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Old 05-28-2015, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
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I understand the basic difference in that one group believes Muhammad's father-in-law should have been the next leader of Islam, and another believed his brother-in-law should have. But, beyond, this, why is it a big deal? Why the nearly 2000 year animosity? The division, the hatred, the murder that has taken place over this little difference? Don't get me wrong, I recognize that other religions have had problems over similar squabbles (the "problems" in North Ireland come to mind) but for the most part they are now a thing of the past. Protestants, Catholics and Baptists advertise and compete for the same customers, but rarely go around cutting each other's heads off. Why so much bloodshed between Suni and Shia Islam?
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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In the simplist of terms it is all about centuries long animosity between Iranians ( an Aryan people) and Arabs (a Semitic people)

The majority of the world's Shi'ite live in Iran, Iraq and nearby Nations most are Iranian or Iran supporters. In the same region nearly all Sunni are Arab

Nearly all Shi'ite/ Sunni Violence occurs in this region and it all comes down to very ancient conflicts between Arabs and Iranians.
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Dangling from a mooses antlers
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Basically what Woodrow is saying is that both groups want to kill each other because they both think they are right and the other is wrong. That's the basic concept of Islam. If you don't believe in it they'd really like to kill you as Islam seeks blind obedience and world domination.
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
Basically what Woodrow is saying is that both groups want to kill each other because they both think they are right and the other is wrong. That's the basic concept of Islam. If you don't believe in it they'd really like to kill you as Islam seeks blind obedience and world domination.
Not quite basically what I am saying is Iranians and Arabs do not get along; Has notheing to do with Shi'ite/Sunni

, Outside of the Mideast The few Shi'ite that do not live in the Mideast get along fine with their Sunni Neighbors.

the largest Shi'ite population outside the Mideast is in Dearborn Michigan and the Surrounding area. The Largest Mosque in the USA is the Shi'ite Mosque in Dearborn. The Sunni population is about the same in the region, they both get along fine.

Austin Texas has a Good sized Shi'ite population and there are no Shi'ite/ Sunni issues. as a Sunni I rcognize Shi'ite as being Muslim. (My oldest Daughter is Shi'ite) I am not aware of any Sunni/Shi'ite conflicts here in the USA.

Shi'ite do attend Hajj in Mecca with the majority Sunni

While Shi'ite are the second largest group of Muslims they only account for 10% of the world's Muslims at the Most and virtually all of them Live in Pakistan, India Iran and Iraq. (Regions that at one time formed Persia.)
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Old 05-29-2015, 08:11 AM
 
1,666 posts, read 768,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
In the simplist of terms it is all about centuries long animosity between Iranians ( an Aryan people) and Arabs (a Semitic people)

The majority of the world's Shi'ite live in Iran, Iraq and nearby Nations most are Iranian or Iran supporters. In the same region nearly all Sunni are Arab

Nearly all Shi'ite/ Sunni Violence occurs in this region and it all comes down to very ancient conflicts between Arabs and Iranians.
This is absolutely correct. In the early Islamic period, there were actually very few followers of Shi'a thought and the Sunni thought dominated the political course for quite some time. The second Caliph of Islam, Omar, conquered Persia and while he was relatively peaceful and benevolent in his rule of Persia...he was still an Arab whom had conquered the Aryans.

Islam thereafter began to spread in Iran, and while they accepted Islam willingly, the Shi'a narrative was much more appealing as it barred Omar from being a rightful Caliph and viewed him as a hypocrite (the worst of the worst in Islam). This led to a strong schism between the Sunni and Shi'a in the region...with Shafi'i Sunnis still being the majority in Persia. However as part of this schism the Safavid Empire rose, which was a Shi'a dominated one...they had one terrible ruler whom forced the conversion of Sunnis to Shi'a in the region and barred Sunni practices and Sunni Imams from teaching or having mosques.

Now I hope from this you understand that this is *political* and *racial* in nature. What makes up "Islam" is the Quran and the saying/doings of the Prophet Muhammad (saw)...this schism happened well after the Prophet (saw) passed away and therefore is what we would call fitnah (tribulation). You won't find any reference to a "Sunni" or a "Shi'a" in the Quran or books of Hadeeth, none the less a command to kill or harm one another.

Fast forward to today and for the most part Shi'a and Sunni get along in most parts of the world. The common thought for centuries as that until someone says something that explicitly takes them out of Islam, than that individual is considered a Muslim, whether Shi'a or Sunni...and further that unless someone is definitively an *active enemy combatant* than their blood is forbidden for you to spill. There are some trouble makers whom have ignored this precedent and have decided to paint entire people with giantly broad strokes and view them as extensions of or as supporting enemy combatants regardless.
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
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Thank you for the response.
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Old 05-29-2015, 11:19 AM
 
4,411 posts, read 1,639,451 times
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I am 100% sure that Shia Sunni conflict is totally political based in the middle east. Corrupt political leaders pit both groups against each other for their own advantage.

Here in the U.S. Europe, and Australia - same Shia and same Sunnis live together in peace and harmony. There is no difference, no fighting and no hatred or malice towards each other. Everyone gets along with everyone, mosques are shared, kids play together, families join in every good cause regardless of being shia or sunny - why because? there is no political forces here that will put both groups against each other.
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Old 05-29-2015, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Candy Kingdom
3,228 posts, read 2,852,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
This is absolutely correct. In the early Islamic period, there were actually very few followers of Shi'a thought and the Sunni thought dominated the political course for quite some time. The second Caliph of Islam, Omar, conquered Persia and while he was relatively peaceful and benevolent in his rule of Persia...he was still an Arab whom had conquered the Aryans.

Islam thereafter began to spread in Iran, and while they accepted Islam willingly, the Shi'a narrative was much more appealing as it barred Omar from being a rightful Caliph and viewed him as a hypocrite (the worst of the worst in Islam). This led to a strong schism between the Sunni and Shi'a in the region...with Shafi'i Sunnis still being the majority in Persia. However as part of this schism the Safavid Empire rose, which was a Shi'a dominated one...they had one terrible ruler whom forced the conversion of Sunnis to Shi'a in the region and barred Sunni practices and Sunni Imams from teaching or having mosques.

Now I hope from this you understand that this is *political* and *racial* in nature. What makes up "Islam" is the Quran and the saying/doings of the Prophet Muhammad (saw)...this schism happened well after the Prophet (saw) passed away and therefore is what we would call fitnah (tribulation). You won't find any reference to a "Sunni" or a "Shi'a" in the Quran or books of Hadeeth, none the less a command to kill or harm one another.

Fast forward to today and for the most part Shi'a and Sunni get along in most parts of the world. The common thought for centuries as that until someone says something that explicitly takes them out of Islam, than that individual is considered a Muslim, whether Shi'a or Sunni...and further that unless someone is definitively an *active enemy combatant* than their blood is forbidden for you to spill. There are some trouble makers whom have ignored this precedent and have decided to paint entire people with giantly broad strokes and view them as extensions of or as supporting enemy combatants regardless.
You and Woodrow are 100% correct. I wish you two could collaborate on writing a book because you both explain so well and simply. I think a book would help a lot of people understand at least somewhat.

I never really understood the differences until five years ago. It seems like it's just like other groups of people - old conflicts that are never resolved bubble and cause tension. However, like Woodrow said, outside of certain regions in the Middle East, there is no conflict - Dearborn, MI is an example.
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Old 05-29-2015, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
18,169 posts, read 8,195,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I am 100% sure that Shia Sunni conflict is totally political based in the middle east. Corrupt political leaders pit both groups against each other for their own advantage.

Here in the U.S. Europe, and Australia - same Shia and same Sunnis live together in peace and harmony. There is no difference, no fighting and no hatred or malice towards each other. Everyone gets along with everyone, mosques are shared, kids play together, families join in every good cause regardless of being shia or sunny - why because? there is no political forces here that will put both groups against each other.
Some self-selection may be involved as well. Seems likely to me (although I don't know of any data), that most muslim immigrants here are here in part because they are sick of the mayhem.
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Old 05-29-2015, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Some self-selection may be involved as well. Seems likely to me (although I don't know of any data), that most muslim immigrants here are here in part because they are sick of the mayhem.
That could be true for the recent immigrants but I doubt it is true for those whose families have been here for 3 or more generations.
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