U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-10-2015, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Texas
115 posts, read 172,892 times
Reputation: 66

Advertisements

Just because you practice Islam and you treat women fairly doesn't mean that Islam treats women fairly. They get half the inheritance of their brothers. Their testimony in court is worth half that of a man. That doesn't sound fair to me. I doubt if most woman would think that's fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
A nation has the right to live by it's established rules and standards. If one can not live by them or tolerate them they should leave that nation.
Do you mean the citizens of a nation have the right to live as they please or the government of a nation has the right to continue to abuse the people just because that's what it's always done?

And the citizens should leave rather than try to change their government or their laws?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-10-2015, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Registration View Post
Just because you practice Islam and you treat women fairly doesn't mean that Islam treats women fairly. They get half the inheritance of their brothers. Their testimony in court is worth half that of a man. That doesn't sound fair to me. I doubt if most woman would think that's fair.
Sharia should all or none and in accordance with one and only one madhab.. Partial Sharia could easily be unfair. Especially in the case of inheritance. But if actual sharia in full accordance with any of the 4 madhabs. The Partial inheritance is not only fair it is only choice that would be fair.

In accordance with the madhabs a female is to have all of her living expenses paid by the Male members of her family. If there are none it falls upon the male members of the community.
Also as to what constitutes inheritance. There are a number of things that are not considered part of inheritence. Some examples the homes of a wife (or wives), any unpaid dower to the wife or wives, any annual cash allowance that has been stipulated in the Nikkah.
Now the question is what is considered inheritable?
Any cash savings minus outstanding debts such as dower, allowance to wives, etc
Income producing live stock
trade goods shop items for sale
While the bulk of the income producing goods will go to the male heirs they are to use it to pay the living expenses of the female heirs., no matter how large of personal income they might have.
The partial inheritance for woman would not be fair in a non-Islamic nation and the male heirs are not going to comply with sharia regarding paying all living expenses for the female heirs




Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Registration View Post
Do you mean the citizens of a nation have the right to live as they please or the government of a nation has the right to continue to abuse the people just because that's what it's always done?

And the citizens should leave rather than try to change their government or their laws?
I am speaking only in regards to Muslims and Islam. If a Muslim is living in a non-Islamic Nation and the laws of that nation prevent him from following the 5 Pillars of Islam or if he/she feels unable to abide by the laws of the nation he/she is obligated to leave that nation

If he/she is living in an Islamic Nation and the vast majority are Muslim and a Ruler gains control that prevents them from practicing Islam, they do have an obligation to overthrow that ruler. In the most peaceful manner possible.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2015, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,454 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The partial inheritance for woman would not be fair in a non-Islamic nation and the male heirs are not going to comply with sharia regarding paying all living expenses for the female heirs
Isn't every nation in the world non-Islamic?

Has there ever been a true Islamic nation?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2015, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Isn't every nation in the world non-Islamic?

Has there ever been a true Islamic nation?
The first 4 caliphate are considered to have been the only truly Islamic nations.

true or rather no nation is fully sharia, and none follow the sahria criminal laws

Most Islamic Nations abide by sharia except for the criminal laws.

The non-criminal laws of Sharia are usually followed in all Islamic nations, but do differ in accordance with the Madhab followed.

Violation of them carry no punishment however fines or penalties may be imposed if that is part of the contracts.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2015, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,862 posts, read 3,787,690 times
Reputation: 4594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The question of Gender Equality is not unique to Islam. It does not exist in any nation. As to if any nation ever acheives it is questionable



Number of Countries With Gender Equality: 0

I am not certain if equality is what the world should be seeking. In my opinion I think the goal should be fair treatment, not equal treatment. Equal treatment is not always fair.

My personal belief is that when followed in accordance with the Qur'an, Sunna and one of the 4 Madhabs, Islam does acheive fairness for all people.

There are areas in which equality is fair, such as if a person is an employee it should be equal pay for equal work.
I grew up in an era when peice work was still widely pracitced in the US. I worked in the tobacco fields, 1954-1956 and every person got paid 7 cents for each bent of tobacco picked. Some people could pick 200 bents, or more, a day others only 35. At the end of the day theterewas a big disparity some made as little as $2.45 and others made $15 or more. But it was truly equal pay for equal work.

I find this is what Islam achieves, equal rewards for equal efforts.

I find Islam to be the only system that treats all people fairly. Which I think is more important than equally.

It took me a while to work out what you meant by this statement:

"I am not certain if equality is what the world should be seeking. In my opinion I think the goal should be fair treatment, not equal treatment. Equal treatment is not always fair."

Surely what we should all be seeking is fair treatment AND equal treatment. They are not mutually exclusive concepts.


Speaking as a female here I'll just add my two cents about equality. The west, I agree is a long way off being in any way an equal society. In many ways women are worse off than we were in the 1950's.
Yes, great, women now have many more options open to them and can work in practically any field and can be educated to any level. Now women can go out to work, do a 40 hours week AND STILL come home and STILL have to be responsible for the kids and do all the laundry and do the shopping and cook the dinner. So now women are doing double the work.
Haven't we done well?

I may be unusual in having a fairly old fashioned view that I think mothers (sweeping general statement here) are in general the best people to look after their kids. Unfortunately in the west this brings many compromises and often hardships that women have to put up with.

Western society has nothing to write home about when it comes to equality, however the important distinction between the west and many middle eastern societies is that of 'choice'. I'd still hands down 100% rather work twice as hard by choice than live in a society where all my choices were made for me.

That's just my humble opinion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2015, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,541 times
Reputation: 152
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cruithne again
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2015, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,454 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The partial inheritance for woman would not be fair in a non-Islamic nation and the male heirs are not going to comply with sharia regarding paying all living expenses for the female heirs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The first 4 caliphate are considered to have been the only truly Islamic nations.
Since you say that "partial inheritance for woman would not be fair in a non-Islamic nation" and you also say there are no true Islamic nations in the world today, then it implies the Islamic "partial inheritance for woman" is not a fair law anywhere in the world.

So why even mention such a silly law?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top