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Old 02-24-2015, 09:18 AM
 
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Saudi Arabia court gives death penalty to man who renounced his Muslim faith - Telegraph

So, if you renounce the religion of peace, you end up in pieces. Great religion,...not.
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:04 AM
 
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For those seeking help renouncing Islam:

Former Muslims United | Fatwa on Apostasy

http://www.facebook.com/groups/122954901147377/

http://www.facebook.com/groups/9830653770/


(similar resources for other religions )
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
Saudi Arabia court gives death penalty to man who renounced his Muslim faith - Telegraph

So, if you renounce the religion of peace, you end up in pieces. Great religion,...not.

From the link

Quote:
The man, in his 20s, posted an online video ripping up a copy of Islam's holy book, the Koran, and hitting it with a shoe, the newspaper reported.

Saudi Arabia, the United States' top Arab ally and birthplace of Islam, follows the strict Wahhabi Sunni Muslim school and gives the clergy control over its justice system.

Under the Wahhabi interpretation of Sharia Islamic law, apostasy demands the death penalty, as do some other religious offences like sorcery, while blasphemy and criticism of senior Muslim clerics have incurred jail terms and corporal punishment.
Read the history of Wahhabi'ism and why the al-Saud family was exiled from the nations of Hijaz and Najd in the 1800s.

When the al-Saud Family conquered Hijaz and Najd in 1929 they formed the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and replaced Islam with Wahhabi'sm
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Texas
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They didn't replace Islam, they purified it.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:22 AM
 
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I am almost absolutely clueless about Islam.

I wonder: Do Muslims who do not live in Saudi-Arabia or any other country where this is practiced agree with people being killed because they renounce their faith? I would imagine that they do not. Am I wrong?

Thanks!
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Texas
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If they follow the Quran they do.

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

Some so called 'moderate muslims' who try to portray Islam as peaceful would say they don't but that's not the teaching of the Islamic text. Each muslim has his own way of spinning it.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Texas
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The reason why executing apostates has always been well-ensconced in Islamic law is that there is an indisputable record of Muhammad and his companions doing exactly that according to the reliable Hadith.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"

Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'"

Abu Dawud (4346) - "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?" Muhammad is chastising his companions for allowing an apostate to "repent" under duress. (The person in question was Muhammad's former scribe who left him after doubting the authenticity of divine "revelations" upon finding out that he could suggest grammatical changes. He was brought back to Muhammad after having been captured in Medina).

al-Muwatta of Imam Malik (36.18.15) - "The Messenger of Allah said, "If someone changes his religion - then strike off his head."

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:52 AM
 
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Thanks!

I hope that Woodrow can give his opinion as well; I understand he is Muslim himself, and I'd be very interested in his opinion.
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Old 02-24-2015, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Me too. I have learned alot from Woodrow.
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Registration View Post
If they follow the Quran they do.

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Part of the cause of confusion is because there are 2 Arabic words that translate into the English word friend.
Saddiq- which is virtually identical with the English concept of friend

Wali- which is much deeper while a wali is a saddiq a saddiq is not necessarily a wali. Wali carries all the meanings of saddiq but goes deeper to include protector and leader, mentor of your feligion, an example to follow in terms of faith, and much more.

We are not to take a non-Muslim as a Wali, which makes sense, would you choose a person not of your faith to be the teacher, protector and companion of your faith?
There is no prohibition about having a non-Muslim as a saddiq.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Registration View Post
If they follow the Quran they do.
Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."
One needs to take at least ayyats 1-15 together to understand this. It is part of a warning to the Mushriks of Mecca if they did not either straighten up their act or get out of Mecca within a year. It is not a commandment to us. It is the explanation of an event that occured.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Registration View Post
If they follow the Quran they do.
Some so called 'moderate muslims' who try to portray Islam as peaceful would say they don't but that's not the teaching of the Islamic text. Each muslim has his own way of spinning it.
There are no "Official Interpretations" of the Que'an. Islamic schools are to teach only the exact Arabic words as written in the Qur'an with no commentary or interpretation.
There are numerous commentarie available some classicl such as Kathir some contemporary such as Ysus Ali and some modern such as Maududi.
We should read each as an opinion and not accept any as being an official interpretation. They are opinions and like all opinions we our self need to evaluate them.

The same as fatwas which are scholastic rulings on an Islamic conclusion.
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