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Old 02-16-2015, 07:03 PM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 806,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Watched a debate on whether Islam was a religion of peace. I think two of the three participants had some kind of security protection since their views might have been seem as unfavorable to some Muslims.
I'd say that's telling.
Yep. I don't blame people wanting to protest the creep of sharia law in the United States. We have come so far over the past few hundred years as a country, we don't need a bunch of backward people moving here and trying to enforce sharia law in the USA. It's already happened in parts of England. Unbelievable.
If you want to live under sharia law DO NOT MOVE TO THE USA.

What is sharia law:
Islam: Governing Under Sharia - Council on Foreign Relations
SHARIA LAW - Islamic Sharia Law Explained
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:14 PM
 
Location: in the mountains
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
No I was not there.
My purpose in the my staring this thread was to simply illistrate that when Muslims meet for any purpose, they will be met with animosity by the non-Muslim Majority.
We are constantly being told that we do nothing about denouncing terrorism, but when ever we do organize any type of event it will be met by anti-Muslim protestors.
That is simply not true and is a generalization. Non-Muslim Americans are protesting because they do not want Muslim aka Sharia law being implemented in the USA. They are not protesting simply because the Muslims are different from them, as you are insinuating. There are plenty of foreign people in Texas who appreciate living under American laws.

It is the people who are so vested in the Muslim faith that they want to change the law of the United States to fit their backwards religion who are being protested against.

Sorry that it's not PC to bend over backwards and alter our laws just so the die-hard Muslims can continue to live like this is the 4th century, beheading people and chopping off hands, stoning people for adultery, honor killings, etc. If you want to live like that, then don't move to the USA.

It doesn't matter what religion you practice, America is not under any obligation to change our way of life to conform to the backward social practices that are practiced under Sharia law.

honor killings in North America | BLOG

18 Incredible Honor Killings in America Statistics | HRF

https://events.as.ucsb.edu/event/in-...north-america/
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangokiwi View Post
That is simply not true and is a generalization. Non-Muslim Americans are protesting because they do not want Muslim aka Sharia law being implemented in the USA. They are not protesting simply because the Muslims are different from them, as you are insinuating. There are plenty of foreign people in Texas who appreciate living under American laws.

It is the people who are so vested in the Muslim faith that they want to change the law of the United States to fit their backwards religion who are being protested against.

Sorry that it's not PC to bend over backwards and alter our laws just so the die-hard Muslims can continue to live like this is the 4th century, beheading people and chopping off hands, stoning people for adultery, honor killings, etc. If you want to live like that, then don't move to the USA.

It doesn't matter what religion you practice, America is not under any obligation to change our way of life to conform to the backward social practices that are practiced under Sharia law.

honor killings in North America | BLOG

18 Incredible Honor Killings in America Statistics | HRF

https://events.as.ucsb.edu/event/in-...north-america/

I think one of the main problems is people see Iran and Saudi as being represntative of Sharia. Neither are
Saudi is a Monarchy and the laws are the rule of the Kingdom not one of the 4 madhabs of Sharia,
Iran uses jafa'ari which is Shi'ite and used only in Iran.

What most Muslims in the US want is the recognition of Sharia civil laws which are virtually identical with the Judaic laws except contract disputes are settled by an Islamic council instead of a Rabbi.

We are talking about written contracts between adult consenting Muslims, not forcing any one to wear hijabs or chopping off heads.

But it is a rather moot point as 30 states do recognize Sharia Civil law and in the 20 that do not, there is no problem with simply writing the contracts and filing them in the court house like any other contract. the only problem is it does tie up the court system and judges to have to make religious decisions if a party violates the contract. But if those 20 states want to pay the extra court costs and not let it be handled outside the court system so-be-it. .
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Old 02-17-2015, 07:05 PM
 
Location: in the mountains
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I think one of the main problems is people see Iran and Saudi as being represntative of Sharia. Neither are
Saudi is a Monarchy and the laws are the rule of the Kingdom not one of the 4 madhabs of Sharia,
Iran uses jafa'ari which is Shi'ite and used only in Iran.

What most Muslims in the US want is the recognition of Sharia civil laws which are virtually identical with the Judaic laws except contract disputes are settled by an Islamic council instead of a Rabbi.

We are talking about written contracts between adult consenting Muslims, not forcing any one to wear hijabs or chopping off heads.

But it is a rather moot point as 30 states do recognize Sharia Civil law and in the 20 that do not, there is no problem with simply writing the contracts and filing them in the court house like any other contract. the only problem is it does tie up the court system and judges to have to make religious decisions if a party violates the contract. But if those 20 states want to pay the extra court costs and not let it be handled outside the court system so-be-it. .
I'm not sure where you got this information, if you just made it up to suit your needs, or what.

I posted links which describe Sharia law much differently than what you are saying. Anybody can witness the violence primarily against women and children, but also men, that break Sharia law, that is carried out in the majority of middle Eastern countries. There are plenty of beheadings, public stonings, female genital mutilation, child brides being married off to old men, polygamy, slavery, wifebeatings, honor killings, etc. This is in the news weekly and happens in nearly all the Stan countries, North Africa, Saudi, Iraq, Syria... These are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head.

I would like to know why you think the majority of Muslims want a Sharia law that is exactly the same as Judaic law? lol I find this a laughably inaccurate lie. Sharia law and Islam is not based on Judaism. It is based on the teachings of the prophet Mohammad. Muslims are not required by their own religion to honor any other rules or laws that are imposed by kaffirs (non Muslims).

We don't have a Judaic law either in the Untied States. So I'm not sure why you brought that up as some harmless paralell that the Muslims want. United States law is not based on the Bible or the 10 commandments, that is a myth: https://www.au.org/church-state/june...ents-law-profs

US law is based on English common law. The U.S. Legal System - FindLaw

If someone wants to live under a different law, again, I repeat, you need to find somewhere else to live.

The United States is under no obligation to grant religious groups their own special laws and governing bodies within the US. That in itself is the start of an individual nation state. Completely preposterous.


If you're a Muslim who can't live under the United States law of the land, then move yourself to a muslim country.

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
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Old 02-17-2015, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
the only problem is it does tie up the court system and judges to have to make religious decisions if a party violates the contract.
Do you really think the courts in those 20 states will "make religious decisions"?

I think they will make decisions on the terms of the contract. I doubt they would enforce any contract if the terms of that contract violate any of our existing laws.
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Old 02-17-2015, 07:26 PM
 
Location: in the mountains
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Do you really think the courts in those 20 states will "make religious decisions"?

I think they will make decisions on the terms of the contract. I doubt they would enforce any contract if the terms of that contract violate any of our existing laws.
Yes, so if we follow what Woodrow says, ISIS can move to the USA, set up a contract that they would like to murder all the kaffirs, and the courts must honor that contract, because, it's the Islamic State's religious rights that must be honored. Sounds legit!
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Old 02-18-2015, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Mangokiwi, last year we had a discussion about Sharia law and it was very interesting.

If the United States allowed Sharia law
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Old 02-20-2015, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangokiwi View Post
Yes, so if we follow what Woodrow says, ISIS can move to the USA, set up a contract that they would like to murder all the kaffirs, and the courts must honor that contract, because, it's the Islamic State's religious rights that must be honored. Sounds legit!
Every Muslim I know simply want the right for Islamic Civil Laws to be recognized. Not the Criminal laws. I do not know of any one wanting to change the Criminal laws.
Criminal laws are seperate from Criminal law. Civil law does not over ride criminal law. If something is illegal under Criminal law it is still illegal if used in a civil contract.

What most of us seem to be asking is to have the same rights that are afforded to Jews in that in the event of a contract dispute it is to be settled by a Muslim arbitrator and not a state appointed judge. The same as Jews can have contract disputes arbitrated by a Rabbi and not a State appointed Judge.
Such as if I sign a LaRiba (No Interest loan) with an Islamic Banks and I find the bank is adding in interest charges, I want an Islamic Arbitrator to state the contract is null and void and the bank is at fault and not entitled to repayment of the loan.

Or if a Muslim couple sign a Nikkah (Sahriah Marriage contract) and later the groom refuses to pay the Mawr the bride stated in the contract, an Islamic Arbitrator can declare the contract voided as a result of default by the groom.

another issue would be adoptions. Muslims are not to adopt. They are obligated to provide for the care of orphans etc. But they can not take any legal action that would sever family ties with the birth family.

The recognition of Sharia Civil laws, does not call for the addition or new laws or the rewriting of current laws. It is simply allowing civil disputes, between adult consenting Muslims,to be settled by an Islamic board instead of a State appointed Judge.
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Old 02-20-2015, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,112,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Or if a Muslim couple sign a Nikkah (Sahriah Marriage contract) and later the groom refuses to pay the Mawr the bride stated in the contract, an Islamic Arbitrator can declare the contract voided as a result of default by the groom.
What if the husband refuses to accept the decision of the Islamic Arbitrator?

Would the groom have to accept the Islamic Arbitrator just because the groom is Muslim?
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Old 02-20-2015, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,198,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Protesters, upset that a Muslim group was holding a conference at a Texas conference center owned by the local school district, showed up last night waving flags and signs telling attendees, “Go home and take Obama with you.”

The conference, entitled “Stand With the Prophet Against Terror and Hate,” was being being put on as a fundraiser for a Chicago-based Islamic group, Sound Vision, and approximately about 500 attendees were expected, reports NBC-DFW.

Holding signs saying “You are not Americans. Don’t fly our flag,” protesters complained about the Garland Independent School District allowing the group to use the facility.

“We pay our taxes to that school, and I don’t want them here,” one woman, Lavona Martindale said.

Another protester, identified as Greg McKinley, said, “We’re here to stand up for the American way of life from a faction of people who are trying to destroy us.”

McKinley added, “If they want to live their life like the middle east, they can go back to the middle east.”

“I want for people to see that we are kind peaceful people,” explained conference attendee Page Spence. “We're not here to fight, we're not here to argue. We’re just here to show that we’re Americans too.”

SOURCE
Ultimately, this is the sort of thing that will work to Muslim's benefit. Think Martin Luther King Jr and the rest of the civil rights movement. Violently smashing those protesting in favor of sanity made their attackers look stupid and pretty much guaranteed the end of Jim Crowe America.

In this case you have Muslims protesting against terror and hate. It's such a good thing, there is no sane way to protest against such protestors. You're just making yourself look idiotic even trying. Repeat the process enough and it will just hasten American acceptance of Muslims -- excepting the violent idiotic ones. It's important that the rest of America understands that most Muslims are against the insanity we're seeing with groups like Hamas, Hezbollah and ISIS. It's also important to put a mirror up in front of Muslim hating Americans. Showing them just how ridiculous they are will accelerate the end of their stupidity.
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