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Old 03-17-2015, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
One can not be a Muslim without following the teaching of Moses and Jesus.

Islam is, to a very large degree, Christianity minus the error of the Trinity.

So what are those teachings and where can we get them?
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Canada
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ok Woodrow, what so called "teachings of jesus" do you personally subscribe to? just curious.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
ok Woodrow, what so called "teachings of jesus" do you personally subscribe to? just curious.
In simple words
From Jesus:
Primarily the sermon on the mount, with special attention to Matt 5: 1-11
Further in reading the NT I find that if you remove the duplication, very little are quotes from Jesus. I do find that the majority of the quotes of Jesus(as) do not contradict the Qur'an.

From Moses:
First and foremost the 10 commandments, but not in the Christian context,-- more in line with the Torah in that they are not commandments, but are the 10 categories of the 613 Mitzvah. However I do not believe all 613 Mitzvah are still applicable. .then again neither do the Jews.

I find that quite a bit of the Torah, Tanakh and Oral Tradition are compatible with Islam.
Although the only parts that contain the word of Allah(swt) are the Torah and Psalms.
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Old 03-17-2015, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,151 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
In simple words
From Jesus:
Primarily the sermon on the mount, with special attention to Matt 5: 1-11
Further in reading the NT I find that if you remove the duplication, very little are quotes from Jesus. I do find that the majority of the quotes of Jesus(as) do not contradict the Qur'an.
are you sure?
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
didnt you just say a while ago that is like blasphemy?

and what do you understand as the:
“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
From Moses:
First and foremost the 10 commandments, but not in the Christian context,-- more in line with the Torah in that they are not commandments, but are the 10 categories of the 613 Mitzvah. However I do not believe all 613 Mitzvah are still applicable. .then again neither do the Jews.

I find that quite a bit of the Torah, Tanakh and Oral Tradition are compatible with Islam.
Although the only parts that contain the word of Allah(swt) are the Torah and Psalms.
so what corrections were made on that?

Last edited by sophion; 03-17-2015 at 06:46 PM..
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Old 03-17-2015, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
are you sure? did you even read whats in that passage?
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
didnt you just say a while ago that is equivalent to blasphemy?

and what do you understand as the:
“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
so kind of correction did mohammad do about that?

While I disagree with the wording of Natt 5:11 I do not disagree with the basic meaning or the intent. I do doubt if those are the actual words Jesus said, But we do not have the original Aramaic to compare.

as for
“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven

I do not see where that contradicts the Qur'an.

Muhammad(saaws) did not do any corrections. Not a word in the Qur'an was authored by Muhammad(saaws) He was simply relating what was dictated to him.
The corrections are that which differ from the current versions of the previous scriptures.
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Old 03-17-2015, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While I disagree with the wording of Natt 5:11 I do not disagree with the basic meaning or the intent. I do doubt if those are the actual words Jesus said, But we do not have the original Aramaic to compare.
how can you say "One can not be a Muslim without following the teaching of Moses and Jesus"
if you are not really sure what they have been teaching?
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Old 03-17-2015, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
how can you say "One can not be a Muslim without following the teaching of Moses and Jesus"
if you are not really sure what they have been teaching?

Because they taught the exact same message that is in the Qur'an Where we see differences is the errors that crept in over time. If the original message had remained intact there never would have been any need for further Prophets(PBUT)

There has always been the same message. Muhammad(saaws) is simply the last Prophet to receive it. Last chance, it will never be revealed again, we either get it right this time or we don't. Either way it will never be sent again.
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Old 03-17-2015, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Because they taught the exact same message that is in the Qur'an Where we see differences is the errors that crept in over time. If the original message had remained intact there never would have been any need for further Prophets(PBUT)
are you sure? so where is this message in the Quran:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
Or is that an error? if so, whats bad about it? (well except for that "children of your father" part, unless you accept the explanation of other muslims that the phrase is ok when not taken literally)

You know, i really really reaaaaaaally think thats the kind of message muslims around the world should be learning right now.
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Old 03-17-2015, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
are you sure? so where is this message in the Quran:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
Or is that an error? if so, whats bad about it? (well except for that "children of your father" part, unless you accept the explanation of other muslims that the phrase is ok when not taken literally)

You know, i really really reaaaaaaally think thats the kind of message muslims around the world should be learning right now.
The same message is found in the Qur'an and Ahadith not quite worded the same but the same message

“Serve God, and join not any partners with Him; and do good – to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, neighbors who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess [the slave]: For God loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious” (Q:4:36)

“None of you have faith until you love for your neighbor what you love for yourself” (Sahih Muslim)

“Whoever wishes to be delivered from the fire and to enter Paradise…should treat the people as he wishes to be treated.” (Sahih Muslim)

“None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself” (Forty Hadith-Nawawi)

“It is better to interpret this as brotherhood in general, such that it includes the disbeliever and the Muslim. So he should love for his brother, the disbeliever, what he loves for himself which is his entering Islam, just as he should love for his brother Muslim that he remains in Islam. For this reason, it is recommended to supplicate for the disbeliever to be guided. The meaning of love here is an intention for good and benefit, and this meaning is religious love, not human love.” [Sharh Arba’een An-Nawawi, Hadith Number 13]

“None of you will find the sweetness of faith until he loves a person only for the sake of Allah.”[Sahih Bukhari, Book 73, Number 67]

“Whoever would love to be delivered from the Hellfire and entered into Paradise, then let him die with faith in Allah and the Last Day, and let him treat the people the way he would love to be treated.”[Musnad Ahmad, Number 6768, Sahih]

“By the one in whose hand is my soul, you will not enter Paradise until you submit, and you will not submit until you love one another; greet each other with peace and you will love one another; and beware of hatred, for it is the razor; I do not say it shaves hair, but it shaves away the religion.”

[Al-Bukhari, Al-Adab Al-Mufrad, Number 260, Hasan]
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Old 03-18-2015, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,151 times
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^ no no no you totally missed the point. the message was to offer kindness to those that you would rather hate. where is that in any of the quotes you mentioned? if that message is in the quran you wouldnt have islamic inspired genocide of shias & yazidis. you wouldnt have church bombings every 6 months. the palestinian conflict would have ended decades ago!

some of the most important messages of jesus are missing in your 'holy' book.
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