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Old 07-03-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"While the Qur'an sets the reasons for Islam, the actual teaching of Islam was by Muhammad(swt)"

What does the Quran give as a reason for allowing slavery? And the mass rape of captive women?
No where does it advocate either.

You might have found something I am unaware of, but I can not think of anyplace the Qur'an gives a reason to allow slavery or rape. Slavery is discouraged and rape may be punished up to the death penalty.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:25 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 753,037 times
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"No where does it advocate either."

Explain this:

Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you except those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

Explain this:

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do coitus interruptus. A soul that which Allah has destined to exist will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)
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Old 07-04-2015, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"No where does it advocate either."

Explain this:

Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you except those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)
to begin with post the whole ayyat:

4:24 (Asad) And [forbidden to you are] all married women other than those whom you rightfully possess [through wedlock]: [26] this is God's ordinance, binding upon you. But lawful to you are all [women] beyond these, for you to seek out, offering them of your possessions, [27] taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication. And unto those with whom you desire to enjoy marriage, you shall give the dowers due to them; but you will incur no sin if, after [having agreed upon] this lawful due, you freely agree with one another upon anything [else]: [28] behold, God is indeed all-knowing, wise.

4:24 (Y. Ali) Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

4:24 (Picktall) And all married women (are forbidden unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise

2; 1-35 define some guides for a successful family life. Such as sexual relations are restricted to people that are married to each other Ayyats lay out the rules as to who one may marry , which is what 23-25 are defining. and pointing out the only married women we are permitted sex with are those we are married to .

Now here is a good example of why Ahadith are nearly always impossible for a person to understand, unless they have a background in the Study of Ahadith

Abu Dawud 2150
Abu Sa’id Al Khudri said “The Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of Apostle of Allaah (ﷺ) were reluctant to have relations with the female captives because of their pagan husbands. So, Allaah the exalted sent down the Qur’anic verse “And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hand posses.” This is to say that they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period.

There are quite a few things there that require understanding, one thing for starters based only on the Hadith we only know one fact: Abu Sa’id Al Khudri said this.

to go into depth one should seek out who he was, Did he personally hear this or was it passed onto him from others, what was the occasion. for starts. We need to know how Abu Sa’id Al Khudri came to this opinion.

Another thing to know is the significance of "This is to say that they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period."-- That has to do with the rules of divorce and remarriage. Woman is not considered divorced until after she has had 3 consecutive menstrual cycles. Not 3 months 3 actual cycles. In other words if she is pregmamt that will not happen until after birth of the child.
If rape is being approved why the concern about devorce and marriage?
Muslim 3433
Muslim :: Book 8 : Hadith 3433

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) sent a small army. The rest of the hadith is the same except this that he said: Except what your right hands possessout of them are lawful for you; and he did not mention" when their 'idda period comes to an end". This hadith has been reported on the authority of AbuSa'id (al-Khudri) (Allah be pleased with him) through another chain of transmitters and the words are: They took captives (women) on the day of Autas who had their husbands. They were afraid (to have sexual intercourse with them) when this verse was revealed:" And women already married except those whom you right hands posses"

This is the exact same Hadith Dawud put in his compilation. Most of Dawud comes directly from Bhukahri and Muslim.
When You read the ahadith you will find that in each one the compilations will contain some Ahadith copied from previous compilations.



Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Explain this:

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do coitus interruptus. A soul that which Allah has destined to exist will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)
Quote:
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 34 :: Hadith 432

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.
Abu Said al-Khudri asked Muhammad(saws) a question about coitus interruptus and Muhammad(saws) replied he disapproved ot it.

from this hadith we do not know if Muhammad(saws) addressed anything about the female captives. We only know what remains of what al-Khudri passed on.

That is the only thing we can asertain from this Hadith. For some reason al-Khudri was impressed by the fact Muhammad(saws) did not approve of Muslims practicing coitus-interruptus. Made a notation of it and the notation eventually became part of Bukhari's compilation.

I find it interesting that Bhukari filed this in book 3, volume 34 of his compilation as that contains Ahadith that address "Sales and Trade" perhaps he was expecting to find more that would address the sale of captives? Perhaps all he had was a fragment and expected to find more of what al-Khudri wrote---I can only guess as I do not know.

One needs to be cautious not to read too much into any Hadith. sometimes the only thing we know is that is what the narrator remembered and passed on to his friends and family.
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