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Old 05-24-2015, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Might be a good place to mention 2 very amazing Muslim women of today.

The top Muslim combat Pilot, possibly one the Best Combat Pilot in the world. Major Mariam al-Mansouri


Mariam al-Mansouri on becoming UAE's first female fighter pilot - video | World news | The Guardian

UAE's 1st female fighter pilot led strike against ISIS - CNN.com



A modern day Islamic scholar Dr. Azizah al-Hibri

Dr. Azizah al-Hibri, Esq. « Karamah

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Old 05-25-2015, 10:26 PM
 
4,412 posts, read 1,640,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfield View Post
I have no interest in the details of how these savages justify themselves.

.
But you would surely believe what Fox news tells you; however, you would conveniently ignore it when vice president of Iran states that ISIS is the creation of an intelligence agency to wreck havoc in the middle east - and ISIS has nothing to do with Islam no matter how vigorously they claim to be representatives of the religion.
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:01 AM
 
Location: South Minneapolis
4,761 posts, read 5,432,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
But you would surely believe what Fox news tells you; however, you would conveniently ignore it when vice president of Iran states that ISIS is the creation of an intelligence agency to wreck havoc in the middle east - and ISIS has nothing to do with Islam no matter how vigorously they claim to be representatives of the religion.
Ah, you have played your Fox News boogeyman card very early in the game. Already you have run out of any substantial argument?

Your efforts to delegitimize ISIS as a voice if Islam would seem to run contrary to the opinion of many, many Muslims, 81% of whom voiced support for ISIS in a recent poll on aljazeera.net. The poll, which asked in Arabic, “Do you support the organizing victories of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS)?” has generated over 38,000 responses thus far, with only 19% of respondents voting “NO” to supporting ISIS.

The truth is there is a sick strain of Islam and it has a significant number of followers.
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfield View Post
Ah, you have played your Fox News boogeyman card very early in the game. Already you have run out of any substantial argument?

Your efforts to delegitimize ISIS as a voice if Islam would seem to run contrary to the opinion of many, many Muslims, 81% of whom voiced support for ISIS in a recnte poll on aljazeera.net. The poll, which asked in Arabic, “Do you support the organizing victories of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS)?” has generated over 38,000 responses thus far, with only 19% of respondents voting “NO” to supporting ISIS.

The truth is there is a sick strain of Islam and it has a significant number of followers.
No group represents any one except them self even if they consider them self a sub group of a larger group. ISIS (aka IS aka ISIL) represents them self only.

they have and continue to show them self to be the enmy of most people who wear the name of Muslim.

When and where was the poll taken?


I assume you are refering to this poll

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...islamic-state/


From that report read down a bit further



Quote:
The network also faces multiple accusations that it reports with a strong bias in favor of Sunni Islamist groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood, which is designated as a terrorist group in many countries. In 2013, dozens of its Egypt bureau staff members resigned in protest of the network’s “biased coverage” in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood. More recently, In mid-May, a former Al Jazeera English journalist accused his former employer of being an arm of the foreign policy of Qatar. He also described the network as being dedicated to the interests of the Muslim Brotherhood, according to legal testimony.

Another recent investigation found that the NSA had labeled Al Jazeera’s Islamabad bureau chief as an Al Qaeda terrorist and member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Reading that article it claims to have generated 38,000 resonses------from 40,000,0000 viewrs,

Very few Muslims can read, write and speak Arabic. While most Muslims can rean Qur'anic Arabic, Qur'anic Arabic is not a vernacular language and impossible to use in conversation. No one has ever been able to write an original sentece in Qur'anic Arabic.
Very few Muslims are Arab only about 10-15% Also not all Arabs are Muslim.

What that Poll shows is about 38.000 people from Saudi and Egypt responded to the poll and 81% of them supported ISIS.

This is a better indication of how much Saudi supports ISIS

ISIS says it bombed Saudi mosque; 21 reported dead


Saudi Arabia mosque bombing: ISIS claims responsibility - CNN.com

Saudi king vows to punish those behind ISIS-claimed mosque attack

Saudi king vows to punish those behind ISIS-claimed mosque attack | Fox News
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:27 PM
 
Location: South Minneapolis
4,761 posts, read 5,432,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
No group represents any one except them self even if they consider them self a sub group of a larger group. ISIS (aka IS aka ISIL) represents them self only.

they have and continue to show them self to be the enmy of most people who wear the name of Muslim.

When and where was the poll taken?


I assume you are refering to this poll

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...islamic-state/


From that report read down a bit further





Reading that article it claims to have generated 38,000 resonses------from 40,000,0000 viewrs,

Very few Muslims can read, write and speak Arabic. While most Muslims can rean Qur'anic Arabic, Qur'anic Arabic is not a vernacular language and impossible to use in conversation. No one has ever been able to write an original sentece in Qur'anic Arabic.
Very few Muslims are Arab only about 10-15% Also not all Arabs are Muslim.

What that Poll shows is about 38.000 people from Saudi and Egypt responded to the poll and 81% of them supported ISIS.

This is a better indication of how much Saudi supports ISIS

ISIS says it bombed Saudi mosque; 21 reported dead


Saudi Arabia mosque bombing: ISIS claims responsibility - CNN.com

Saudi king vows to punish those behind ISIS-claimed mosque attack

Saudi king vows to punish those behind ISIS-claimed mosque attack | Fox News
Woodrow, You are always telling us about how Islam has no leadership, but in post 25, you link to quotes from many Muslim leaders who condemn Islam. It feels like you say there are no leaders when it suits you.

That said, I recognize that any self selecting poll is statistically invalid, and I sure that what you say about the respondents being Saudi and Egyptian is correct. Still, that 81% of those taking the poll say they support ISIS in this way is disturbing. Could it not be that the Saudi and Egyptian governments feel one way on the issue while the man on the street feels another way ?

Your position would be more credible for me if you just acknowledged that there is a strain of Islam that supports war on the west and treats women like crap. We see it. We know it. To say oh they're not really Muslims when that it what motivates them is just not believable .
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfield View Post
Woodrow, You are always telling us about how Islam has no leadership, but in post 25, you link to quotes from many Muslim leaders who condemn Islam. It feels like you say there are no leaders when it suits you.

That said, I recognize that any self selecting poll is statistically invalid, and I sure that what you say about the respondents being Saudi and Egyptian is correct. Still, that 81% of those taking the poll say they support ISIS in this way is disturbing. Could it not be that the Saudi and Egyptian governments feel one way on the issue while the man on the street feels another way ?

Your position would be more credible for me if you just acknowledged that there is a strain of Islam that supports war on the west and treats women like crap. We see it. We know it. To say oh they're not really Muslims when that it what motivates them is just not believable .
Using the vernacular. I do not see them as religious leaders, but it is a label the media has given them



I do not deny there are people that call them self Muslim and support IsIS are violent and treat women like crap. I do not find any justification in the Qur'an, Ahadith any Madhab or Sunnah for them to do so.

Now to condemn a specific group it is difficult. With the excetion of Boko Haram and ISIS (Both of which are condemned by Muslims world wide) it is difficult to point to to any centralized form of Taliban or Al-Qaida. They seem to be generic labels for any terrorist that claim to be Muslim

As for who is a True Muslim---We do not know who is a Muslim We only can see how each person practices Islam. There are people that practice something that seems to be very alien to many of us.

What I call islam does differ from what someone else calls Islam.

Some of the groups that call themself Muslim

Ahmadyya

Shi'ite

Sufi

Sunni

Wahabbi

NOI

IS

There are more along with sub groups. They are quite different from each other, possibly as different as Christians are from Jews.

Then You have Groups that seem to be offshoots of Islam and are often mistaken as being Muslims

Druze

Yazidi

Baha'i

Sikh

My concept of Islam is that which follows the Western Hanafi version of Sunni.

I used Western Hanafi deliberately, there is no actual group named Western Hanafi however hanafi does differ from country to country and even from locality to locality. The Authority for Jurisprudence in the Hanafi madhab is:
Qur.an
Sunnah
Consensus of Scholars
Local Needs
Local Tradition

The only thing all Muslims have in common is they state they Believe there is only one God(swt) and Muhammad(SAWS) is the Prophet of Allaah(swt)

Most agree there are 5 pillars of faith that each Muslim must do

1. Say the Shahada out loud at least once
2. Establish daily prayers
3. Give to Charity
3. Fast during Ramadan
5. Perform Hajj at least once-if physically and financially able.

Some Shi'ite add a sixth Pillar

Quote:
Controversy over Sixth Pillar of Islam

Most Sunni Muslims believe there are precisely five Pillars of Islam, since Sunni leaders have taught that there are only five major pillars of the faith. Traditionalists say that no sixth pillar should be added, because changing the pillars would be altering the religion and its beliefs, and so one who believes that there is a sixth is committing a sin. Thus, Sunnis believe that a "six pillar of faith" is outside the folds of mainstream Islam. The sixth pillar of Islam is not included in the Sunni way of life.
However the Shia faith believe the sixth pillar is khums, which means that believers have to pay 1:5 of your wealth to the Sayyids.
Sixth Pillar of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps you can see the difficulty there is for one Muslim to correct another Muslim

For a non-member of ISIS to correct ISIS beliefs is sort of like a Mormon correcting Catholic. beliefs.
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:55 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 769,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfield View Post
Woodrow, You are always telling us about how Islam has no leadership, but in post 25, you link to quotes from many Muslim leaders who condemn Islam. It feels like you say there are no leaders when it suits you.

That said, I recognize that any self selecting poll is statistically invalid, and I sure that what you say about the respondents being Saudi and Egyptian is correct. Still, that 81% of those taking the poll say they support ISIS in this way is disturbing. Could it not be that the Saudi and Egyptian governments feel one way on the issue while the man on the street feels another way ?

Your position would be more credible for me if you just acknowledged that there is a strain of Islam that supports war on the west and treats women like crap. We see it. We know it. To say oh they're not really Muslims when that it what motivates them is just not believable .
We have scholars, Imam's, local community leaders, etc... But we have no formal leadership in Sunni Islam, such as a Pope or Dalai Lama. That's what Woodrow is stating.

Further we acknowledge that there are power hungry groups whom have significant *political* grievances that use our religion to recruit and to justify actions they want to commit. Note that the ISIS leadership in Iraq is primarily made up of ex-Saddam Baathists and in Libya the ISIS leadership is primarily ex-Gadaffi loyalists. If you understand Baathism and Gadaffi's "Jamahiriyah" system, you would clearly understand that these people were some of the most secular, anti-religious people in the Muslim world. For all intents and purposes they only wanted Muslims to be "cultural Muslims", akin to "Christmas-Easter" Christians. They've picked up the ISIS brand because they've realized that their old political ploy of Baathism isn't going to appeal to the masses any longer, so why not try the Islamist ploy?

Also note that their approach to Islam is *not* by asking the question, "What does God and his messenger say about a certain topic?", rather it is "We want to do this, how do we find something from the Quran and Sunnah to justify what we want?".

I hope that helps clear up our position.
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Old 05-31-2015, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Candy Kingdom
3,228 posts, read 2,852,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu Zainab View Post
Peace to one and all,
Some critics of Islam said that the rules of the faith do not allow you, women in Islam, to have public recognition and that as a result you remain nameless. This view is neither supported by history nor by Islamic religious precepts.

The question of dress [Hijab and long dress] is especially in need of clarification. The Qur'anic injunction to women on dress is mainly to protect them from men, who have 'disease in their hearts'. Protected by her own symbol of dignity (her dress), the women can feel free to take any role she wishes without the added burden of having constantly to look beautiful (often more artificial than natural). Nor is she allowed to succumb to the temptation of being used for the ornamental beautification of streets and offices.

Thus the unspoken message of the Muslim women dress is meant to say to the man: "Stop looking at my body. It is private. Look at my mind instead." This is what frustrates some men so much about the Islamic dress, complaining that it 'degrades' the women to a lower status than the man. This NOT so, their real complaint is that the Islamic dress deprives the LUSTFUL man of so much free entertainment.

To digress a bit, another related issue is that in some parts of the West today, gays and lesbians 'marriages' are considered [SUBHANALLAH!!] as indicators of freedom and rights. And we, Muslims, are demanded to recognize that... NEVER!! How can a Muslim respect gays and lesbians rights when the West does not identify for the Muslim, which of the 2 is female [in the lesbian marriage or in the gays marriage], so that we could give her her due rights?
Honestly, and most people think I am crazy when I say it (especially since a woman like myself reverted), I love the dress code. I've always been a modest person, even before I reverted, and it always made sense to me. I never liked men gawking at me and would rather have them know me rather than lusting over my physical being. I have always preferred modesty - partly from being taught by an old fashioned Italian grandmother, but modesty for the most part has protected me.
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Old 05-31-2015, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,112,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu Zainab View Post
How can a Muslim respect gays and lesbians rights when the West does not identify for the Muslim, which of the 2 is female [in the lesbian marriage or in the gays marriage], so that we could give her her due rights?
We do not care what you respect.

In the United States, all we ask is that you follow our laws. You can believe and respect whatever you want.

If anyone wants to show a lack of respect for our culture by burning our flag or putting a crucifix in a bucket of urine, that's OK. if a person wants to burn a Quran, that's also OK.
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Old 05-31-2015, 11:33 AM
 
13,092 posts, read 13,685,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessxwrites89 View Post
modesty for the most part has protected me.
if a woman needs "protection" from the dangerous men around her....then maybe she needs to be around men who are not so dangerous? Men who don't abuse women, oppress women, blame women for the very violence they inflict, instead of taking responsibility for their own violent deviant brutal tyrannic behavior?

My mama taught me honey if you are afraid of a man, you hightail it away from him as fast as you can. Coz he dangerous, he gonna hurt you, and he gonna blame you for it when he does. And if he say God tell him to do it, well that man ain't God, coz God want you safe you his precious baby, so that man be blaspheming also.

good advice that has served me well

when any man of any stripe starts saying a woman has to look a certain way or dress a certain way or else it might cause men to hurt me......he is, as the opening post person so clearly states and he is a Muslim man speaking, bear that in mind, "the Quaranic injunction to women on dress is mainly to protect them from men, who have 'disease in their hearts'."

how about the dangerous men working on their disease instead of being dangerous to the women around them?

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-31-2015 at 11:41 AM..
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