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Old 04-26-2015, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
I agree "Islam is a verb".

I base my conclusion on interactions with Christians & Muslims.

I am Catholic. However, that fact didn't stop Christian groups from trying to convert me. They said:

I must be born again to receive blessings on earth and gain entry to heaven.

They invited me to retreats, dinner parties, and rallies.

Muslims, with just one exception, have never tried to convert me.

His line was along the line fed to the assailants of 27 year old blogger Washiqur Rahman. That by following blindly the orders of men, that I would go to heaven and be gifted within 3 days.

I gather God is a bit slow to review files which accounts for the delay. Alternately, God must wait to make sure you won't arise from the dead.

I declined the Muslim man's kind offer. I told him:

God has already blessed me with an incredible life. Expecting additional rewards would be greedy.

So how does this make Islam a verb? Simple. Instead of converting people, Muslims are more active in performing far more communal prayers, and actively shaping society itself.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but the ticket to heaven for a Muslim isn't based on an inward acceptance of God, rather it based on fulfilling the duties and commands.

I see a Kuwait cleric renewed a call to tear down the Great Pyramids and Sphinx. Now that represents a lot of action.

Preventing worship of idolatry is a big task
There are very many similarities between Catholicism and Islam.
We believe that every person will be rewarded for their good and punished for their sins.
Many probably most of us will spend time in hell being purified before entering heaven.
The concept is nearly identical with the Catholic purgatory.
We also believe no amount of good deeds will get us into heaven. That can only come from our asking for forgiveness and repenting to the best of our ability.
The action of Islam is the submission to doing our best to serve Allaah(swt) this can be done with words, thoughts or deeds. Actually should entail all. Every thing we do, say or think should be an offering to Allaah(swt)
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Big Island of Hawaii & HOT BuOYS Sailing Vessel
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Despite understanding the religious justifications, I am still distressed by the destruction of the past and Islamic heritage.

The indifference of most Muslims perhaps distresses me more.

To prevent destruction of the Green Dome and Phrophet's tomb, which of these approaches is more likely to work?

#1 Logic - It is Counter Productive
If the intent is to prevent idol worship, the efforts are failing and counter productive. Obvious to me, those encouraging destroying all evidence have never raised a teenage girl. There is no more certain way to encourage a teenager than to try and prevent by banning and destroying.

Many of the places destroyed recently were previously unknown to most of the world. Now because of their destruction, millions upon millions of people have viewed these sites and store pictures on their computers and phones.
I didn't know the tomb of the Prophet still survived.

#2 Shame
The worlds greatest losses have been associated with ancient writings and the libraries that contained them. The height of the intellectual Islamics was centered in
House of Wisdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The House of Wisdom ( Arabic : ﺑﻴﺖ ﺍﻟﺤﻜﻤﺔ ; Bayt al-Hikma )
was a major intellectual center during the Islamic Golden
Age. The House of Wisdom was founded by Caliph Harun
al-Rashid (reigned 786–809) and culminated under his son
al-Ma'mun (reigned 813–833).

By destroying all writings, carvings and engravings associated with the Phrophet, Islamics are acting no better than Mongols that during the Siege of Baghdad (1258) destroyed Islam's greatest record of accomplishment.

Muslims supporting destruction might logically be called Mongol dogs.

#3 Boycot
Much of the recent destruction began in Mecca and Medina. It was conducted to accommodate an ever growing number of pilgrims. Religious justifications endorsed the removal of anything ancient Islamic and the replacement with Hilton, Starbucks and KFC.

This destruction then spread like a cancer throughout the Muslim community. If replacing the Phrophet's home by public toilets was fine, certainly any kind of destruction is fine.

So stop. Stop going to Mecca and let the city implode with vacant 5 and 7 star hotels with room service that now are the real worship activity in Saudi Arabia.

Alternarely go, and only pray in the new public toilet.

#4 Object
At prayer, pray only with your back toward Mecca. It will be extemely scary for the first few to do so. However, they can point out they both worship God, and respect the Phrophet. It is the clearest way to object to Saudi destruction of everything associated with the Phrophet.

Facing Saudi Arabia is an endorsement. It only continues expands the cancer.

#5 Isolation
Saudi Arabia is large and wealthy enough to accommodate all Muslims that are indifferent to this destruction. So if we can isolate the "poison" as Tony Blair calls it, the heritage of the remaining billion + Muslims can be saved. Egypt can keep pyramids, the US can keep the Washington Monument, France can keep Norte Dame, and the Vatican would be safe.

Ideas? The entire world is rising to object to Islam and any Muslim.

Last edited by pbmaise; 04-28-2015 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Here is the issue we are faced with.
Every Muslim is obligated to go to Hajj once in his life time, if he is physically and financially able.
The obligation is not a trip to Mecca at any time, the obligation if to perform Hajj which takes place during the Month of Hajj it takes 5 days to complete Hajj. the 8th to 12th day of the Month of Hajj
There are now 1,7 billion Muslims. If 3 million can be accommodated for Hajj it will take 500 years for each Muslim living today to do Hajj
To enable every Muslim the opportunity to do Hajj in his lifetime Mecca is going to have to accommodate at least 40 million people during the 5 days of Hajj. It will still take about 40 years for every Muslim to do Hajj.
What this means is nearly every inch of Mecca is going to have to be sleeping quarters and food providers. along with the reality of toilets.
There is no room for tourist attractions etc
Currently it seems Mecca is maxed out at 3 million people for Hajj that is less than 10% of the capacity needed.
any desire of Mecca being a tourist center has to be abandoned and all concern has to be placed on closing Mecca to all people for the entire year except to residents and open Mecca only during the 5 days of Hajj. It will take the entire population a full year to clean up after Hajj and prepare for the upcoming Hajj.
currently for the pilgrims to circumvent the Qibla the Masjid around the Qibla is 3 floors high, that will have to be increased to 30
less than 100 years ago Mecca looked like this during Hajj


Last year it looked like this






Saudi has to forget about having Mecca as a tourist attraction and concentrate on how to accommodate the Pilgrims for Hajj.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma USA
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Unhappy Questions, Observations from a Western Deist

Destruction of any sort of historical site or monument is disturbing to me. I see them as resources for all of humankind to learn about our past.

No matter where our ancestors came from, or what our ancestral faith tradition, all of us communicating on computers have cultural heritage from the arts and sciences of the Middle East!

My question is, does or does not the Islamic ethic have a place for historical sites as places of learning and heritage simply as historical sites? (ie, not as places for worship, but as repositories of history and heritage).

My idea is that people who are inclined to worship "things" or "places" will find something or somewhere to designate as more sacred than some other thing or place. If you destroy their idols, they will secretively make new idols, or start to worship the clay or plastic that they could make new idols out of if they cannot actually craft new idols. If you destroy their buildings, they will worship pictures of the buildings, or sit around lamenting and making mental images and telling stories about the buildings.

Some people are just plain oriented to worshipping things and places, and all the intervention in the world is not going to change that.

Other people, perhaps more enlightened in my eyes or in our Muslim correspondents' eyes, perceive Divinity as -- let me think how to say this -- ubiquitous as compared to encapsulated.

Right now I see the Islamic world in great foment, and I cannot help but think that it would be a great help for young people struggling towards a wholesome self-concept as people of a great heritage of learning and accomplishment in the Sciences to be able to reflect upon the accomplishments of their ancestors. Millenia-old buildings are vibrant proof of magnificent heritage in architecture, engineering and mathematics.

Destroying historical sites just leaves confused people de-racinated and less settled in a comfortable sense of self.

Historical sites -- especially architectural ones -- show everybody everywhere that half the world has a common heritage in the scientific genius of the ancient Middle East.

$0.02 cheerfully refundable.
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,331,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodmockingbird View Post
Destruction of any sort of historical site or monument is disturbing to me. I see them as resources for all of humankind to learn about our past.

No matter where our ancestors came from, or what our ancestral faith tradition, all of us communicating on computers have cultural heritage from the arts and sciences of the Middle East!

My question is, does or does not the Islamic ethic have a place for historical sites as places of learning and heritage simply as historical sites? (ie, not as places for worship, but as repositories of history and heritage).

My idea is that people who are inclined to worship "things" or "places" will find something or somewhere to designate as more sacred than some other thing or place. If you destroy their idols, they will secretively make new idols, or start to worship the clay or plastic that they could make new idols out of if they cannot actually craft new idols. If you destroy their buildings, they will worship pictures of the buildings, or sit around lamenting and making mental images and telling stories about the buildings.

Some people are just plain oriented to worshipping things and places, and all the intervention in the world is not going to change that.

Other people, perhaps more enlightened in my eyes or in our Muslim correspondents' eyes, perceive Divinity as -- let me think how to say this -- ubiquitous as compared to encapsulated.

Right now I see the Islamic world in great foment, and I cannot help but think that it would be a great help for young people struggling towards a wholesome self-concept as people of a great heritage of learning and accomplishment in the Sciences to be able to reflect upon the accomplishments of their ancestors. Millenia-old buildings are vibrant proof of magnificent heritage in architecture, engineering and mathematics.

Destroying historical sites just leaves confused people de-racinated and less settled in a comfortable sense of self.

Historical sites -- especially architectural ones -- show everybody everywhere that half the world has a common heritage in the scientific genius of the ancient Middle East.

$0.02 cheerfully refundable.
There are only 5 things all Muslims are commanded to do. Those 5 being:


5 pillars of Islam

1) The Testimony of Faith:
The testimony of faith is saying with conviction, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah.” This saying means “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah),1 and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” The first part, “There is no true god but God,” means that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone, and that God has neither partner nor son. This testimony of faith is called the Shahada, a simple formula which should be said with conviction in order to convert to Islam (as explained previously on this page). The testimony of faith is the most important pillar of Islam.

2) Prayer:
Muslims perform five prayers a day. Each prayer does not take more than a few minutes to perform. Prayer in Islam is a direct link between the worshipper and God. There are no intermediaries between God and the worshipper.
In prayer, a person feels inner happiness, peace, and comfort, and that God is pleased with him or her. The Prophet Muhammad said: {Bilal, call (the people) to prayer, let us be comforted by it.}2 Bilal was one of Muhammad’s companions who was charged to call the people to prayers.
Prayers are performed at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night. A Muslim may pray almost anywhere, such as in fields, offices, factories, or universities.


3) Giving Zakat (Support of the Needy):
All things belong to God, and wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The original meaning of the word zakat is both ‘purification’ and ‘growth.’ Giving zakat means ‘giving a specified percentage on certain properties to certain classes of needy people.’ The percentage which is due on gold, silver, and cash funds that have reached the amount of about 85 grams of gold and held in possession for one lunar year is two and a half percent. Our possessions are purified by setting aside a small portion for those in need, and, like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.
A person may also give as much as he or she pleases as voluntary alms or charity.

4) Fasting the Month of Ramadan:
Every year in the month of Ramadan,4 all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown, abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations.
Although the fast is beneficial to health, it is regarded principally as a method of spiritual self-purification. By cutting oneself off from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person gains true sympathy with those who go hungry, as well as growth in his or her spiritual life.

5) The Pilgrimage to Makkah:
The annual pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah is an obligation once in a lifetime for those who are physically and financially able to perform it. About two million people go to Makkah each year from every corner of the globe. Although Makkah is always filled with visitors, the annual Hajj is performed in the twelfth month of the Islamic calendar. Male pilgrims wear special simple clothes which strip away distinctions of class and culture so that all stand equal before God.

Currently the maximum number of people that can be accommodated for Hajj is about 3 million.
If there to be any expectation of every Muslim being able to complete hajj the capacity has to be increased to handle at least 30 million during the 5 days of Hajj.
It is a matter of priorities. I agree it would be nice to retain as much of what is of Historical importance. But the reality is not all can be preserved.
What is of the most iportant?
1. The Qibla--the location the focal point for our 5 Salat, which was the Location of Abraham's alter and the Alter used by nearly all the Prophets after Abraham. that location is the marked by the Kaaba, the small building located in the Garand Mosque in Mecca. It if covered with a black cloth during Hajj. the Kabba contains several small stone fragments which we believe are the remnants of the altar. The Alter was smashed by Muhammad(saws) as it had become an altar for pagan sacrifices. He did save several small pieces as reminders that Arbrahma and other Prophets (pbut) prayed there. the first Kaaba was build by Muhammad(saws) although the Kaaba has been rebuilt at least 7 times it retains the same appearance it originally had.

the other areas of Islamic importance are visited during the Hajj
Mt Arafat
Muzdalifah
Mina and the 3 pillars of
The well of Zamzam, where Hajar and Ishmael found water.

for the Curious about Hajj here is a link the link was in the recent past when pilgrims brought tents to stay in and their own supply of food. today because of the huge number of people large hotels and restaurans and portable toilets haf replaced much of what was done.

Hajj, the Islamic Pilgrimage to Makkah - Day One
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Old 05-01-2015, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Speaking especially of the Green Dome.
It never should have been built, there are to be no tombs erected to any Prophet, or any Muslim.
The site is the location of a Mosque that was build by Muhammad(saws) in the year 1 AH (623 CE), But it is doubtful if there are any remnants of that remaining.
The dome was not built by Muhammad(saws) nor by any of his companions. The first dome was built in 765 AH (1364 CE) the the current dome was built in 1252 AH (1837 CE)
Outside of being the burial location of Muhammad (saws) it has little historical connection with Muhammad(saws) Also it is in Madinah not Mecca and is not a part of Hajj.

The Green dome has been highly criticized every since it was built by the Ottoman"s
Here is a long but excellent read about the Green dome

The green dome in Madeenah: its history and the ruling on its construction and on leaving it as it is - islamqa.info
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
Islam's highest religous man, the Grand Mufti Abdul-
Aziz ibn Abdullah Al Shaykh, began calling for the destruction of churches in a fatwa issued 15 March 2012. So far Muslims have burned over 1000 churches. He recently reissued it since obviously not enough is done.

In Mosul instead of destroying the Catholic cathedral, images and stainglass were removed and it is now a mosque. Don't all Catholics still look at the building itself? Is it a shirk to go 1/2 way?

His fatwa for the destruction of the Green Dome and the tombs of the Prophet, Abu Bakr and Umar below it, are the most difficult to understand.

This is an Islamic structure dating to 1247. It is true that while the dome and tombs remain, it enables pilgrims to venerate the dead. That is forbidden and tawhid.

However, doesn't cleansing of all physical evidence the Prophet take away from Saudi Arabia one of the prime reasons to visit? Yes it is tawhid to pawn tickets to view the remains of dead men and takes away from God. Are Muslims that view the tomb or fail to destroy it commiting shirk?

However, when oil runs out, tourism will be very important. Americans and Canadians will continue to develope larger reserves and are just starting to explore vast natural gas fields frozen below oceans.

Revenue is already drastically lower.

Further, the whole point of a pilgrimage is to view evidence from the past.

Perhaps the tombs may be relocated or closed to all so at a later date future Muslims and non-Muslims may see something from the past that is currently rejected in the present.

Thoughts? Keep or destroy the Prophet's tomb?
Comply or selectively ignore a fatwa?

I do not think there has been any talk of destroying the Mosque (Masjid Nabawi)
the concern is the Green dome that was constructed over the grave of Muhammad(saws) which is in the Mosque.
The Mosque itaselsf after the additions and remodlings over the centuries make it the second largest Mosque in the world and can hold about half a million people. The Room beneath the Green dome (The ar-Rawdah), is quite smal and can only hold about 100 people it is not accessible to the General Public.

for some nice pictures of the Mosque
Madina Haram | Beautiful Mosques
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Old 05-07-2015, 08:34 PM
 
4,435 posts, read 1,664,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
There are very many similarities between Catholicism and Islam.
We believe that every person will be rewarded for their good and punished for their sins.
Many probably most of us will spend time in hell being purified before entering heaven.

The concept is nearly identical with the Catholic purgatory.
We also believe no amount of good deeds will get us into heaven. That can only come from our asking for forgiveness and repenting to the best of our ability.
The action of Islam is the submission to doing our best to serve Allaah(swt) this can be done with words, thoughts or deeds. Actually should entail all. Every thing we do, say or think should be an offering to Allaah(swt)
Ya Sheikh, I do not disagree with you on the two bold parts above; however, I would like to add that part of our faith is that "scales will be set on the judgement day", one side for the good deeds and the other side for the bad deeds.

If the good deeds out weigh the bad deeds and sins, then chances of attaining Allah's mercy are inshallah very high.

And God forbids, the bad deeds out weigh the good deeds then Allah is merciful and we remain hopeful, as Islam always gives glad tidings to those who remain hopeful for the mercy of Allah..

A pragmatic result of this part of the belief is what makes a Muslim keep on striving to do good deeds and try his best to avoid bad deeds as long as he/she lives.

If he does a good deed, he contributes it to Allah for making him do the good deed.

And if does a bad deed by mistake, he deems it as his own short coming, and he turns to his lord and begs forgiveness, and makes a promise to try not to do it again - and he tries to make up for the bad deed by doing an equal or better good deed ---- and we do it so because ------ "we have hope".
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Old 05-07-2015, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,331,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Ya Sheikh, I do not disagree with you on the two bold parts above; however, I would like to add that part of our faith is that "scales will be set on the judgement day", one side for the good deeds and the other side for the bad deeds.

If the good deeds out weigh the bad deeds and sins, then chances of attaining Allah's mercy are inshallah very high.

And God forbids, the bad deeds out weigh the good deeds then Allah is merciful and we remain hopeful, as Islam always gives glad tidings to those who remain hopeful for the mercy of Allah..

A pragmatic result of this part of the belief is what makes a Muslim keep on striving to do good deeds and try his best to avoid bad deeds as long as he/she lives.

If he does a good deed, he contributes it to Allah for making him do the good deed.



And if does a bad deed by mistake, he deems it as his own short coming, and he turns to his lord and begs forgiveness, and makes a promise to try not to do it again - and he tries to make up for the bad deed by doing an equal or better good deed ---- and we do it so because ------ "we have hope".
Jazakallahu Khairan Akhi,
You are correct.
I have found that when explaining the purpose of our deeds to non-Muslims we must be clear that they understand we can not "earn" our way into Jannah. That comes freely as gift because of the Mercy and Unlimited Goodness of Allaah(swt) and his forgiveness. All who die as a Muslim will reach Jannah.
Our good deeds and the good deeds of all people will be rewarded. Even the deeds of the most evil person to ever exist will be rewarded, but they will not get him into Jannah.
The rewards for our good deeds may come, during life, in the Grave or in the hereafter--or even in all 3. But they are not what gets us into heaven. A Muslim who has asked for forgiveness and has repented a moment before his death will reach Jannah, even if he has not done one good deed.in his lifetime.

A Muslim has no fear of death, it is our reward for passing the trials of Life. as you said we have hope and that hope comes from the knowledge of what we are promised. I find that the greatest earthly gift for avoiding evil and doing good is it keeps us from straying and makes our trials on earth easier to handle. Each good deed, increases our hope that we will die as a Muslim.
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