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Old 03-07-2015, 02:08 AM
 
8,671 posts, read 3,102,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
That is an admission you believe the Hadith is true. That is good to read.

There is no indication Muhammad(saaws) was engaging in any sexual activity. Ever been on a camping trip when 3 or more men share the same tent and sleep side by side on the floor of the tent? Where in that Hadith is there any indication there was any sexual activity?

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 429:

Narrated Malik bin Sasaa:

The Prophet said, "While I was at the House in a state midway between sleep and wakefulness, (an angel recognized me) as the man lying between two men. A golden tray full of wisdom and belief was brought to me and my body was cut open from the throat to the lower part of the abdomen and then my abdomen was washed with Zam-zam water and (my heart was) filled with wisdom and belief. Al-Buraq, a white animal, smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey was brought to me and I set out with Gabriel. When I reached the nearest heaven. Gabriel said to the heaven gate-keeper, 'Open the gate.' The gatekeeper asked, 'Who is it?' He said, 'Gabriel.' The gate-keeper,' Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel said, 'Muhammad.' The gate-keeper said, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel said, 'Yes.' Then it was said, 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!' Then I met Adam and greeted him and he said, 'You are welcomed O son and a Prophet.' Then we ascended to the second heaven. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel said, 'Gabriel.' It was said, 'Who is with you?' He said, 'Muhammad' It was asked, 'Has he been sent for?' He said, 'Yes.' It was said, 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!" Then I met Jesus and Yahya (John) who said, 'You are welcomed, O brother and a Prophet.' Then we ascended to the third heaven. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel said, 'Gabriel.' It was asked, 'Who is with you? Gabriel said, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has he been sent for?' 'Yes,' said Gabriel. 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!' (The Prophet added. There I met Joseph and greeted him, and he replied, 'You are welcomed, O brother and a Prophet!' Then we ascended to the 4th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met Idris and greeted him. He said, 'You are welcomed O brother and Prophet.' Then we ascended to the 5th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in previous heavens. there I met and greeted Aaron who said, 'You are welcomed O brother and a Prophet". Then we ascended to the 6th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met and greeted Moses who said, 'You are welcomed O brother and. a Prophet.' When I proceeded on, he started weeping and on being asked why he was weeping, he said, 'O Lord! Followers of this youth who was sent after me will enter Paradise in greater number than my followers.' Then we ascended to the seventh heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met and greeted Abraham who said, 'You are welcomed o son and a Prophet.' Then I was shown Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur (i.e. Allah's House). I asked Gabriel about it and he said, This is Al Bait-ul-Ma'mur where 70,000 angels perform prayers daily and when they leave they never return to it (but always a fresh batch comes into it daily).' Then I was shown Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (i.e. a tree in the seventh heaven) and I saw its Nabk fruits which resembled the clay jugs of Hajr (i.e. a town in Arabia), and its leaves were like the ears of elephants, and four rivers originated at its root, two of them were apparent and two were hidden. I asked Gabriel about those rivers and he said, 'The two hidden rivers are in Paradise, and the apparent ones are the Nile and the Euphrates.' Then fifty prayers were enjoined on me. I descended till I met Moses who asked me, 'What have you done?' I said, 'Fifty prayers have been enjoined on me.' He said, 'I know the people better than you, because I had the hardest experience to bring Bani Israel to obedience. Your followers cannot put up with such obligation. So, return to your Lord and request Him (to reduce the number of prayers.' I returned and requested Allah (for reduction) and He made it forty. I returned and (met Moses) and had a similar discussion, and then returned again to Allah for reduction and He made it thirty, then twenty, then ten, and then I came to Moses who repeated the same advice. Ultimately Allah reduced it to five. When I came to Moses again, he said, 'What have you done?' I said, 'Allah has made it five only.' He repeated the same advice but I said that I surrendered (to Allah's Final Order)'" Allah's Apostle was addressed by Allah, "I have decreed My Obligation and have reduced the burden on My slaves, and I shall reward a single good deed as if it were ten good deeds."
Another interesting correlation is the parable of the 10 virgins spoke of by Jesus. 5 maintained their lamps with oil and 5 did not.
Sorry to interupt. it is not my intention to hijack this thread.

Last edited by pinacled; 03-07-2015 at 02:09 AM.. Reason: error missing number

 
Old 03-07-2015, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Texas
115 posts, read 172,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
Sorry to interupt. it is not my intention to hijack this thread.
But that's what you're doing.

Diversion is a common tactic for people who can't speak to the topic so it's no surprise.
Text walls to drowned out what you don't like is another common tactic. Typical.
 
Old 03-07-2015, 03:36 AM
 
8,671 posts, read 3,102,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Registration View Post
But that's what you're doing.

Diversion is a common tactic for people who can't speak to the topic so it's no surprise.
Text walls to drowned out what you don't like is another common tactic. Typical.
As could be said with projection. It is a behavior used to divert guilt. So the accusation of the prophet Muhammad being Gay could be accounted to the op.
Without engrossed cultural understanding ones spirit would be lacking connection. So instead of trying to understand words of expression someone might fail to communicate with proper judgement.
As which was explained spiritually for Babel.
Sexuality in a carnal mind is physical understood and always perceived in such a manner that is offensive.
A true intellectual debate to bring about peace and understanding would be goal worth time.
 
Old 03-07-2015, 10:12 AM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 806,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
Woodrow, your patience in addressing these matters is infinite.
You never cease to amaze me how you keep your calm and take it all in your stride.
Respect to you for that.
That's because he sees nothing wrong with a religion that endorses pedophilism and abuse of women. you'd be calm too if you saw nothing wrong with those things.

Or how about female genital mutilation? That's another disgusting practice practiced in Islam, in order to force women to be chaste. It causes so much pain for the woman during the procedure, then everytime she menstruates, and when a man forces her to have sex it's almost unbearable for her. She will also have a much higher risk of dying in childbirth.

“…women have no need for their genitalia…” “…unless you are a whore” | Winds of Jihad

Quote:
This is a pamphlet put out by the supporters of Sharia Law (Islamic Law) in Britain which states that
women have no need for their genitalia unless you are a whore


Women: Do You Have a Clitoris? Well If you live in Britain.. you may not for long. Why? Because Muslim Men do not believe you should have one.


There is a Movement in Britain now by Islamic Muslim Men to force ALL WOMEN in Britain to undergo MANDATORY REMOVAL of the female genitalia. (Clitorechtomy)


footnote: This movement has already begun in the United States, as well.
* This will not ONLY APPLY to muslim women This will apply to ALL WOMEN ! (Ban Islam)



(Bukhari 5891 also Muslim 527)
Abu Hurayrah said: I heard the Prophet say: The fitrah is five things or five things are part of the fitrah circumcision, shaving the pubes, trimming the moustache, cutting the nails and plucking the armpit hairs.


(Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law)

(Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri)


Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the ***** of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (this is called Hufaad)
I will also add there are fatwas on some modern scholars who have responded to the war that has been launched against female circumcision on the grounds that it is harmful to health.


From the above it is clear that the circumcision of girls which is the topic under discussion here is part of the fitrah of Islam, and the way it is to be done is the method that the Messenger of Allah explained. It is not right to abandon his teachings for the view of anyone else, even if that is a doctor, because medicine is knowledge and knowledge is always developing and changing.
 
Old 03-07-2015, 10:16 AM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 806,143 times
Reputation: 2058
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
As could be said with projection. It is a behavior used to divert guilt. So the accusation of the prophet Muhammad being Gay could be accounted to the op.
Without engrossed cultural understanding ones spirit would be lacking connection. So instead of trying to understand words of expression someone might fail to communicate with proper judgement.
As which was explained spiritually for Babel.
Sexuality in a carnal mind is physical understood and always perceived in such a manner that is offensive.
A true intellectual debate to bring about peace and understanding would be goal worth time.
It's not a baseless accusation. There is plenty of evidence to support the hypothesis that Mohammad did engage in homosexual acts with both men and young boys. It's not far off from the ancient Greek practice of "thighing" that older men practiced with boys and young men, and the accompanying adoration and courting that the older men showed to the younger men.

Mohammad was a man of his time, and the evidence that he engaged in homosexual acts was not shocking or scandalous in the century and place he lived in. How it is intererpreted now in the 21st century is what's interesting. Muslim men everywhere strive to live just as Mohammad did, and follow the things he did in his life.
 
Old 03-07-2015, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangokiwi View Post
That's because he sees nothing wrong with a religion that endorses pedophilism and abuse of women. you'd be calm too if you saw nothing wrong with those things.

Or how about female genital mutilation? That's another disgusting practice practiced in Islam, in order to force women to be chaste. It causes so much pain for the woman during the procedure, then everytime she menstruates, and when a man forces her to have sex it's almost unbearable for her. She will also have a much higher risk of dying in childbirth.

“…women have no need for their genitalia…” “…unless you are a whore” | Winds of Jihad
i do not recall ever saying I support or see nothing wrong with pedophilia or the abuse of women nor do I find ahything in the Qur'an, Ahadith, Fiqh-ul-Sunnah or the Hanafi Madhab that does so.
As for Female Circumcision:

Fatwas against FGM



Quote:
FGM is a social custom, not a religious practice. However, in those Muslim countries where it is practice, FGM is often justified by a controversial saying attributed to the Prophet Mohammed that seem to favor sunna circumcision involving minor cutting of the clitoris. The authenticity of these sayings are unconfirmed, and some scholars have refuted them. Even if true, they only permit the practice; they do not mandate it.

FGM has probably been performed for at least 1,400 years (some references estimate 2,000 years), and started during what Muslims call "al-gahiliyyah" (the era of ignorance). The Qu'r'an, Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and Christian Scriptures (New Testament) is silent on the subject. The Sunnah (the words and actions of the Prophet Mohammed) contains a reference to female circumcision.

According to the Muslim Women's League:

"Those who advocate for FGM from an Islamic perspective commonly quote the following hadith to argue that it is required as part of the Sunnah or Tradition of the Prophet:

'Um Atiyyat al-Ansariyyah said: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (pbuh) said to her: Do not cut too severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband'." 1,8

One interpretation of this passage is that the woman was going to proceed with the circumcision anyway; Muhammad suggested that she remove a smaller amount of her genitalia than she had perhaps intended to.

This passage is regarded by many Muslims as having little credibility or authenticity. The Muslim Women's League comments: "According to Sayyid Sabiq, renowned scholar and author of Fiqh-us-Sunnah, all hadiths concerning female circumcision are non-authentic." 1 An extensive analysis of classical Muslim authors is available online. 2

Many Muslims see passages in the Qur'an which, by implication, oppose FGM. they reason:
bullet God apparently created the clitoris for the sole purpose of generating pleasure. It has no other purpose. There is no instruction in the Qur'an or in the writings of the Prophet Mohammed which require that the clitoris be surgically modified. Thus God must approve of its presence. And so, it should not be removed or reduced in size or function.

The Qur'an promotes the concept of a husband and wife giving each other pleasure during sexual intercourse. For example:
bullet "It is lawful for you to go in unto your wives during the night preceding the (day's) fast: they are as a garment for you and you are as a garment for them." (2:187)

...and He has put love and mercy between you." (30:21)

Mutilated genitalia reduce or eliminate a woman's pleasure during the act.

The Qur'an (An-Nisa': 119) states that Satan will try to trick humans into body modification: "And I will surely lead them astray, and arouse desires in them, and command them and they will cut the cattle's ears, and I will surely command them and they will change Allah's creation." This might be interpreted as forbidding FGM as well as tattoos, piercing and any other modification that alters the design of the human body as Allah created it.

2006 international conference:

TARGET, a German human rights group, sponsored a conference on FGM in Cairo, Egypt. Muslim scholars from many nations attended. At the conclusion of the conference on 2006-NOV-24, their final statement declared FGM to be contrary to Islam, an attack on women, and a practice that should be criminalized:

"The conference appeals to all Muslims to stop practicing this habit, according to Islam's teachings which prohibit inflicting harm on any human being. ... The conference reminds all teaching and media institutions of their role to explain to the people the harmful effects of this habit in order to eliminate it. ... The conference calls on judicial institutions to issue laws that prohibit and criminalize this habit ... which appeared in several societies and was adopted by some Muslims although it is not sanctioned by the Qur'an or the Sunna."

According to The Age online news source:

"Egypt's two top Islamic clerics, Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, the Grand Sheik of Al-Azhar, the foremost theological institute in the Sunni Muslim world, and Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, attended the conference, which drew scholars from as far afield as Russia. Tantawi's and Gomaa's edicts are considered binding.
FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION FEMALE (CIRCUMCISION) IN AFRICA, MIDDLE EAST AND FAR EAST
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:04 PM
 
8,671 posts, read 3,102,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangokiwi View Post
It's not a baseless accusation. There is plenty of evidence to support the hypothesis that Mohammad did engage in homosexual acts with both men and young boys. It's not far off from the ancient Greek practice of "thighing" that older men practiced with boys and young men, and the accompanying adoration and courting that the older men showed to the younger men.

Mohammad was a man of his time, and the evidence that he engaged in homosexual acts was not shocking or scandalous in the century and place he lived in. How it is intererpreted now in the 21st century is what's interesting. Muslim men everywhere strive to live just as Mohammad did, and follow the things he did in his life.
That it is thought?
Connecting Mohammad to Greek and Eastern sexual practices. If the case were true it could implement an even larger connection and scandal. Political ties and even a military strategy. I'll have to do a little digging.
Piqued...
 
Old 03-08-2015, 11:06 AM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 806,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
That it is thought?
Connecting Mohammad to Greek and Eastern sexual practices. If the case were true it could implement an even larger connection and scandal. Political ties and even a military strategy. I'll have to do a little digging.
Piqued...
I am not knowledgeable about what actual connections he had with the Greeks or Eastern (probably Hindu) sex practices. I am just pointing out that in the ancient world, there were some unusual sex practices between men and children, as well as young boys. I believe that the Greeks practiced this well before Mohammad's time, however, and I can't speak much for the time period of Tantra, only I believe Tantra is far older than the other two cultures.
 
Old 03-09-2015, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Texas
115 posts, read 172,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
This seems to be an issue unique to Afghanistan.
it has been scientifically proven that the percentage of homosexuals in any society is proportional to the extent of gender segregation in that society.

This is what causes some men, in societies where gender segregation is prevalent, to copulate with adolescent boys, due to their resemblance to women...

...if Saudi rulers dont do something quickly to address the problem, 100% of the male population will be homosexuals.

Homosexuality in Iraq and Saudi Arabia
 
Old 03-09-2015, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Registration View Post
it has been scientifically proven that the percentage of homosexuals in any society is proportional to the extent of gender segregation in that society.

This is what causes some men, in societies where gender segregation is prevalent, to copulate with adolescent boys, due to their resemblance to women...

...if Saudi rulers dont do something quickly to address the problem, 100% of the male population will be homosexuals.

Homosexuality in Iraq and Saudi Arabia
for a change I agree with you, especially in regards to Saudi.
The Salafi/wahabbi literal interpretation of Islam is a source of the high homosexuality rate in Saudi.

I dislike using Shi'ite sources for Sunni history but this one does give a reasonably good insight of how most Muslims view Wahabbi'ism

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=11318

Wahabbi was considered a heresy when it was first presented it was the reason the al-Saud family was exiled from Hejaz and Najd

Quote:
(1400s) Saud Dynasty was founded near Riyadh
(1742 - 1765) Muhammad bin Saud Al Saud, a member of the House of Saud, allied with Wahhabists and expanded the family's domain
(1780) Al-Ajyad Castle was built in Mecca to protect the city and shrines from invaders
(1801) Saudi Arabs led Sunni raids into Iraq, killed about 5,000
(1804) Wahhabis captured Medina
(1806) Saudi Arabs led more Sunni raids into Iraq, killed another 5,000
(1813) Wahhabis were driven out of Mecca
Saudi Arabia time line chronological timetable of events - Worldatlas.com

BBC News - Saudi Arabia profile - Timeline.

A timeline of Wahabbi'ism and the "House of Saud"

A Chronology - The House Of Saud | House Of Saud | FRONTLINE | PBS
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