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Old 03-18-2015, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,320,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
^ no no no you totally missed the point. the message was to offer kindness to those that you would rather hate. where is that in any of the quotes you mentioned? if that message is in the quran you wouldnt have islamic inspired genocide of shias & yazidis. you wouldnt have church bombings every 6 months. the palestinian conflict would have ended decades ago!

some of the most important messages of jesus are missing in your 'holy' book.

It is true if you are looking for a verse that commands us to turn our cheek, you will not find it. As beautiful as that is, it is not likely to be followed and is not enforceable.
If Christians actually followed that-

could the Inquisition have taken place

Would the Jewish Holocaust have been able to be carried out?

Would the Genocide of entire Native American Nations have taken place?

Would the A bomb have been used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

etc

While it is a wonderful and idealistic thought, it is not doable.

What can be done is the establishment of limitations.
Muslims are forbidden to be aggressors, no matter how much we hate an enemy.
Muslims are forbidden to fight except in self defense and then only to the degree needed to stop the aggression.
Muslims must not continue fighting if the enemy stops.
In addition we have very specific rules of combat if we are attacked and there is a war,

Before engaging in battle, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) instructed his soldiers:

1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)

2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)

3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)

4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.” (Al-Muwatta)

5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)

6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan Abu Dawud)

8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)

9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan Abu Dawud).

10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)


If you look and think about number 10 that is a more attainable way of achieving "Love your Enemy" it is realistic and attainable.
Historically the command of "Love your Enemy" has a very poor track record of attainment. It is a great ideal and worth striving for, but it is not usually attainable.
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 352,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It is true if you are looking for a verse that commands us to turn our cheek, you will not find it. As beautiful as that is, it is not likely to be followed and is not enforceable.
If Christians actually followed that-

could the Inquisition have taken place

Would the Jewish Holocaust have been able to be carried out?

Would the Genocide of entire Native American Nations have taken place?

Would the A bomb have been used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

etc

While it is a wonderful and idealistic thought, it is not doable.
if it wasnt they would have invaded the middle east by now.

gandhi wasnt christian but the idea worked for his cause.

turning the other cheek isnt always applicable, but when you know when to use it it works wonders. like wasnt there a story about mohammad himself being oppressed but instead he showed kindness and eventually he won over his oppressor? too bad he forgot to add that to the koran.

and as for history, christian culture was sure was depressing 1000 years ago but it did get better and better through the ages did it not? and the muslims? its just downhill from bad to worst.
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 352,538 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It is true if you are looking for a verse that commands us to turn our cheek, you will not find it. As beautiful as that is, it is not likely to be followed and is not enforceable.
If Christians actually followed that-

could the Inquisition have taken place

Would the Jewish Holocaust have been able to be carried out?

Would the Genocide of entire Native American Nations have taken place?

Would the A bomb have been used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

etc

While it is a wonderful and idealistic thought, it is not doable.
if it wasnt there would have been plenty of reprisals for all those church bombings and massacres. it would be WWIII by now.

gandhi wasnt christian but the idea worked for his cause.

turning the other cheek isnt always applicable, but when you know when to use it it works wonders. like wasnt there a story about mohammad himself being oppressed but instead he showed kindness and eventually he won over his oppressor? too bad he forgot to add that to the koran. anyone can kill an enemy, but real victory is when you win him over. according to jesus thats what is worth being rewarded for.

and as for history, christian culture sure was depressing 1000 years ago but it did get better and better through the ages did it not? and the muslims? its just downhill from bad to worst.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,320,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
if it wasnt they would have invaded the middle east by now.

gandhi wasnt christian but the idea worked for his cause.

turning the other cheek isnt always applicable, but when you know when to use it it works wonders. like wasnt there a story about mohammad himself being oppressed but instead he showed kindness and eventually he won over his oppressor? too bad he forgot to add that to the koran.

and as for history, christian culture was sure was depressing 1000 years ago but it did get better and better through the ages did it not? and the muslims? its just downhill from bad to worst.

Ever hear of


Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan: The Muslim Gandhi

Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan: The Muslim Gandhi | Asia | DW.DE | 06.10.2011

The Genocide of Native Americans began about 500 years ago with the worse massacres occurring in the 1800s and continuing even in today's world.

The Same happened with the Aborigines in Australia and the Maoris in New Zeeland within the last 300 years. `
The worse atrocities committed by people calling them self Christian occurred within the past 300 years, not 1000 years ago,

A very profound Quote from Ghandi

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

― Mahatma Gandhi

Today there are Muslims that seem to have more Christlike behavior than many Christians.
Besides Khan who died in 1988 there are Muslims like:

Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri
BBC News - Islamic scholar Tahir ul-Qadri issues terrorism fatwa
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Old 03-19-2015, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 352,538 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Ever hear of


Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan: The Muslim Gandhi

Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan: The Muslim Gandhi | Asia | DW.DE | 06.10.2011
"In time Khan convinced them of the need to follow Mahatma Gandhi's philosophy"

so a muslim became a gandhi for folllowing mahatma gandhi's philosophy. thank god for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Genocide of Native Americans began about 500 years ago with the worse massacres occurring in the 1800s and continuing even in today's world.

The Same happened with the Aborigines in Australia and the Maoris in New Zeeland within the last 300 years. `
The worse atrocities committed by people calling them self Christian occurred within the past 300 years, not 1000 years ago,

A very profound Quote from Ghandi

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

― Mahatma Gandhi
the worst atrocities by christians IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY occurred 1000 years ago.

the worst atrocities by muslims IN THE NAME OF ISLAM is happening now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Today there are Muslims that seem to have more Christlike behavior than many Christians.
muslim countries are the worst abusers of human rights. islamist terrorism is everywhere. honor killings go as far muslims in the west. the palestinian conflict never ends because of the hatred muslims feed themselves against the jews.

so what the hell are you talking about?
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,320,105 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
"In time Khan convinced them of the need to follow Mahatma Gandhi's philosophy"

so a muslim became a gandhi for folllowing mahatma gandhi's philosophy. thank god for that.



the worst atrocities by christians IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY occurred 1000 years ago.

the worst atrocities by muslims IN THE NAME OF ISLAM is happening now.





muslim countries are the worst abusers of human rights. islamist terrorism is everywhere. honor killings go as far muslims in the west. the palestinian conflict never ends because of the hatred muslims feed themselves against the jews.

so what the hell are you talking about?
100 million native Americans murdered since the 1800s and 40 million Jews along with an unknown number of Polynesians, Australians and New Zealanders
Seems to be somewhat worse than the atrocities that were done 1000 years agou under the name of the "Holy Roman" Empire.

Even today have you looked at what "Christian Missionaries" are doing in Africa and NW India.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 352,538 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
100 million native Americans murdered since the 1800s and 40 million Jews along with an unknown number of Polynesians, Australians and New Zealanders
Seems to be somewhat worse than the atrocities that were done 1000 years agou under the name of the "Holy Roman" Empire.

Even today have you looked at what "Christian Missionaries" are doing in Africa and NW India.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/American_Indian_Holocaust

Estimates of the pre-Columbian population vary widely, though uncontroversial studies place the figure for North, Central and South America at a combined 50 million to 100 million,[1] with scholarly estimates of 2 million[2] to 18 million[3] for North America alone. An estimated 80% to 90% of this population died after the arrival of Europeans,[4] overwhelmingly from factors beyond most human control — e.g., smallpox epidemics[5] — Europeans, especially the Spanish conquistadors, also killed thousands deliberately


so its really nowhere near as bad as you suggest

and what do you think missionaries are doing in africa?
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,320,105 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
----SNIP-----
and what do you think missionaries are doing in africa?

African Children Denounced As "Witches" By Christian Pastors

https://thetaleofbittertruth.wordpre...ians-in-kenya/

Children are targets of Nigerian witch hunt | World news | The Guardian

Quote:
Return to Africa's Witch ChildrenA story of an estimated 15,000 children in Africa's Niger Delta being denounced by Christian pastors as witches and wizards and then killed, tortured or abandoned by their own families.
Return to Africa's Witch Children - Top Documentary Films

The Reality of Burning Witches (Trigger Warning) | The Wild Hunt

Child Murder For Jesus
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 352,538 times
Reputation: 152
^ i dont think those were done by missionaries but by local pastors.

its terrible. another bad mark on christianity. but whats your point? they do it because of moses' teachings, not because of jesus.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,121,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
So what are those teachings and where can we get them?
Moses didn't teach any of his own ideas. When he thought his god told him to do a very immoral act, he just passed the order on to his followers and they committed the immoral act.

Of course, I am referring to Chapter 31 in the Book of Numbers.
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