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Old 03-07-2015, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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The question of Gender Equality is not unique to Islam. It does not exist in any nation. As to if any nation ever acheives it is questionable

Quote:
Number of Countries With Gender Equality: 0
UN women's agency head slams lack of progress since 1995 commission
By Newser Editors and Wire Services

Posted Mar 6, 2015 8:31 AM CST


(Newser) – The head of the UN agency promoting equality for women is lamenting that a girl born today will be an 81-year-old grandmother before she has the same chance as a man to be CEO of a company—and she will have to wait until she's 50 years old to have an equal chance to lead a country. Twenty years after 189 countries adopted a blueprint to achieve equality for women, Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka says that not a single country has reached gender parity and equality. The executive director of UN Women spoke ahead of International Women's Day and next week's meeting of the Commission on the Status of Women, where the commission will review the 150-page platform for action to achieve equality that was adopted at the groundbreaking UN women's conference in Beijing in 1995.
Number of Countries With Gender Equality: 0

I am not certain if equality is what the world should be seeking. In my opinion I think the goal should be fair treatment, not equal treatment. Equal treatment is not always fair.

My personal belief is that when followed in accordance with the Qur'an, Sunna and one of the 4 Madhabs, Islam does acheive fairness for all people.

There are areas in which equality is fair, such as if a person is an employee it should be equal pay for equal work.
I grew up in an era when peice work was still widely pracitced in the US. I worked in the tobacco fields, 1954-1956 and every person got paid 7 cents for each bent of tobacco picked. Some people could pick 200 bents, or more, a day others only 35. At the end of the day theterewas a big disparity some made as little as $2.45 and others made $15 or more. But it was truly equal pay for equal work.

I find this is what Islam achieves, equal rewards for equal efforts.

I find Islam to be the only system that treats all people fairly. Which I think is more important than equally.
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 352,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I am not certain if equality is what the world should be seeking. In my opinion I think the goal should be fair treatment, not equal treatment. Equal treatment is not always fair.
"fair treatment" is extremely subjective. like one could say child marriage is fair, because if its good for some so called prophet then its good for everyone else.

Equal treatment may not be 100% perfect, but its the best measure for what is fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I find Islam to be the only system that treats all people fairly. Which I think is more important than equally.
in reality however muslim countries are the worst abusers of women.
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Old 03-07-2015, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Texas
115 posts, read 173,357 times
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A joke thread. I got one. How many Muslims does it take to change a light bulb? 1 to change it and 250 million to protest it.
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Old 03-07-2015, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,308,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
"fair treatment" is extremely subjective. like one could say child marriage is fair, because if its good for some so called prophet then its good for everyone else.

Equal treatment may not be 100% perfect, but its the best measure for what is fair.


in reality however muslim countries are the worst abusers of women.

It all depends upon how one defines abuse.

I find western women to be the most abused. In the western world a woman's success is going to be pretty much determined by what the media deems to be sexually attractive.
Women are dieing, just to try to achieve a look they believe will be attractive to men.

Quote:
Media, Perception, Dieting:

• 95% of all dieters will regain their lost weight within 5 years.3
• 35% of “normal dieters” progress to pathological dieting. Of those, 20-25% progress to partial or full-syndrome eating disorders.5
• The body type portrayed in advertising as the ideal is possessed naturally by only 5% of American females.3
• 47% of girls in 5th-12th grade reported wanting to lose weight because of magazine pictures.12
• 69% of girls in 5th-12th grade reported that magazine pictures influenced their idea of a perfect body shape.13
• 42% of 1st-3rd grade girls want to be thinner (Collins, 1991).
81% of 10 year olds are afraid of being fat (Mellin et al., 1991)
Eating Disorders Statistics - National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders

While the Western world is quick and rightly so is quick to condemn some Islamic countries that force a dress code upon women. they do not see that social pressure is just as much of an abuse and it is having serious consequences as young women are literally killing them self to reach the ideal figure.
Depression has reached epidemic proportions in the USA 1 out of 4 American women are currently being treated for depression.

Feminism Is Causing The Depression Epidemic - Thumotic

Among young Mothers in America 60% are unmarried. This is one of the worse forms of abuse a young woman can be faced with, in my opinion.

Single motherhood in U.S. increases sharply - The Washington Post
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Old 03-07-2015, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 352,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It all depends upon how one defines abuse.

I find western women to be the most abused. In the western world a woman's success is going to be pretty much determined by what the media deems to be sexually attractive.
well you certainly have a funny way of defining abuse LOL!



one of the most successful women on earth. is that attractive for you?

what about this:



and of course good looks give someone an edge. same as a good brain. a good personality. a good health.
regardless of gender.
so whats wrong with using your gifts to get ahead in life?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Women are dieing, just to try to achieve a look they believe will be attractive to men.



nice eyes huh? especially with all that makeup. so what were you saying again? trying to look attractive to men is bad thing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

Eating Disorders Statistics - National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders

While the Western world is quick and rightly so is quick to condemn some Islamic countries that force a dress code upon women. they do not see that social pressure is just as much of an abuse and it is having serious consequences as young women are literally killing them self to reach the ideal figure.
Depression has reached epidemic proportions in the USA 1 out of 4 American women are currently being treated for depression.

Feminism Is Causing The Depression Epidemic - Thumotic
from your source:

• An estimated 0.5 to 3.7 percent of women suffer from anorexia nervosa in their lifetime.14 Research suggests that about 1 percent of female adolescents have anorexia.15

• 20% of people suffering from anorexia will prematurely die from complications related to their eating disorder, including suicide and heart problems.18


so technically only 0.1 to 0.74 of women die from a bad choice called "extreme dieting".

its called "self-abuse", buddy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Among young Mothers in America 60% are unmarried. This is one of the worse forms of abuse a young woman can be faced with, in my opinion.

Single motherhood in U.S. increases sharply - The Washington Post
yeah you better keep that opinion to yourself because its absolutely ridiculous.
is this what you use to justify child marriage in muslim countries? or of confining females at home without a male guardian?
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Old 03-07-2015, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,119,144 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I find Islam to be the only system that treats all people fairly. Which I think is more important than equally.
So you are starting one of these "Islam is wonderful" threads again. Yawn.

I guess I might as well ask you the same question as I did the last time:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Why does it matter what Islam says about women's rights?

People do not use religious teachings to determine their behavior. They behave the way they want to, and then use religion to justify that behavior.

We all live a societies that have customs and rules that determine how people are treated. It seems to me that societies with a lot of Muslims often treat women in ways we think are bad.

To be specific, do you know of a majority Muslim society that treats women in a way that you approve?
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Old 03-08-2015, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,308,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
So you are starting one of these "Islam is wonderful" threads again. Yawn.
I would not be Muslim if I did not believe Islam is wonderful. As this is the Islamic forum, it is the appropriate place to post what I believe about Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I guess I might as well ask you the same question as I did the last time:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Why does it matter what Islam says about women's rights?

People do not use religious teachings to determine their behavior. They behave the way they want to, and then use religion to justify that behavior.

We all live a societies that have customs and rules that determine how people are treated. It seems to me that societies with a lot of Muslims often treat women in ways we think are bad.

To be specific, do you know of a majority Muslim society that treats women in a way that you approve?
To a non-Muslim the only reason it should matter "what Islam says about women's rights?" would be if they have a reason to lean what they can about Islam. For most non-Muslims it should be of no concern.


I agree fully with this: "People do not use religious teachings to determine their behavior. They behave the way they want to, and then use religion to justify that behavior."
But I do not believe that is the way it should be. I believe those of us who claim to follow a religious way of life, should abide by it fully or stop claming they follow it.

I agree many Non-Muslims do believe Muslim men treat women bad. I can only speak for myself--I have been married 3 times my first 2 wives passed away. While I was married (25 years) to my first wife I was Christian. While I was married (17 years) to my second wife I was Atheist currently I am Muslim.
I can not think of any way I treated any of my wives differently. I treated each with the most kindness I am capable of. I valued each wife highly and did the best I could, with what I had.

The last question--I do not think the treating of women reflects the fabric of any society. It all comes down to the individual. I know Saudi men that are extremely kind and thoughtful of all women. I also know Saudi Men that treat all women like domestic cattle. I have found that to be true in every nation I have lived in, including the US.

While the US has excellent laws for fair treatment of women, the worse cases of abuse, that I have personally witnessed have been here in the US.

Here in the US having been raised without a father and my Mother being our sole support, until I was old enough to get a job, I have many bad memories of my mother having been abused and cheated. Often much worse than things I have witnessed in third world nations.

Just going by people I have personally known I have known Muslim woman treated in the way I approve in every Muslim Nation I have lived in or visited. I also saw women treated in ways I disapprove of in those very same nations. But I can say the same about every nation I have ever been in.

The Nations I have found the best treated women (My Opinion) where Greenland, Sweden, Indonesia, Australia. The Nations I have seen the Most abused women (My Opinion) where USA, UK, Saudi, Mexico.
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Old 03-08-2015, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,119,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I find Islam to be the only system that treats all people fairly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I would not be Muslim if I did not believe Islam is wonderful. As this is the Islamic forum, it is the appropriate place to post what I believe about Islam
I don't think any forum is an "appropriate place to post" that your religion is "the only system that treats all people fairly". That is a very narrow-minded point of view. I have never seen Jews or Christians post that their religion is better than the others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Nations I have found the best treated women (My Opinion) where Greenland, Sweden, Indonesia, Australia.
I wish we had a citizen of Greenland, Sweden, or Australia here to tell us how they feel about their country being lumped together with a majority Muslim country like Indonesia where female genital mutilation is common and women have to undergo "virginity tests" before joining the police force. I can't imagine what standards you used to group these countries together, but I am very glad you left the United States out.
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Old 03-08-2015, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,308,309 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I don't think any forum is an "appropriate place to post" that your religion is "the only system that treats all people fairly". That is a very narrow-minded point of view. I have never seen Jews or Christians post that their religion is better than the others.




I wish we had a citizen of Greenland, Sweden, or Australia here to tell us how they feel about their country being lumped together with a majority Muslim country like Indonesia where female genital mutilation is common and women have to undergo "virginity tests" before joining the police force. I can't imagine what standards you used to group these countries together, but I am very glad you left the United States out.
I wrote of what I have personally seen not of what I heard or read about
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Old 03-09-2015, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 352,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Nations I have seen the Most abused women (My Opinion) where USA, UK, Saudi, Mexico.
one thing is for sure, if its so bad for women there then people wont be migrating and staying there in america. and there would be mass migrations north to canada.

speaking of canada, it has identical treatment of women and yet its one of the happiest nations on earth.
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