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Old 03-19-2015, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
^ i dont think those were done by missionaries but by local pastors.

its terrible. another bad mark on christianity. but whats your point? they do it because of moses' teachings, not because of jesus.
My point being there are quite a few people that read the Bible and ignore the teachings of Jesus(a.s.)

Because people do atrocities, does not mean it is a result of their religions.
I believe that most who do atrocities in the name of religion, have a desire to do the atrocities and then use selective reading to justify their actions.
The best modern examples are probably the "Lord's Resistence Army" "ISIS" "National Liberation Front of Tripura" and "National Democratic Front of Bodoland"
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Old 03-19-2015, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My point being there are quite a few people that read the Bible and ignore the teachings of Jesus(a.s.)

Because people do atrocities, does not mean it is a result of their religions.
I believe that most who do atrocities in the name of religion, have a desire to do the atrocities and then use selective reading to justify their actions.
The best modern examples are probably the "Lord's Resistence Army" "ISIS" "National Liberation Front of Tripura" and "National Democratic Front of Bodoland"
but those witch hunts are the result of religion! what do you think gave them that idea?
christianity's greatest mistake is when they attached the torah into their bible.

but at least they have great positive teachings in the new testament that acts as a counter balance against the violence of the old teachings. and thankfully thats what most christians try to observe.


dont you think it would have made a difference if the golden rule & turning the other cheek are actually written in the quran?
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Old 03-19-2015, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
but those witch hunts are the result of religion! what do you think gave them that idea?
christianity's greatest mistake is when they attached the torah into their bible.

but at least they have great positive teachings in the new testament that acts as a counter balance against the violence of the old teachings. and thankfully thats what most christians try to observe.


dont you think it would have made a difference if the golden rule & turning the other cheek are actually written in the quran?
It did not seem to work for Christianity.

Just my opinion, but I believe setting realistic limitations is more effective than an unattainable ideal.
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Old 03-20-2015, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It did not seem to work for Christianity.

Just my opinion, but I believe setting realistic limitations is more effective than an unattainable ideal.
You are a muslim in the land of christians, and you love it there.


now whats the reality of a minority living in the land of muslims?

Indonesia
Indonesia: Rights Rollback for Religious Minorities, Women | Human Rights Watch

Turkey
Turkey 'guilty of religious discrimination' - Al Jazeera English

Dubai
Christian Persecution in United Arab Emirates - Open Doors UK & Ireland


Those are supposedly the most tolerant muslim countries in the world. You know how bad it is in actual countries that call themselves "islamic".


Many muslims treat minorities as enemies. How many christians treat you as an enemy? How many death threats did you get for your 'treason' (converting to a different faith)? Did your christian family, friends and neighbors disown you?

And you still insist the nicest teachings of jesus doesnt work.

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Old 03-20-2015, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
You are a muslim in the land of christians, and you love it there.


now whats the reality of a minority living in the land of muslims?

Indonesia
Indonesia: Rights Rollback for Religious Minorities, Women | Human Rights Watch

Turkey
Turkey 'guilty of religious discrimination' - Al Jazeera English

Dubai
Christian Persecution in United Arab Emirates - Open Doors UK & Ireland


Those are supposedly the most tolerant muslim countries in the world. You know how bad it is in actual countries that call themselves "islamic".


Many muslims treat minorities as enemies. How many christians treat you as an enemy? How many death threats did you get for your 'treason' (converting to a different faith)? Did your christian family, friends and neighbors disown you?

And you still insist the nicest teachings of jesus doesnt work.
Working backwards
While only Muslims born in Dubai can be citizens of Dubai, virtually 90 percnt of the residents in Dubai are non-Citizens and most are Hindus from India.
Christians in Dubai are a very small minority, yet from CBN News we find this:

Biggest Church in the Middle East

It's also home to the largest Evangelical church in all the Middle East.


Dr. V. Dilkumar is the pastor of King's Revival International Church in Dubai.

"It was so surprising and amazing that this lovely country could be a peaceful home for Christians," Dilkumar told CBN News.

In 1991, Dilkumar, an engineer by trade, moved to Dubai from his native home in Sri Lanka.

King's Revival

Like so many other expatriates, he came here searching for riches. But he says God had other plans for him.

He started a small house church with seven people. Eighteen years later, King's Revival Church International has some 7,000 members and 24 pastors.

"Never did I ever expect such things, never, never," Dilkumar explained. "I only rejoice for what I am today because of Jesus."

Thousands come to worship Jesus in a multitude of languages seven days a week. CBN News visited the church during one recent Friday morning service.

Dubai: A Spiritual Oasis - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

From Turkey
The Turkish government will allow for the construction of a new church for the first time in nearly 100 years, Turkish media recently reported. The move comes amid increased persecution of the religious minority in the Middle East.

The state will fund the construction of the church, which will serve Turkey’s Syriac Christian community. According to officials, this will be the first church constructed in Turkey since the creation of the republic in 1923.
In time of fear for Mideast Christians, Turkey approves first new church in 92 years - Christian News - Jerusalem Post

Now for Indonesia, is that a news article or an editorial opinion?
From other sources:
Christianity's Surge in Indonesia

By Hannah Beech / Temanggung
TIME
TIME - Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews
April 26, 2010

They flocked to the open field by the hundreds to praise Allah. In a village in central Java, just a few miles from where Indonesian special forces shot dead an Islamic terrorist linked to the fatal July bombings of two hotels in Jakarta, worshippers raised their hands to the heavens. But this ceremony, which took place as the call of the muezzin echoed in the sultry air, was not a celebration of Islam. Instead, in the heart of the world's most populous Muslim-majority nation, Christians held a Pentecostal revival, complete with faith healing and speaking in tongues. As a tropical downpour fell, believers' tears mixed with rain - and a line of sick and disabled took to the stage to claim they had been cured by a God they, like Indonesian Muslims, call Allah. "People think Indonesia is just a Muslim country, but look at all these people," says pastor David Nugroho, whose Gesing church boasts a congregation of 400 worshippers today, up from 30 when it was founded in 1967. "We are not afraid to show our faith."

Christianity's Surge in Indonesia | Virtueonline
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Adding to the above.
In the Turkey link what is called religious discrimination is a complaint from one religious meeting house

Turkey was taken to the top human rights court in 2010 by the Republican Education and Cultural Center Foundation, an Alevi organisation also known as Cem Foundation. The group objected to the state practice of not paying the electricity bills for an Istanbul cemevi - where Alevis hold rituals - while doing so for mosques, churches and synagogues.

According to Turkish law, the electricity bills for places of worship are paid from a fund administered by the Directorate of Religious Affairs, a state institution dealing with religious issues.
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Old 03-23-2015, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Working backwards
While only Muslims born in Dubai can be citizens of Dubai, virtually 90 percnt of the residents in Dubai are non-Citizens and most are Hindus from India.
that does not justify the persecution of a muslim citizen who converts to christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The state will fund the construction of the church, which will serve Turkey’s Syriac Christian community. According to officials, this will be the first church constructed in Turkey since the creation of the republic in 1923.
In time of fear for Mideast Christians, Turkey approves first new church in 92 years - Christian News - Jerusalem Post
"While Christians are allowed to practice their religion in the Muslim majority country, they face restrictions"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

Now for Indonesia, is that a news article or an editorial opinion?
From other sources:
Christianity's Surge in Indonesia

By Hannah Beech / Temanggung
TIME
TIME - Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews
April 26, 2010
Friday, July 13, 2012

JAKARTA, Indonesia - Persecution against Christian churches in Indonesia is still rampant especially in the province of Aceh.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/201...rmed-by-Faith/
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
that does not justify the persecution of a muslim citizen who converts to christianity.
Here it all depends on what constitutes persecution. A person who leaves the membership of any organization be it religious or seculr, will no longer receive the benefits or privileges of that organization. I have a Costco membership. If I refuse to renew my annual membership, I will no longer be permitted to shop in a Costco store. Am I being persecuted because I left my membership?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
"While Christians are allowed to practice their religion in the Muslim majority country, they face restrictions


Friday, July 13, 2012

JAKARTA, Indonesia - Persecution against Christian churches in Indonesia is still rampant especially in the province of Aceh.
Indonesia Churches Explode with Growth - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com
The Aceh region of Indonesia is a breakaway province that is separating itself from the remainder of Indonesia. No one is forced to move to the Aceh region. The region is seeking to be 100% Muslim with no non-Muslims allowed . Not much different from the Amish Communities one finds in the USA and elsewhere. Also not much different from the Native American Reservations one finds in the USA.

Indonesia is a loosely connected republic formed of thousands of islands and a very diverse culture made up of hundreds of ethnic groups. The question arises, does Aceh have a right to have it's own ethnicity?

The people in the Aceh province are of 10 indigeneous tribes with about 90% of the population being the Acehnese tribe. Do these people have the right to establish their own distinct community within the Nation of Indonesia?

What would be the world opinion be if they were attempting to establish and All Christian Community, or an all Jewish Community or an all Atheist community?

Do the Acehnese have the right to establish their own identity as long as they do so without trying to overthrow the Indonesian government?
I think the whole hullabaloo over Aceh is directly related to this:

Quote:
Exxon Mobil human rights abuse lawsuit
Main article: ExxonMobil violations in Indonesia

On 21 June 2001 11 villagers from an Acehnese village in the North Aceh Regency used the Alien Tort Claims Act to sue Exxon Mobil in United States federal court for human rights abuses at the Arun natural gas field. The villagers claim they were tortured, raped, or murdered by soldiers from the Indonesian military. They claimed that Exxon Mobil created barracks to be used for torture of detainees and gave the Indonesian military unit which guarded the Exxon-Mobil natural gas field heavy equipment to cover mass burials after a clash with separatists.[32] Exxon Mobil reportedly shut down the site because of escalating violence. The villagers need to reveal their identities in order to receive Indonesian government protection, but are reluctant to do so for fear of reprisals from the Indonesian military.
Aceh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As a Result of that world pressure upon Indonesia resulted in Indonesia relenting and giving the Aceh region the right to it's own ethnic identity. Now the same external factors are upset because that identity forbids Christianity.
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Old 03-24-2015, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Here it all depends on what constitutes persecution. A person who leaves the membership of any organization be it religious or seculr, will no longer receive the benefits or privileges of that organization. I have a Costco membership. If I refuse to renew my annual membership, I will no longer be permitted to shop in a Costco store. Am I being persecuted because I left my membership?


The countries surveyed that expressly make apostasy a capital offense are Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen

Laws Criminalizing Apostasy


now whats that thing about costco again?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Aceh region of Indonesia is a breakaway province that is separating itself from the remainder of Indonesia. No one is forced to move to the Aceh region. The region is seeking to be 100% Muslim with no non-Muslims allowed . Not much different from the Amish Communities one finds in the USA and elsewhere. Also not much different from the Native American Reservations one finds in the USA.

Indonesia is a loosely connected republic formed of thousands of islands and a very diverse culture made up of hundreds of ethnic groups. The question arises, does Aceh have a right to have it's own ethnicity?

The people in the Aceh province are of 10 indigeneous tribes with about 90% of the population being the Acehnese tribe. Do these people have the right to establish their own distinct community within the Nation of Indonesia?

What would be the world opinion be if they were attempting to establish and All Christian Community, or an all Jewish Community or an all Atheist community?

Do the Acehnese have the right to establish their own identity as long as they do so without trying to overthrow the Indonesian government?
I think the whole hullabaloo over Aceh is directly related to this:
woodrow, indonesia as a whole is the problem. and the victims are not limited to christians:

Indonesia: Religious Minorities Targets of Rising Violence | Human Rights Watch






Muslims really need some teachings of Jesus from the bible.
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Old 04-07-2015, 05:03 PM
 
5 posts, read 2,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
So what are those teachings and where can we get them?
One of my objections to the claim that Mohammed was a true prophet of God, is that he contradicted all the other known prophets of God. In fact, he changed the true worship of God into falsehood. The prophet Abel was made righteous before God by virtue of a sacrifice of a lamb for his sins. Mohammed says that sacrifice for sins has no place in the worship of God. The prophet Job offered sacrifices for the forgiveness of the sins of his family. Moses spoke as much of the sacrifices as he did of keeping the moral law. Isaiah was forgiven in the presence of God Himself by virtue of the sacrifice. In the 53 rd chapter of his book he explains that the sacrifices point to the coming Savior who would die for the sins of the world, so that God could forgive their sins. The Savior he was talking about was Jesus Christ.
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