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Old 03-27-2015, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,914 times
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They might not be studious and pious, but they could still become good Muslims, Levitt said. They could still reach the highest level of paradise through the ultimate sacrifice: martyrdom.
The 13th Juror: The radicalization of Jahar - CNN.com





This isnt about the definition of 'martyrdom', or what constitutes martyrdom. the question is does a 'legitimate' martyrdom guarantee salvation for a muslim? yes or no?
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Old 03-27-2015, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Your second phrase turns this into a loaded question. It is like trying to answer "Have you stopped abusing your mother?" yes or no, with no explanation..

In order to answer, one needs to know what is perceived as "legitimate" martyrdom.
I am quite certain that will differ considerably person to person.
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Old 03-27-2015, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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The best answer I can give is:
If a person's martyrdom does not assure them of heaven, it is not a legitimate martyrdom. That is left to Allaah(swt) to determine. We human's are not capable of perfect judgement.
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Old 03-27-2015, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Your second phrase turns this into a loaded question. It is like trying to answer "Have you stopped abusing your mother?" yes or no, with no explanation..
your sample question is an insult. whats insulting or humiliating about 'guaranteed salvation'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
In order to answer, one needs to know what is perceived as "legitimate" martyrdom.
I am quite certain that will differ considerably person to person.
exactly. thats why its a waste of time discussing what an acceptable martyrdom should be.



so i take it that even you believe that some form of martyrdom will get you through the doors to paradise guaranteed.
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Old 03-27-2015, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
your sample question is an insult. whats insulting or humiliating about 'guaranteed salvation'?


exactly. thats why its a waste of time discussing what an acceptable martyrdom should be.



so i take it that even you believe that some form of martyrdom will get you through the doors to paradise guaranteed.
There is no act any human can do that will assure them of heaven. That is left to Allaah(swt) alone. It is only through his mercy we can reach heaven and he freely forgives all who sincerely ask for forgiveness.

We can not earn our way into heaven by any means. It is given freely as a gift to those who sincerly repent of their sins and ask for forgiveness.
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Old 03-27-2015, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Canada
430 posts, read 351,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
There is no act any human can do that will assure them of heaven. That is left to Allaah(swt) alone. It is only through his mercy we can reach heaven and he freely forgives all who sincerely ask for forgiveness.

We can not earn our way into heaven by any means. It is given freely as a gift to those who sincerly repent of their sins and ask for forgiveness.

oh thats right in islam there are no guarantees. its why you always say "peace be upon him" every time you mention the name "mohammad". he could still end up in hell for some reason.


but you do expect to receive this "gift" on certain forms of martyrdom, right?
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Old 03-27-2015, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophion View Post
oh thats right in islam there are no guarantees. its why you always say "peace be upon him" every time you mention the name "mohammad". he could still end up in hell for some reason.


but you do expect to receive this "gift" on certain forms of martyrdom, right?
Just my opinion. If a person seeks martyrdom, they will never achieve it.

A Martyr does not seek to die. They do what needs to be done in spite of adversity and hardship without denying or disobeying Allaah(swt) even if it results in their death

To die as a martyr is not proof the person was pious, but it is an indication the person was pious and sincerely did his best to obey Allaah(swt) It is reasonable to assume they sought forgiveness and loved Allaah(swt) more than life.
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