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Old 02-20-2015, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Do you really think the courts in those 20 states will "make religious decisions"?

I think they will make decisions on the terms of the contract. I doubt they would enforce any contract if the terms of that contract violate any of our existing laws.
A civil court does not over ride criminal law.

I think it is unfair to the court system for the courts to be required to make religious based decisions, which is what is happening in the states that do not recognize Shariah civil law.

In those state we have to file the contract as a simple business contract. Then the Judge has to determine if the contract has been violated and if so what Judgement made and in whose favor. Quite complex for some one with limited knowledge of Islam.

No civil contract can over ride any existing criminal law. that should not even be an issue in civil court decisions.
The biggest problems I see are in regards to Marriage, inheritance, divorce and property owner ship.
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Old 02-20-2015, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,120,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
In those state we have to file the contract as a simple business contract. Then the Judge has to determine if the contract has been violated and if so what Judgement made and in whose favor. Quite complex for some one with limited knowledge of Islam.
Why would a judge need any knowledge of Islam to determine "if the contract has been violated and if so what Judgement made and in whose favor"?

Wouldn't the judge's knowledge of the U.S. or state law be enough for him or her to make a decision?
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Old 02-20-2015, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Why would a judge need any knowledge of Islam to determine "if the contract has been violated and if so what Judgement made and in whose favor"?

Wouldn't the judge's knowledge of the U.S. or state law be enough for him or her to make a decision?
Just thinking of a possible although extreme example. I enter into an agreement with a friend to open a Halal Grocery Store.

We agree the store will only sell Halal food. I agree to pay all the expenses for a year he agrees to fully run the store. After a year we will split the Profits every 3 months for the remainder of our lives. Unless we both mutually agree to sell the store and evenly split what we get
In the event He sells non-Halal products he agrees to repay every cent I put into the store, plus a $10,000 penalty.
I discover he is selling Jello brand gelatin which I believe is not halal, he claims it is halal. I file suit against him. It is now up to the judge to determine if the Jello is halal,
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Old 02-20-2015, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Texas
115 posts, read 173,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Just thinking of a possible although extreme example. I enter into an agreement with a friend to open a Halal Grocery Store.

We agree the store will only sell Halal food. I agree to pay all the expenses for a year he agrees to fully run the store. After a year we will split the Profits every 3 months for the remainder of our lives. Unless we both mutually agree to sell the store and evenly split what we get
In the event He sells non-Halal products he agrees to repay every cent I put into the store, plus a $10,000 penalty.
I discover he is selling Jello brand gelatin which I believe is not halal, he claims it is halal. I file suit against him. It is now up to the judge to determine if the Jello is halal,
It's not the judges job to know stuff like that. That's why they ALWAYS call expert witnesses for that kind of thing.

Gee, Sharia law sounds great! Can non muslims enjoy the benefit of it?

What if your grocery store partner says, "I'm not muslim anymore so I don't want Sharia court"?
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Old 02-20-2015, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,120,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Just thinking of a possible although extreme example. I enter into an agreement with a friend to open a Halal Grocery Store.

We agree the store will only sell Halal food. I agree to pay all the expenses for a year he agrees to fully run the store. After a year we will split the Profits every 3 months for the remainder of our lives. Unless we both mutually agree to sell the store and evenly split what we get
In the event He sells non-Halal products he agrees to repay every cent I put into the store, plus a $10,000 penalty.
I discover he is selling Jello brand gelatin which I believe is not halal, he claims it is halal. I file suit against him. It is now up to the judge to determine if the Jello is halal,
When you suit is heard in court, you and your friend will both get to explain your different Halal beliefs and bring documents or expert witnesses to back up your beliefs. Then the judge will make his unbiased and well-informed decision. That sounds like a good system to me.

If you don't like such a decision being made by a non-Muslim, then you and your friend would certainly have the freedom to agree on a Muslim arbitrator and then choose to follow his decision.

How about the question I asked in Post #29?

Last edited by hiker45; 02-20-2015 at 08:31 PM..
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Old 02-20-2015, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,120,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Registration View Post
What if your grocery store partner says, "I'm not muslim anymore so I don't want Sharia court"?
Yeah, good question.

Or what if the partner says, "Even though I am still Muslim, I will not allow a Sharia court to make a decision that affects me"?
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Old 02-20-2015, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
When you suit is heard in court, you and your friend will both get to explain your different Halal beliefs and bring documents or expert witnesses to back up your beliefs. Then the judge will make his unbiased and well-informed decision. That sounds like a good system to me.

Only if it was clearly stated in the contract that in the event of a dispute both agree to abide by the decision of an Islamic council. Typically each gets to select half of who will sit on the council

How about the question I asked in Post #29?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
What if the husband refuses to accept the decision of the Islamic Arbitrator?

Would the groom have to accept the Islamic Arbitrator just because the groom is Muslim?
Answer to post 29--As long as the state refuses to acknowledge Islamic Civil law nothing can be done.
However, in a state that allows Sharia Civil contracts, one would be able to sue for breach of contract in a State Civil court.

Quote:
Would the groom have to accept the Islamic Arbitrator just because the groom is Muslim?
Only if it was clearly stated in the contract that inthe event of a disput both agree to abide by the decision of an Islamic council. Typically each gets to selct half of who will sit on the council

Quote:
Only if it was clearly stated in the contract that inthe event of a disput both agree to abide by the decision of an Islamic council. Typically each gets to selct half of who will sit on the council
That is not permitted in the 20 states that have outlawed all forms of Sharia law.That is what is being requested to be done, by Muslims asking for recognition of Sharia Civil law.
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Old 02-20-2015, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Registration View Post
It's not the judges job to know stuff like that. That's why they ALWAYS call expert witnesses for that kind of thing.

Gee, Sharia law sounds great! Can non muslims enjoy the benefit of it?

What if your grocery store partner says, "I'm not muslim anymore so I don't want Sharia court"?
\

Sharia Law can not be forced upon non-Muslims. However this is a free country and if non-Muslims want their suit to be Arbitrated by an Islamic Council they should be allowed to do so.

In the case of my Grocery store partner it would depend on how the contract was worded. I would be certain it contained a clause that all disputes would be arbitrated with an Islamic Council. trying to renig on that would be a clar case of "breach of contract"

Many non Muslims are taking advantage of Sharia compliant loans. they like the idea of no interest. when buying a house it gives a tremendous savings and every penny paid in counts as equity.
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Old 02-20-2015, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,120,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
However, in a state that allows Sharia Civil contracts, one would be able to sue for breach of contract in a State Civil court.
If you have a written contract with someone and you think they have violated the terms of the contract, can't you always "sue for breach of contract in a State Civil court"?

Why would it matter if it is a "Sharia civil contract" or not? In every state, as long as the contract is written, you always have the right to sue for a breach of contract.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Texas
115 posts, read 173,438 times
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Under sharia women get half the inheritance of men, their testimony is worth half that of a mans. A man can divorce his wife just by saying 3 times "I divorce you". It is so one sided in favor of men. Women get burned big time.

If you want to have "Sharia Court" and both parties agree I would not really care as long as the judgements were not enforced by the government. You can have your play court as long as the judgements would not be legally binding.

Allah can enforce the judgements for you.

Then what if your not happy with the judgement. Who do you appeal to? Would you have a Sharia Supreme Court?
Nah, it's all too stupid. You can't have both in the same society. It has to be one or the other.
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