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Old 02-07-2015, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePage View Post
And there will be a continuous flow of those non-Muslims so why doesn't the Muslim regime of Saudi Arabia give allow a Church ?
Other thing: You referred to the Vatican as a independent state, which I know for being a Christian for years.
Now you also explained that Mecca did not belong to the Saudi. If so, Mecca would almost be like the Vatican and the surrounding country ( Saudi Arabia ) would be like Italy. But there are mosques in Italy, aren't there ?
You are correct.

I can not speak for Saudi. they are an independent kingdom and operate under the laws of the Monarchy.
Virtually all non-Muslims in Saudi have come for either work in the oil fields or military duty on any of the American military bases

Unless there was an economic need for the al-Saud family to have any non-Muslims in the region, I doubt they will ever build any churches.
Christians are permitted to have prayer services in their apartments, provided they do can not be heard by any Muslim neighbors.

In the Housing compounds maintained by the oil companies and the US military it is much easier as Muslims will not enter either.
Most of the oil company compounds do have areas that are used for religious services.
There are currently 5 US military bases in Saudi. I am quite certain they all have chapels.

The only reason I see any one desiring Churches in Saudi is for proselytizing. It is doubtful there will ever be a sizable non-Muslim population in Saudi.
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Old 02-07-2015, 06:33 PM
 
1,532 posts, read 1,496,627 times
Reputation: 1519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You are correct.

I can not speak for Saudi. they are an independent kingdom and operate under the laws of the Monarchy.
Virtually all non-Muslims in Saudi have come for either work in the oil fields or military duty on any of the American military bases

Unless there was an economic need for the al-Saud family to have any non-Muslims in the region, I doubt they will ever build any churches.
Christians are permitted to have prayer services in their apartments, provided they do can not be heard by any Muslim neighbors.

In the Housing compounds maintained by the oil companies and the US military it is much easier as Muslims will not enter either.
Most of the oil company compounds do have areas that are used for religious services.
There are currently 5 US military bases in Saudi. I am quite certain they all have chapels.

The only reason I see any one desiring Churches in Saudi is for proselytizing. It is doubtful there will ever be a sizable non-Muslim population in Saudi.
I really can't stomach reading what you have written! So your reasons that Non-Muslims should not have a church are the following:

1) Churches are built by al-Saud family and why should they build a church for non-Muslims? (They don't need to as the Catholic church and/or private donors could finance it.)
2) The Non-muslims are only temporary and so why should they have a church? (Why not? There are constant temporary non-Muslims there. Some people live there for over ten years, should they not be able to have mass in a church?)
3) Christians are permitted to have prayer in their apartments provided that they are not heard, so what's the problem? (Hmmm...I used to be a devout Muslim but have renounced it with great joy. Why are you afraid with people hearing other religions? Is it offensive? Or are you afraid that they will leave Islam?
4) The only reason I see anyone desiring churches in Saudi is for proselytizing. (Muslims have no problem trying to proselytize people all around the world.)
 
Old 02-07-2015, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republic of Michigan View Post
I really can't stomach reading what you have written! So your reasons that Non-Muslims should not have a church are the following:

1) Churches are built by al-Saud family and why should they build a church for non-Muslims? (They don't need to as the Catholic church and/or private donors could finance it.)
2) The Non-muslims are only temporary and so why should they have a church? (Why not? There are constant temporary non-Muslims there. Some people live there for over ten years, should they not be able to have mass in a church?)
3) Christians are permitted to have prayer in their apartments provided that they are not heard, so what's the problem? (Hmmm...I used to be a devout Muslim but have renounced it with great joy. Why are you afraid with people hearing other religions? Is it offensive? Or are you afraid that they will leave Islam?
4) The only reason I see anyone desiring churches in Saudi is for proselytizing. (Muslims have no problem trying to proselytize people all around the world.)

Saudi is a Monarchy.
They do not have any legal reason to explain why they do anything.
The KSA is private property owned by the al-Saud family
They do not speak for Islam or any religion
I listed why I believe they will never have any Churches.

Now to address your answers
1, They will not sell the land to anyone. It would be foolish for a Church to invest any money into the construction of a Church on land that will only have a short lease, that may not be renewed

2, How many of those live in any of the cities? Most live in one of the company owned compounds

3. I left Christianity with great joy. I personally have no problem with even the home visiting missionaries that occasionally stop by. I know they will not convince me to leave Islam.

4. I do not proselytize and I feel it should be illegal in all nations. It should be illegal for anyone in any nation to blatantly proselytize publicly. I think proselytizing should be limited to a person not hiding their beliefs but not advertize them, just be available to answer questions if ever asked.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:18 AM
 
1,532 posts, read 1,496,627 times
Reputation: 1519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Saudi is a Monarchy.
They do not have any legal reason to explain why they do anything.
The KSA is private property owned by the al-Saud family
They do not speak for Islam or any religion
I listed why I believe they will never have any Churches.

Now to address your answers
1, They will not sell the land to anyone. It would be foolish for a Church to invest any money into the construction of a Church on land that will only have a short lease, that may not be renewed

2, How many of those live in any of the cities? Most live in one of the company owned compounds

3. I left Christianity with great joy. I personally have no problem with even the home visiting missionaries that occasionally stop by. I know they will not convince me to leave Islam.

4. I do not proselytize and I feel it should be illegal in all nations. It should be illegal for anyone in any nation to blatantly proselytize publicly. I think proselytizing should be limited to a person not hiding their beliefs but not advertize them, just be available to answer questions if ever asked.
1) You are wrong. People can buy land. There should not be any discrimination based on religion based on the purchase of land. I have Saudi friends who converted to Christianity. They actually would like to build a church. In your heart of hatred toward the "Kufar", as a typical Muslim, you think that it is haram to have a church fil najd. Also, suppose your correct that there are short leases and the state owns all the land. Ok? So? The church can decide to make that lease. They can move to a new location and sign a different lease. OR better yet, the State can renew its lease just like it does with all the other Mosques.

2) I don't care if there is only 1 person in any of the cities. What difference does it make? You are just looking for excuses to the prevent the construction of a church or non-muslim place of worship in Saudi Arabia. In your mind, you pound your chest with this fallacy of Islamic Land and Islamic supremacy. How dare there be a non-Islamic place of worship near the Kaaba.....right???? Trust me, I am from Iraq and I know the mentality of people there. The real reason you don't want a church is not because of practicality, but your Koran makes you look at it with offense. Chapter nine, verse 30 of the Koran says, “the Christians call Christ the son of Allah…Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth.” I can write it in Arabic if you like..haha...have you learned it yet to read what Allah said?

3) There is nothing wrong with proselytizing. The problem is forced conversion. What is just as bad is people who have an attitude like you--- which is to give inferior status to Non-Muslims in Muslim majority countries. Muslims have no problem with their script of trying to "revert" Christians to Islam by basically attacking the divinity of Jesus Christ. Instead of proselytizing, what about allowing the publication of books, TV programs, and courses at Universities which examine the Koran and its origins from human instrument. Of course you would outlaw such courses! By the way, as Muslims believe that Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers; please give me a banana and the name of a plastic surgeon!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Old 02-08-2015, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republic of Michigan View Post
1) You are wrong. People can buy land. There should not be any discrimination based on religion based on the purchase of land. I have Saudi friends who converted to Christianity. They actually would like to build a church. In your heart of hatred toward the "Kufar", as a typical Muslim, you think that it is haram to have a church fil najd. Also, suppose your correct that there are short leases and the state owns all the land. Ok? So? The church can decide to make that lease. They can move to a new location and sign a different lease. OR better yet, the State can renew its lease just like it does with all the other Mosques.

2) I don't care if there is only 1 person in any of the cities. What difference does it make? You are just looking for excuses to the prevent the construction of a church or non-muslim place of worship in Saudi Arabia. In your mind, you pound your chest with this fallacy of Islamic Land and Islamic supremacy. How dare there be a non-Islamic place of worship near the Kaaba.....right???? Trust me, I am from Iraq and I know the mentality of people there. The real reason you don't want a church is not because of practicality, but your Koran makes you look at it with offense. Chapter nine, verse 30 of the Koran says, “the Christians call Christ the son of Allah…Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth.” I can write it in Arabic if you like..haha...have you learned it yet to read what Allah said?

3) There is nothing wrong with proselytizing. The problem is forced conversion. What is just as bad is people who have an attitude like you--- which is to give inferior status to Non-Muslims in Muslim majority countries. Muslims have no problem with their script of trying to "revert" Christians to Islam by basically attacking the divinity of Jesus Christ. Instead of proselytizing, what about allowing the publication of books, TV programs, and courses at Universities which examine the Koran and its origins from human instrument. Of course you would outlaw such courses! By the way, as Muslims believe that Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers; please give me a banana and the name of a plastic surgeon!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are assuming I agree with Saudi not allowing churches. You are wrong. I am simply explaining why I think they do not allow Churches. No place did I say I agreed with them or liked what they do. If I like what they do in Saudi I would be living there.

I have no liking for the politics of the Monarchy. But, if I were in Saudi I would abide by the laws of the Nation just as I have always obeyed the laws of any nation I have ever lived in or visited.

Na'am N'kal b'el Arbeea.

I learned Arabic nearly 40 years before I had accepted Islam. When I was a Christian Missionary in North Africa and The Mideast I used to Preach in Arabic.

Because I used to proselytize religion, is probably why I dislike proselytizing so much now.
I have nothing against Christians nor any dislike for them. If I did I would not be living in an area where my wife and myself are the only Muslims in a 100 mile radius.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,365 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869
Quote:
Originally Posted by folkguitarist555 View Post
Troll?? Why is the OP a troll?? His question is rather valid, in my opinion
The original question was not a troll question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePage View Post
Is There any Church in Saudi Arabia?
and it was answered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePage View Post
Would Islam, the religion of tolerance, allow the building of a Christian Church in Mecca? (You bet the Pope wouldn't mind seeing a Mosque next door to the Vatican.)
Just asking!
The wording of the body and by what's underlined made it into a troll question. We all know what was meant when it was typed and this is not the POC forum. Placing a political question in a religious forum does not make it a religious question. Their country, their politics and policies. It's Saudi Arabia, not the US and Italy.
 
Old 02-12-2015, 05:17 PM
 
723 posts, read 652,074 times
Reputation: 392
How fair is this?
Dozens of Christians 'including women and children' are arrested in Saudi Arabia after tip-off to state's Islamist police force | Daily Mail Online
 
Old 02-12-2015, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
I can only give my own opinion. I do not represent Saudi and Saudi does not represent me,
However, Saudi is a sovereign nation and free to make their own laws.

When one is in a foreign nation they agree to abide by the laws of the Nation or keep out.

I do not like the laws of Saudi, but I believe a Nation has a right to establish it's own laws, We also have a right to keep out of countries whose laws we do not like.

Saudi does not represent Islam, it represents the laws of the Monarchy.

Going to Saudi for a job is like going to a factory for a job. Who would work in a factory that is contradictory to their beliefs. Probably someone who wants the high salary. Here in the US there are pig farms. Now if a Muslim chose to work in a pig farm, does it make sense for him to refuse to touch pigs? Would it make sense for a Jew to work at a MacDonalds and refuse to make cheese burgers as a Jew is forbidden to mix dairy and meat products?

It all comes down to if a person can not abide by the laws of a nation, they should not seek work in that nation.

Anyone every stop to wonder with all the unemployed Muslims in the world, why do they seek work in just about every nation except Saudi?

All of those Jobs filled by non-Muslims could be filled by Muslims, but it seems most Muslims refuse to work in Saudi.

If non-Muslims refused to work in Saudi I suspect the laws would change rapidly.
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Old 02-13-2015, 04:04 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,365 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869
How many times do I have to tell you about SA. This article is extremely more about corruption in the Police Dept, then following the religion. If you would have taken the time to read your own link, you would have figured that out by the following quote from your link:
Quote:
This is enforced even though there are over two million Christian foreign workers in that country. Those victimized are typically poor, from Asian and African countries with weak governments.'
SA is not the only country on the planet that has corrupt Police that require pay offs to look the other way. There is no Police force on the planet that has a Police force with someone in the government getting a payoff to look the other way.
 
Old 02-13-2015, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,365 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869
Correction:
There is no Police force on the planet that doesn't have a Police force or/and with someone in the government getting a payoff to look the other way.
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