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Old 06-03-2015, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
You're correct we don't need it. However the Quran's explicit agreement with the Big Bang theory, evolution and the embryological stages of human development are quite amazing.
Out of curiosity, where in Qur'an does it talk about embryology? The reference I have seen is from Hadditha and mentions that sex is determined at a relatively late stage. This would be consistent with microscopic examination (which I believe Eastern science had long before Western science rediscovered it) of fetal development, but we know from genetics that sex is determined at conception. I think your "data" will be found to be on the same level when examined in depth.
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Old 06-03-2015, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
What Purpose would a non-Muslim have to go to either Mecca or Medina? Outside of curiosity.
Besides curiosity? None.

But as an atheist, I've attended mass at Notre Dame, Cathedral of Saint Bavo, a Islam service in Istanbul, along with services in Sevilla, Madrid, Brussels and Dublin.

I just find it interesting, none the less
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Old 06-03-2015, 02:43 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 770,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Out of curiosity, where in Qur'an does it talk about embryology? The reference I have seen is from Hadditha and mentions that sex is determined at a relatively late stage. This would be consistent with microscopic examination (which I believe Eastern science had long before Western science rediscovered it) of fetal development, but we know from genetics that sex is determined at conception. I think your "data" will be found to be on the same level when examined in depth.
No problem. Here's a published article which explains the issue in detail:

Human Embryology and the Holy Quran: An Overview
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Old 06-03-2015, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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That reference does not cover what I mentioned, so I did a quick search, and the passage I was talking about is this: "Imam Muslim narrates from Hudhayfa that the Prophet MHMD said:

The sperm-and-ovum drop falls into the uterus [and remains] for forty nights, after which the angel in charge of fashioning it descends upon it and says, "Lord! Male or female?" Then Allah makes it male or female.

Hadiths On The Formation Of Human Life
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caverunner17 View Post
Besides curiosity? None.

But as an atheist, I've attended mass at Notre Dame, Cathedral of Saint Bavo, a Islam service in Istanbul, along with services in Sevilla, Madrid, Brussels and Dublin.

I just find it interesting, none the less
It is difficult to comprehend what a Non_Muslim would find of Interest in Mecca or Medinah. They are not exactly Tourist attractions and have very little to offer A non-Muslim.

As far as size goes, they are not very large in area. Mevva is only 10 square miles and Medinah is is 11.78 Square Miles. To put it in perspective The City of Jerusalem is currently 49 square Miles, but historically and for much of it's history iw as 1/3 of one square mile the ofirinal part is reffered to as the Old City

It is 509 Km (319 miles) from Meccas to Medinah. Both cities are very isolated and surrounded by many miles of desert.
Mecca has a permanent population of 2 million and averages 15 Million visitors per year, many during the 5 days of Hajj and currently that is about yhe max that can be accomodated. It would be impossible to allow any non-Muslim visitors without denying access to Muslims waiting to get into Mecca.
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:53 AM
 
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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.


This article does not say specifically, that Christians, look forward to making the pilgrimage to Mecca, however, the suggestion, seems to be in there hiding. Or, am I imagining it?


Hajj nearing end; call to prayer for Christians



Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While there is some justification to reopen Makkah and Madinat Rasul Allah for non-Muslims and allow them to go on Ummrah, For Hajj there are many obstacles that make it difficult.

During the 5 Days of Hajj there already is a long waiting period and even so most Muslims will never be able to make Hajj. Currently there is only enough room for about 2 million people during Hajj. At that rate it would take over 900 years for every Muslim living today to make the Hajj.

Every Non-Muslim who does to Hajj is taking a space a Muslim could have used.

Keep in mind Hajj is only from the 8-12th days of the month of Hajj.


Wassalaam. devotee
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Old 06-04-2015, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.


This article does not say specifically, that Christians, look forward to making the pilgrimage to Mecca, however, the suggestion, seems to be in there hiding. Or, am I imagining it?


Hajj nearing end; call to prayer for Christians







Wassalaam. devotee
Bismillah ir Rahman ir Raheem

If you look closely at that site. It is a Christians site. If you go to the MNN link on the page you will find

Quote:
With your help, Mission Network News will continue being the voice of missions, the persecuted church, and Christians in hard-to-reach areas of the world. Together we can help fulfill the Great Commission in our lifetime.
The site is telling Apostates to not say they are Christians and to go to Hajj as Christian Missionaries.

Also from the link on the opening page

Quote:
Eid al-Adha involves a ritual sacrifice of a lamb, he adds. “They say the son was Ishmael and not Isaac, but they do know the story of Abraham going to offer his son, and at the last moment, God provides a lamb, and the son is saved.” That’s the connection point for believers, notes Nettleton, because , “That event points to Jesus Christ. The lamb was provided as a sacrifice. Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God. This is a great opportunity for Muslims to hear the gospel and to understand, ‘ohh, that makes sense now.'”
However, it’s unlikely that Christians would be able to get into Mecca, so who shares this connection? “We know of some Muslims who have come to Christ, but they haven’t widely publicized it, they haven’t changed their identity papers, specifically so they can go to Mecca. Mecca is a city that is closed to non-Muslims. These people can still get in, they can still be there and share the gospel during the season.”

The site is telling people how to be deceptive and get into Mecca to preach Christianity.
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Old 06-04-2015, 08:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
This article does not say specifically, that Christians, look forward to making the pilgrimage to Mecca, however, the suggestion, seems to be in there hiding. Or, am I imagining it?
As Woodrow pointed out, this is a group trying to evangelize by stealth. They are not coming out of devotion to God, or because Mecca is important to their faith, they want to come to try to get you to abandon yours.

I cannot speak for all Christians, there might be some older Christian traditions from the Arabian penninsula that do have some reverence for Mecca, but in general there is no religious significance to Mecca, the Kaaba, and or the ZamZam well for Christians. Some would even go so far as to shun them as places of evil, the birth place of a demonically inspired false religion. It just really has no place in their religion, just sa it is not meaningful to Buddhists, Hindus, or Jews...

-NoCapo
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Old 06-04-2015, 08:34 AM
 
352 posts, read 308,749 times
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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You (all).

Yes, I can see that they're not going about it correctly. And the manner they're pursuing is quite dangerous, too.


Quote:
“We know of some Muslims who have come to Christ, but they haven’t widely publicized it, they haven’t changed their identity papers, specifically so they can go to Mecca. Mecca is a city that is closed to non-Muslims. These people can still get in, they can still be there and share the gospel during the season.”


Wassalaam. devotee.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,591 posts, read 17,670,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
Please tell me you don't buy this! This is junk science and conspiracy theories.The idea that the magnetic field is not existant around Mecca, that gravity affects one less in Mecca, and that there is some shortwave radio signal of infinite wavelength are just absurd. (An absolute contradiction in terms. Shortwave is from 1.6 to 30 MHz, generally speaking, and there are several radio bands with longer wavelength. Furthermore, a signal of infinite wavelength is just a dc component, and as such cannot carry information or propagate at all!)

Add to the bogus science that the supposed proof is data from NASA that has "mysteriously" disappeared, and you have a whole lot of mumbo jumbo that makes your religion appear less true, not more. Please don't just accept it because someone from your faith who appears smart is making these claims. Your faith and your god do not need dodgy, misused science, conspiracy theories, and outright disregard for the truth, do they? Aren't your beliefs deeper than that?

-NoCapo
All part of the suspension of disbelief that is inherent in all religions. If you can accept the concept of a supernatural sky daddy, accepting that the magnetic field doesn't exist in a "holy" region shouldn't be a leap.
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