878-1942), Turkey
Said Nursî (1878-1960), Turkey
Muhammad Nasiruddin al-Albani (1914–1999), Albania
Abdul Qader Arnaoot (1928-2004), Kosovo
Süleyman Ateş (1933-), Turkey
Fethullah Gülen (1941-), Turkey
Mustafa Ceric (1952-), Bosnia
Mehmet Görmez (1959-), Turkey
***** Buğra Ekinci (1966-), Turkey

Western Europe

Ivan Aguéli (1869–1917), Sweden
Tariq Ramadan (1962-), Geneva, Switzerland
Muhammad Asad (1900–1992), Germany
Frithjof Schuon (1907–1998), Switzerland

United Kingdom

Mohammad Akram Nadwi (1964-), Oxford, England
Muhammad Abdul Bari (1953-), London, England
Ajmal Masroor (1971-), London
Timothy Winter (Abdal Hakim Murad) (1960-), London, England
Yusuf Motala (1946-), Lancashire, England
Marmaduke Pickthall (1875–1936), Surrey, England
Martin Lings (1909–2005), Kent, England
Abu-Abdullah Adelabu, London, England
Haitham al-Haddad, London, England
Joel Hayward (Yusuf Moustafa Muhammad) (1964-) (currently teaching in the UAE), Lincoln, England

North America

Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi, Houston, USA
Fazlur Rahman (1919-1988), Chicago, USA
Hamid Algar (1940-), Berkeley, USA
Jonathan A.C. Brown (1977-), Washington DC, USA
Mohammed Adam El-Sheikh, Virginia, USA
Ovamir Anjum, Ohio, USA
Khaled Abou El Fadl, California, USA
Mohammed al-Hanooti (1937-), Virginia, USA
Anwar al-Alwaki (1971-2011), New Mexico, USA
Hamza Yusuf (1958-), California, USA
Hassan Hathout (1924–2009)
Mohammad Fadel, Ontario, Canada
Yasir Qadhi, USA
Faraz Rabbani, Ontario, Canada
Warith Deen Mohammed (1933-2008), Illinois, USA
Zaid Shakir (1956-), California, USA
Faisal Kutty
Louay Safi (1955-)
Muqtedar Khan (1966-), Delaware, USA
Muzammil H. Siddiqi (1943-)
Omid Safi, North Carolina, USA
Seyyed Hossein Nasr (1933-)
Amir Hussain Born in Lahore, Pakistan, raised in Toronto, Canada, living in Los Angeles
Ingrid Mattson (1963-), Ontario, Canada
Sherman Jackson, California, USA
Mohammad Hassan Khalil, Michigan, USA
Intisar Rabb
Jamal Badawi, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Bilal Philips, Jamaica & Toronto, Canada
Ahmad Kutty (1946-), Toronto, Canada (originally from Kerala, India)
Wael Hallaq (1955-), New York City, USA (originally from Palestine)
Asifa Quraishi

SOURCE
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2015, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,354 posts, read 24,094,847 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
No one is calling the shots for Islam. We do not recognize any human central leader ....
The key words here is "No one". But hypothetically there is a small group in the Middle East that directs the education of Imams to be more ultra orthodox (similar to ultra orthodox Jews who take what is written to an extreme view). They in turn take what is learned and join other Mosques or other schools. Thus depending on the ability of the Imam and the openness of the followers in each Mosque, we end up with a small subgroup of each (some) who take this extremist view and become radicalized. What they are taught is a twisted version of Islam (examples in other religions are: KKK took a twisted form of Christianity and JDL took a twisted form of Judaism).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2015, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,354 posts, read 24,094,847 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
....
So yes you don't have a formal religious leader, but there are people controlling the strings in the background. And those puppeteers are in Saudi Arabia. Extremists all of them, which is why you have all these problems in your religion all over the world.
The key word is background. It doesn't mean it's Saudi Arabia. It could be simply a single Muslim anywhere in the world who has too money and simply doesn't know what to do with. So he turns the world into one big chessboard. There are multiple groups, not just Islam, who base their frame of thought on a person.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-07-2015, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
The key words here is "No one". But hypothetically there is a small group in the Middle East that directs the education of Imams to be more ultra orthodox (similar to ultra orthodox Jews who take what is written to an extreme view). They in turn take what is learned and join other Mosques or other schools. Thus depending on the ability of the Imam and the openness of the followers in each Mosque, we end up with a small subgroup of each (some) who take this extremist view and become radicalized. What they are taught is a twisted version of Islam (examples in other religions are: KKK took a twisted form of Christianity and JDL took a twisted form of Judaism).
Not really
While it is true that in the Mideast the Imams tend to be Ultra Orthodox and have had at least minimal training in a Madrass that does not hold in most nations.
Many perhaps even most Imams have no formal training. Quite often the oldest person present at prayer time functions as the Imam. Most Mosques outside the Mideast are built by the local community or even just a single person there is nothing stopping a person from building a Mosque and being the Imam for it. that is often done and is how many small Mosques come to be.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top