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Old 08-25-2015, 09:19 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,395 times
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"Yet a person who violates company rules can be fired and as a result face the possibility of never being able to find employment again, resulting in living the remainder of his life in abject poverty. (Torture)"

THINK! The rules your allah sets up are totally illegal and immoral! 'Work here only or we'll torture you endlessly. Follow these rules of hate and terrorism and we demand that you hate and slaughter people who do not buy our product and speak against what we sell before we start our endless painful torture. We'll give out women to rape as bonuses. And a few slaves.'

What company has such rules?? Do not make dishonest comparisons! You totally drop the context of morality!

Company rules are 'don't steal, give 2 weeks notice, do not sell company secrets, be able to perform your work'....how does this compare to 'slaughter and endlessly torture of people who do not agree with us'.

The workplace sets up MORAL rules and Islam sets up IMMORAL rules. And we're talking brutal torture and slaughter and terrorism and rape and pedophilia here.

"A person who disobeys the laws of the land can be arrested and face lifelong imprisonment. (Torture) for some people incarceration is a torture much worse than the administrating of physical pain."

Islam sets up immoral laws that incite murder and theft and rape and pedophilia. THIS is what Islam demands we submit to. Proper laws are set up to protect human rights ... Islam is set up to destroy human rights.

Seriously, the evidence piles up that Islam has wiped out any rational view of morality.

"For centuries, the battle of morality was fought between those who claimed that your life belongs to God and those who claimed that it belongs to your neighbors—between those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of ghosts in heaven and those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of incompetents on earth. And no one came to say that your life belongs to you and that the good is to live it." - Ayn Rand

I can proudly say: MY LIFE BELONGS TO ME. Not some imaginary sadistic monster in the sky.

Last edited by juju33312; 08-25-2015 at 09:22 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,308,309 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Yet a person who violates company rules can be fired and as a result face the possibility of never being able to find employment again, resulting in living the remainder of his life in abject poverty. (Torture)"

THINK! The rules your allah sets up are totally illegal and immoral! 'Work here only or we'll torture you endlessly. Follow these rules of hate and terrorism and we demand that you hate and slaughter people who do not buy our product and speak against what we sell before we start our endless painful torture. We'll give out women to rape as bonuses. And a few slaves.'

What company has such rules?? Do not make dishonest comparisons! You totally drop the context of morality!

Company rules are 'don't steal, give 2 weeks notice, do not sell company secrets, be able to perform your work'....how does this compare to 'slaughter and endlessly torture of people who do not agree with us'.

The workplace sets up MORAL rules and Islam sets up IMMORAL rules. And we're talking brutal torture and slaughter and terrorism and rape and pedophilia here.

"A person who disobeys the laws of the land can be arrested and face lifelong imprisonment. (Torture) for some people incarceration is a torture much worse than the administrating of physical pain."

Islam sets up immoral laws that incite murder and theft and rape and pedophilia. THIS is what Islam demands we submit to. Proper laws are set up to protect human rights ... Islam is set up to destroy human rights.

Seriously, the evidence piles up that Islam has wiped out any rational view of morality.

"For centuries, the battle of morality was fought between those who claimed that your life belongs to God and those who claimed that it belongs to your neighbors—between those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of ghosts in heaven and those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of incompetents on earth. And no one came to say that your life belongs to you and that the good is to live it." - Ayn Rand

I can proudly say: MY LIFE BELONGS TO ME. Not some imaginary sadistic monster in the sky.
Have you ever served in the military? there are some very horrific rules and violation of such will result in quite serious punishment.

As for your life belongs to you, the reality is it belongs to the social structure you choose to live in. As for myself I have found that Islam gives me thgreatest level of free choice and allows, rather obligates, me to evaluate all choices by myself and verify the outcome before acting.

Islam does not command us to harm anyone. Under any of the 4 Madhab s find one place we are commanded to be aggressors and harm people.

You need to look at Islam in a manner you look at Christianity. Christianity has the OT, The NT and Church Canons.

Islam has the Qur'an, Ahadith and the Madhabs. You need to look at all and not think the Qur'an is Islam. Islam consists of many facets and the Qur'an is not a stand alone manual.

To find how a Muslim follows Islam you need to look at each Muslim as an individual.

Are they Quranie (Qur'an only)

Do they follow a madhab and if so which one and which local form of it.

Have they studied Islam and if so was it in a Madrassas, university, Local Islamic Center, at a Mosque, etc.

Have they read the Qur'an, if so in what language

Are they Spiritual (Sufi) or Fundamentalist or Liberal

There are very many facets to Islam and to know what a person believes to be Islam you have to ask the individual. While the answer is simple Islam is the action of submitting to Allaah(swt0 you will find there are many views as to how that should be done.
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:40 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,395 times
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"Have you ever served in the military? there are some very horrific rules and violation of such will result in quite serious punishment"

You mean rules like not betraying your country? Again, you are unable to distinguish between good and evil....or identify that INITIATION of force is evil. The man who murders his fellow service members, like the US Muslim who killed fellow soldiers at Ft Hood, INITIATED force and deserves punishment. It's called justice.

The man who rapes is initiating force. Rape is not done in self defense. If a person breaks into your house and starts beating your wife and you shoot him...who is evil? You for protecting your wife? Can't you see the difference?

The same with a military. The proper purpose is to PROTECT citizens from invasion and RETALIATE and deal with threats. NOT to initiate force. Let me be clear here: No man.....or group or society or government......has the right to assume the role of a criminal and initiate the use of physical compulsion against any man. Men have the right to use physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use.

"As for your life belongs to you, the reality is it belongs to the social structure you choose to live in."

I choose to live in a country where I am afforded a high level of freedom. Muslims (and others) are trying to destroy that freedom. I am still living pretty darn free. And what you will not understand is that because I support the principle of individual rights and that we all own our own lives, Muslims may eventually force Shariah Law on this world, but in principle I will still own my life ... Islam never will. I do not submit. Want to slaughter me for that and see me roast in your imagined hellfire, fine. You can't force my mind.

"As for myself I have found that Islam gives me thgreatest level of free choice and allows, rather obligates, me to evaluate all choices by myself and verify the outcome before acting."

You are welcomed to hold that illusion. In fact, move to the middle east where you can experience Shariah Law's freedom in full.

What if this country decided that wicca is the only true religion and Wiccans started raping and slaughtering Muslims and bombing mosques and demanding Muslims convert to Wicca? What if Wiccans started beating up Muslims and rioting in Muslim countries and forcing Wicca laws down your throat and making you pay a Wicca tax and were taking over neighborhoods in Muslim countries and forcing Muslims out. Would you like that? This is what Muslims are doing.

"Islam does not command us to harm anyone."

Sorry, I've read the Quran and hadiths.

"You need to look at Islam in a manner you look at Christianity. Christianity has the OT, The NT and Church Canons."

I am living in a country that is mostly Christian. I am a woman and an atheist and I do not hide that I am an atheist. I can wear what I want and say what I want, although Muslims tried to slaughter a friend of mine recently who drew a cartoon. I have all the rights that a man does. No Christians bother me...they don't riot or fly planes into buildings or destroy historic landmarks. They don't tell me I'm going to hell if I don't convert. Although they mostly run the government, the 10 commandments are NOT the law here. It's secular and individual rights are still protected to a large degree. (THAT is why you feel free.) My husband does not treat me as someone he can beat and hide in the house unless I look like a garbage bag. The worst thing I suffer from Christians is an abundance of joy at Christmas.

"Islam consists of many facets and the Qur'an is not a stand alone manual."

The Quran is supposedly "the direct word from allah. the sacred text of Islam revered as the word of God, dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel, and accepted as the foundation of Islamic law, religion, culture, and politics."

"To find how a Muslim follows Islam you need to look at each Muslim as an individual."

I agree. That is why I spoke to over 2,500 'moderate' Muslims over the past 4 years. I found out how a Muslim follows Islam. They lied to me relentlessly. Like you, not ONE could speak against the horrible things Muhammed did. None could discuss morality rationally. All were much more interested in attacking me than attacking what Islamic terrorists were doing. That never happened. I'd say about 20 - 25% of them threatened to find me and my family and slaughter us. Many others just called me nasty names.

Muslims are pretty much alike when you start asking the right questions.
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Old 08-25-2015, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,308,309 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Have you ever served in the military? there are some very horrific rules and violation of such will result in quite serious punishment"

You mean rules like not betraying your country? Again, you are unable to distinguish between good and evil....or identify that INITIATION of force is evil. The man who murders his fellow service members, like the US Muslim who killed fellow soldiers at Ft Hood, INITIATED force and deserves punishment. It's called justice.

The man who rapes is initiating force. Rape is not done in self defense. If a person breaks into your house and starts beating your wife and you shoot him...who is evil? You for protecting your wife? Can't you see the difference?

The same with a military. The proper purpose is to PROTECT citizens from invasion and RETALIATE and deal with threats. NOT to initiate force. Let me be clear here: No man.....or group or society or government......has the right to assume the role of a criminal and initiate the use of physical compulsion against any man. Men have the right to use physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use.

"As for your life belongs to you, the reality is it belongs to the social structure you choose to live in."

I choose to live in a country where I am afforded a high level of freedom. Muslims (and others) are trying to destroy that freedom. I am still living pretty darn free. And what you will not understand is that because I support the principle of individual rights and that we all own our own lives, Muslims may eventually force Shariah Law on this world, but in principle I will still own my life ... Islam never will. I do not submit. Want to slaughter me for that and see me roast in your imagined hellfire, fine. You can't force my mind.

"As for myself I have found that Islam gives me thgreatest level of free choice and allows, rather obligates, me to evaluate all choices by myself and verify the outcome before acting."

You are welcomed to hold that illusion. In fact, move to the middle east where you can experience Shariah Law's freedom in full.

What if this country decided that wicca is the only true religion and Wiccans started raping and slaughtering Muslims and bombing mosques and demanding Muslims convert to Wicca? What if Wiccans started beating up Muslims and rioting in Muslim countries and forcing Wicca laws down your throat and making you pay a Wicca tax and were taking over neighborhoods in Muslim countries and forcing Muslims out. Would you like that? This is what Muslims are doing.

"Islam does not command us to harm anyone."

Sorry, I've read the Quran and hadiths.

"You need to look at Islam in a manner you look at Christianity. Christianity has the OT, The NT and Church Canons."

I am living in a country that is mostly Christian. I am a woman and an atheist and I do not hide that I am an atheist. I can wear what I want and say what I want, although Muslims tried to slaughter a friend of mine recently who drew a cartoon. I have all the rights that a man does. No Christians bother me...they don't riot or fly planes into buildings or destroy historic landmarks. They don't tell me I'm going to hell if I don't convert. Although they mostly run the government, the 10 commandments are NOT the law here. It's secular and individual rights are still protected to a large degree. (THAT is why you feel free.) My husband does not treat me as someone he can beat and hide in the house unless I look like a garbage bag. The worst thing I suffer from Christians is an abundance of joy at Christmas.

"Islam consists of many facets and the Qur'an is not a stand alone manual."

The Quran is supposedly "the direct word from allah. the sacred text of Islam revered as the word of God, dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel, and accepted as the foundation of Islamic law, religion, culture, and politics."

"To find how a Muslim follows Islam you need to look at each Muslim as an individual."

I agree. That is why I spoke to over 2,500 'moderate' Muslims over the past 4 years. I found out how a Muslim follows Islam. They lied to me relentlessly. Like you, not ONE could speak against the horrible things Muhammed did. None could discuss morality rationally. All were much more interested in attacking me than attacking what Islamic terrorists were doing. That never happened. I'd say about 20 - 25% of them threatened to find me and my family and slaughter us. Many others just called me nasty names.

Muslims are pretty much alike when you start asking the right questions.
After accepting Islam 10 years ago I have had acts of violence done against me. I have received death threats, I have had to move twice after being told Muslims were not wanted and if I stayed my house would be burned down with me in it.

I still do not see any place in the Qur'an or Ahadith that I am commanded to harm anyone. as for Shariah treats woman with equality, does not force women to dress in accordance with their standard of modesty, does not forbid woman from driving or having an education and Job if they desire. that is Shariah, not the , not the Wahabbi'ism called Shariah and followed by some Muslims,

Tell Major Mariam al-Mansouri, of the UAE she is oppressed and not considered equal to a man must wear a Burkah and can not drive a car.

Female UAE pilot 'leads strikes' on jihadists

Tell any of these Muslim woman they are/were not treated equally to men

Woman Muslim Leaders throughout the Times

Every Islamic Nation has had at least one Female Ruler/leader. How many Female presidents have we had here in the USA?

How many Western religions have Female Clergy?

Female imams in China: Detail-rich report reveals a little-known Muslim community

Morocco: First 150 Women Imams To Start Preaching In April - Morocco.com Discussion Forum

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2008/11/germany-female-imams.html

Muslim women can be found in every Occupation, clerical role and political position Muslim men are found in.

While the Qur'an is the foundation and reason for Islam, it does not tell how to perform Islam. The primary message the Qur'an teaches is "There is only one God(swt) and only God(swt) is to be worshiped"

Which raises a question of "Can Atheists can go to heaven?" They do not worship a false god nor do they attribute partners, equals or progeny to God(swt). there are mixed opinions about this. However it is often agreed upon that if a person has never had the opportunity to learn about Islam they will only be judged for their deeds, not their belief or disbelief. It is almost unanimous that non-Muslim monotheists that never heard of Islam can go to heaven. As for if Atheists can there are mixed opinions.

Just one Opinion, while it indicates atheists can not enter heaven, it leaves the door open for other views.


Quote:
Best Answer: First of all, you are so lucky to have such a big heart....you cried coz you think non muslims will go to hell

Secondly, This question is answered in the Quran Allah says :

If you were never warned or taught about Islam clearly Allah would have a special test for you, because he is the most just.

Imam al-ghazali (famous Muslim scholar) stated that if a non-muslim received a distorted view of Islam in his or her lifetime, he or she would not be accountable because the pure pristine message has not been presented. But if you know the truth of Islam and reject it. Than Allah knows best.

Here the questions is dealt with in details:


If a person does not get reached by the Qur'an or the da`wah there is a difference of opinion on him.

The scholars say that if he believes in One God (because you can find that out just by your own thinking) and he dies before he hears the message of Muhammad then he is either tested on the Day of Judgement (he will be told to enter the fire and if he obeys Allah he will find it cold and goto Jannah, and if he disobeys then he will be cast into it - there are weak hadith on this) or he could be the servants in Jannah, or he could enter Jannah, or he could be entered into hellfire some state, and some state that he will be put on a place called al-`Araf between heaven and hell.

There is much disagreement on what will happen to these people, such as the children of the kuffar who die young.

The position that they will not be punished is very strong because of the words of Allah the meaning of which is "We do not punish until we send a Messenger." Meaning if one did not reject the Prophet then he is not punished as long as he believes in One God.

Now as for those who are reached by a distorted message of the da`wah - the scholars say that if they hear lies about Islam so that they believe it is rationally impossible to be the truth then they are excused until they learn the truth about Islam so that the definite possibility of the truth results.

This is because if you heard "Islam is a religion which worships the moon" and rejected this - you are not rejecting Islam you are rejecting the lies about Islam.

As long as these people are conceptual monotheists (meaning they believe in One God if asked who created the heavens and the earth) and reached with a distorted message or were not reached by the message then their case is with Allah and he knows best what will happen to them.

The Jews and Christians count as conceptual monotheists but not strict monotheists (like the tawheed of Islam) yet the Romans or the Zorastarians count as strict polytheists.

The matter gets detailed and there are many books on this.

In the end Allah knows best about those people.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...5194907AAj5wlu


My own opinion is since we do not know who will go to Hell we can not know with certainty who will not enter Heaven.
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Old 08-28-2015, 02:45 PM
 
204 posts, read 109,328 times
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my dear brother
- Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion
Do not do more of your energy
In anything

The original
Holy Qur'an and the Hadith
See inside them well
Your life will completely upright
Honesty - maintaining secretariats - high morals - help others - away from adultery - murder - drinking alcohol - gambling - treason - honoring one's parents - kinship - the right of the neighbor - and so on .....
This is Islam

Muslim life always
Tied about the Qur'an Quran and Hadith
This constitution for life

Separation between religion and life, something is wrong
This is already happening in other religions

So
Society is going in the way of deviation
Adultery - murder - robbery - drinking alcohol - international attacks - family disintegration ......

In your point of view

Why is this happening?

This is the result away from the teachings of God and the prophets and messengers

Narrated 'Ubada Ibn-As−Samit: who took part in the battle of Badr and was a Naqib (a person heading a group of six persons), on the night of Al−`Aqaba pledge: Allah's Apostle said while a group of his companions were around him, " Swear allegiance to me for: 1- Not to join anything in worship along with Allah. 2- Not to steal. 3- Not to commit illegal sexual intercourse. 4- Not to kill your children. 5- Not to accuse an innocent person (to spread such an accusation among people). 6- Not to be disobedient (when ordered) to do good deed ." The Prophet added: " Whoever among you fulfills his pledge will be rewarded by Allah. And whoever indulges in any one of them (except the ascription of partners to Allah) and gets the punishment in this world, that punishment will be an expiation for that sin. And if one indulges in any of them, and Allah conceals his sin, it is up to Him to forgive or punish him (in the Hereafter) ." 'Ubada bin As−Samit added: "So we swore allegiance for these." (points to Allah's Apostle

Sahih al-Bukhary, The Book of Faith, Hadith Number:18, Narrated by: Obada Ibnus-Samit

so
Islam came with mercy for all creation through the beauty of the islamic legislation which establishes justice, fairness and advocate, the grounds for security and stability in communities. Allah The Most High says in the Holy Quran :
" But seek, through that which Allah has given you, the home of the Hereafter; and [yet], do not forget your share of the world. And do good as Allah has done good to you. And desire not corruption in the land, Allah does not like corrupters." [Al-Qasas: 77].
In this Ayah Allah The Most High, orders His slaves to seek the blessing given from Allah, but do not forget their share of the world, and His also orders to good deed, but forbids to corrupt or do destruction, because it can cause instability in life.
In another Ayah Allah The Most High, says :
" Indeed, Allah orders justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded." [An-Nahl: 90].
Immorality includes; every greater sin likes shirk, killing another illegally, sexual act without married, looting, arrogant, humiliate to the others. Bad conduct includes every sin and wickedness related to the rights of Allah. Oppression includes every act oppresses to the life being, to the soul, to the property and their honors.

Those Ayahs tell us that Islam is full of Mercy and far from oppression. Let us take a look on sunnah as a second basic rule after Quran. From Abu Hurairah May Allah pleased him, The Prophet May Peace be upon him said :

"Whomsoever not to love another, thus will not be loved".[reported by Bukhari].
allah guided you



the great Islam gave the woman her honorable value, all the Laws of in the world will not reach this high level

prophet Mohammad said:

1 - Women are the twin halves of men.
2 - The world and all things in it are valuable; but the most valuable thing in the world is a virtuous woman.
3 - The best women are the virtuous; they are the most affectionate to infants, and the most careful of their husband's property.
4 - When a woman performeth the five times of prayer, and fasteth the month of Ramadan, and is chaste, and is not disobedient to her husband, then tell her to enter Paradise by whichever door she liketh.
5 - Verily a great number of women are assembled near my family, complaining of their hubands; and those men who ill-treat their wives do not behave well. He is not of my way who teacheth a woman to stray.
6 - Asma, daughter of Yazid, said, "Victuals were brought to Muhammad, and he put them before some of us women who were present, and said, 'Eat ye.' But notwithstanding we were hungry we said, 'We have no inclination.' Muhammad said, 'O woman! Do not mix hunger with lies.' "
7 - Whoever doeth good to girls, it will be a curtain to him from hell-fire.
8 - Whoever befriendeth two girls till they come of age, will be in the next world along with me, like my two fingers joining each other.
9 - Whoever befriendeth three daughters, or three sisters, and teacheth them manners, and is affectionate to them, till they come of age, may God apportion Paradise for him.
10 - Whoever hath a daughter, and doth not bury her alive or scold her, or prefer his male children to her, may God bring him into Paradise.
11 - Shall I not point out to you the best of virtues? It is your doing good to your daughter when she is returned to you having been divorced by her husband.
12 - God enjoins you to treat women well, for they are your mothers, daughters, aunts.
13 - Do not prevent your women from coming to the mosque.
14 - The believers who show the most perfect faith are those who have the best disposition and the best of you are those who are best to their wives


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9ORuDtkAQY
\

مناظرة بين ملحد والقران تنتهي بإسلام جيفري لانج | مترجم

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpVa34Tj4rE
يوسف وجدت فى القران حل لكل مشكلة

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i2jJw1GbHE
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Old 08-28-2015, 03:10 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,395 times
Reputation: 435
Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion .... for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods!

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes!

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... Wipe the infidels (non-Muslims) out to the last!

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" - Aisha, Muhammed's 9 year old child bride and sex toy

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... if you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them.

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... "The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... two singing-girls Fartana and her friend who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he ordered that they should be killed…” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 819)

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... Mu’awwidh passed Abu Jahl as he lay there helpless and smote him until he left him at his last gasp. Another Muslim named Abdullah then came by and put his foot on Abu Jahl’s neck and taunted him before decapitating him: Then I cut off his head and brought it to the apostle saying, “This is the head of the enemy of Allah, Abu Jahl.”… I threw his head before the apostle and he gave thanks to Allah. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 451)

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... “When the apostle ordered him to be killed, Uqba said, “But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?” [Muhammad’s reply] “Hell.” The man was put to death. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 458)

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... Narrated Abdur Rahman ibn Azhar: “I saw the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) …a man who had drunk wine was brought (before him) and he ordered them (to beat him). So they beat him with what they had in their hands. Some struck him with whips, some with sticks and some with sandals. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) threw some dust on his face.” (Abu Dawud 38:4474)

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... They were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died. (Sahih Muslim 4131 -this account is also confirmed by at least three other narrations).

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... When he [Muhammad] asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr bin al-Awwam, “Torture him until you extract what he has.” So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad bin Maslama and he struck off his head.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 764) (then muhammed raped his wife.)

Islam is a religion of the utmost ease and compassion ... [Muhammad] said, “Woe to you, Abu Sufyan, isn’t it time that you recognize that I am Allah’s apostle?” He (Abu Sufyan) answered, “As to that I still have some doubt.” I (the narrator) said to him, “Submit and testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the apostle of Allah before you lose your head,” so he did so. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 814)

I could go on all day. This is a tiny sample.
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Old 08-28-2015, 03:19 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 754,395 times
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1 - Women are the twin halves of men.

The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:
. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . .

The Quran in Sura 4:11 says:
The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . .

The Prophet said, 'Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, 'Yes.' He said, 'This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.' (Bukhari)
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Old 08-30-2015, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,308,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Have you ever served in the military? there are some very horrific rules and violation of such will result in quite serious punishment"

You mean rules like not betraying your country? Again, you are unable to distinguish between good and evil....or identify that INITIATION of force is evil. The man who murders his fellow service members, like the US Muslim who killed fellow soldiers at Ft Hood, INITIATED force and deserves punishment. It's called justice.

The man who rapes is initiating force. Rape is not done in self defense. If a person breaks into your house and starts beating your wife and you shoot him...who is evil? You for protecting your wife? Can't you see the difference?

The same with a military. The proper purpose is to PROTECT citizens from invasion and RETALIATE and deal with threats. NOT to initiate force. Let me be clear here: No man.....or group or society or government......has the right to assume the role of a criminal and initiate the use of physical compulsion against any man. Men have the right to use physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use.

"As for your life belongs to you, the reality is it belongs to the social structure you choose to live in."

I choose to live in a country where I am afforded a high level of freedom. Muslims (and others) are trying to destroy that freedom. I am still living pretty darn free. And what you will not understand is that because I support the principle of individual rights and that we all own our own lives, Muslims may eventually force Shariah Law on this world, but in principle I will still own my life ... Islam never will. I do not submit. Want to slaughter me for that and see me roast in your imagined hellfire, fine. You can't force my mind.

"As for myself I have found that Islam gives me thgreatest level of free choice and allows, rather obligates, me to evaluate all choices by myself and verify the outcome before acting."

You are welcomed to hold that illusion. In fact, move to the middle east where you can experience Shariah Law's freedom in full.

What if this country decided that wicca is the only true religion and Wiccans started raping and slaughtering Muslims and bombing mosques and demanding Muslims convert to Wicca? What if Wiccans started beating up Muslims and rioting in Muslim countries and forcing Wicca laws down your throat and making you pay a Wicca tax and were taking over neighborhoods in Muslim countries and forcing Muslims out. Would you like that? This is what Muslims are doing.

"Islam does not command us to harm anyone."

Sorry, I've read the Quran and hadiths.

"You need to look at Islam in a manner you look at Christianity. Christianity has the OT, The NT and Church Canons."

I am living in a country that is mostly Christian. I am a woman and an atheist and I do not hide that I am an atheist. I can wear what I want and say what I want, although Muslims tried to slaughter a friend of mine recently who drew a cartoon. I have all the rights that a man does. No Christians bother me...they don't riot or fly planes into buildings or destroy historic landmarks. They don't tell me I'm going to hell if I don't convert. Although they mostly run the government, the 10 commandments are NOT the law here. It's secular and individual rights are still protected to a large degree. (THAT is why you feel free.) My husband does not treat me as someone he can beat and hide in the house unless I look like a garbage bag. The worst thing I suffer from Christians is an abundance of joy at Christmas.

"Islam consists of many facets and the Qur'an is not a stand alone manual."

The Quran is supposedly "the direct word from allah. the sacred text of Islam revered as the word of God, dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel, and accepted as the foundation of Islamic law, religion, culture, and politics."

"To find how a Muslim follows Islam you need to look at each Muslim as an individual."

I agree. That is why I spoke to over 2,500 'moderate' Muslims over the past 4 years. I found out how a Muslim follows Islam. They lied to me relentlessly. Like you, not ONE could speak against the horrible things Muhammed did. None could discuss morality rationally. All were much more interested in attacking me than attacking what Islamic terrorists were doing. That never happened. I'd say about 20 - 25% of them threatened to find me and my family and slaughter us. Many others just called me nasty names.

Muslims are pretty much alike when you start asking the right questions.
Regarding this part

[quote][You mean rules like not betraying your country? Again, you are unable to distinguish between good and evil....or identify that INITIATION of force is evil. The man who murders his fellow service members, like the US Muslim who killed fellow soldiers at Ft Hood, INITIATED force and deserves punishment. It's called justice.
/QUOTE]

I mean like when, under orders, I dropped napalm on villages that were suspected of having Viet-Cong and burning up every man, woman and child that lived in the village.
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Old 08-30-2015, 11:52 AM
 
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"I mean like when, under orders, I dropped napalm on villages that were suspected of having Viet-Cong and burning up every man, woman and child that lived in the village."

You have to apply the principle of initiation of force. Did the US government initiate force against Vietnam? Was force initiated against you? I think our government was wrong in this instance, but I don't know as much as I need to about Vietnam to give a thoughtful answer. But you need to address the (moral) principles.

AGAIN: The man who murders his fellow service members, like the US Muslim who killed fellow soldiers at Ft Hood, INITIATED force and deserves punishment.
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"I mean like when, under orders, I dropped napalm on villages that were suspected of having Viet-Cong and burning up every man, woman and child that lived in the village."

You have to apply the principle of initiation of force. Did the US government initiate force against Vietnam? Was force initiated against you? I think our government was wrong in this instance, but I don't know as much as I need to about Vietnam to give a thoughtful answer. But you need to address the (moral) principles.

AGAIN: The man who murders his fellow service members, like the US Muslim who killed fellow soldiers at Ft Hood, INITIATED force and deserves punishment.
Oddly not long after Maj Hassan committed his atrocity, a non-Muslim did virtually the same thing, yet the media made no issue of it.

Quote:
Authorities have identified the man who opened fire at Fort Hood in Texas on Wednesday, killing three people before committing suicide, as Specialist Ivan Lopez.

Sixteen more people were injured Wednesday when he opened fire at Fort Hood, the sprawling Army post in Texas still on edge after a mass shooting there left 13 dead in 2009, officials said.

The gunman also died. He was engaged by military police before he fatally shot himself in the head, said the Army post's commander, Lt. Gen. Mark A. Milley.

The suspect, a soldier who had served in Iraq, "had behavioral health and mental health" issues, Milley told reporters late Wednesday.

4 dead, including shooter, at Fort Hood - CNN.com
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