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Old 07-25-2015, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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As a matter of fact, the Quran must be read in Chronological order.

Otherwise, why not?
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Old 07-25-2015, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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It is 114 individual books.

None is the percursor of another. The particulr order was revealed to to Muhammad(saws) for future generations. The order the Chronological order came about as a specific need at the moment.

There were at least 7 different groups of Arabs on the Arabian Penninsula at the time. Each with a different awareness of Islam. The Jews, Sabeeans and Christians having a very high awareness of Islam and each was performing Islam to the best of their ability.

The various Pagan and polytheistic religions had less knowledge of Allaah(swt) and required more preliminary teaching. but they were among the last to accept Islam.

We do know there were more than 3 versions of Christianity being practiced Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, probably Thomason and remnants of some heretical sects such as Colyridians, Ebionites and others.

The Jews were almost exclusively Banū Qurayẓa and lived in Medina.

The Chronological order is of no importance as each Surah is an Individual book.

Now the reason the particular order exists is best explained by some one more knowledgeable.

Quote:
Revelation Order of the Qur'an

The Qur'an was sometimes revealed to respond to various events and incidents. Sometimes it was revealed to support the Prophet (saws) who was faced with many questions, whether by Muslims or non-Muslims, and hardships. Other times was revealed for legislation and for putting rules to govern the social, economical, and political life of Muslims.

The first verses to be revealed, according to the most correct opinion of scholars, are the first five verses of Surat Al-`Alaq, which happens to be Chapter 96 of the 114 chapters of the Qur'an.

Order of Verses

Muslim scholars agree that the order of the verses in every chapter was done or commanded by the Prophet (saws) himself following the commands of Almighty Allah.

The Prophet (saws) once told his Companions after he had received a certain revelation that the arch-angel Gabriel had specified for him the particular order of verses (Ahmad).

There are also many incidents narrated in the books of Sunnah regarding the Prophet's (saws) recitation during prayer. The Companions used to pray every day behind the Prophet (saws) and he used to recite the Qur'an in the order given to him by Allah, and they used to learn and memorize from his recitation.

There have never been any incident in which any of the Companions reciting in any order that violated the order of the verses showed to us by the Prophet (saws).

Order of Surahs

As for the order of the surahs (chapters), the most accepted view is that it was also applied following an instruction given by Almighty Allah. It has been recorded that the Prophet (saws) reviewed the Qur'an with the arch-angel Gabriel 24 times all within his life.

Every year, he used to review it once during the month of Ramadan with Gabriel. During the final year of the Prophet's life, Gabriel revised the Qur'an twice with the Prophet (saws) as a way of confirming it. The Prophet (saws), in turn, used to follow this order in teaching his Companions and communicating the message to them.
Revelation Order of the Quran
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Old 07-25-2015, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
As a matter of fact, the Quran must be read in Chronological order.

Otherwise, why not?
I just found this which I was unaware of. Quite interesting in my opinion.

Quote:
1. Each Quranic surah has a dominant idea, called the axis of that surah, around which all the verses of that surah revolve. Thus no verse, or no group of verses, stands alone but has a direct relation with the axis of the surah and is part of the coherent scheme of the surah.

2. The surahs of the Quran exist in pairs, the two surahs of any pair being complementary to each other and, together constituting a unit. There are a few exceptions, however. The first surah, Fatihah, does not have a complement, because it is a kind of a preface to the whole of the Quran. All the other exceptions too are not exceptions in the real sense of the word since each one of them is an appendix to one or the other surah.

3. The 114 surahs of the Quran fall into seven groups. The first group comes to an end at surah 5, the second at surah 9, the third at surah 24, the fourth at surah 33, the fifth at surah 49, the sixth at surah 66, and the seventh at surah 114. Each group contains one or more Makkan surahs followed by one or more Madinan surahs of the same cast. Like individual surahs or each pair of surahs, each group has a central theme which runs through all its surahs, knitting them into a distinct body. In each group, the themes of the other groups also occur but as subsidiary themes.

4. Each group logically leads to the next, and thus all the groups become variations on the basic theme of the Quran, which is: 'Allah's call to man to adopt the right path'. - See more at: IslamiCity.com - Is the Quran an unstructured Book?


Correct me if I am wrong.

I am assuming you believe the Qur'an must be read in Chronological order because of the abrogated verses.

I see that is a misunderstanding of what abrogation of verses actually did.

They did not make any prior verses obsolete or invalid.

They did not abolish the "Peaceful Meccan" verses

Quote:
Controversy Over the Verse of the Sword


The so-called 'verse of the sword' is itself controversial amongst scholars. Let me raise a question here: who called it so? Neither Almighty Allah nor His Prophet ever called it so.


There are names of the chapters (surahs) of the Quran which were given by the Prophet. No one singled out certain verses and called them so unless reported authentically through hadiths. Moreover, there is no report to the effect that there is a verse called so.


Now, does not the claim that there is a verse of sword in the Quran serve the misconception raised by many Orientalists that Islam is a violent religion? A claim that runs against the name of Islam which is taken from the lexical root of 's-l-m', one of its various meanings being 'peace'.


Speaking more closely about the so-called verse of sword, we can simply say that even the scholars who claim that there is such a verse, they are not in agreement on allocating this verse.


Some of them say it is verse 5 in surah 9 (At-Tawbah). Some others say it is actually verse 36 of the same surah. A third group, however, says it is actually verse 29 while a fourth group of exegetes refers to verse 41 to be the verse of the sword.


A close look into these will show that what they are saying is mere speculation that cannot be taken for granted or solely accepted on their own without having enough evidence verifying them. The evidence we are asking for here are the authentic sayings of the Prophet.

The Verse of the Sword: The Final Word? - Qur'an & Scriptures - counsels - OnIslam.net
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Another reason the Qur'an can not be arrainged in Chronological order. The individual Surah were not always revealed as a single discourse especially the longer ones which took years to complete. Often several other complete ones were revealed in the time frame a longer one was being revealed. This is especially true of Surat 2 to 75. Many of them contain mucltiple discourses some revealed in Mecca and some in Medina. While within a Surah the discourses are in chronological order, it is impossible to select what would be the proper chronological location of a Surah. Do you go by when it was started, when it was finished or the average date the individual discourses within it were revealed?

Many of the Meccan Surah were completed in Medinah.

The most accurate way to understand the Qur'an is to treat each Surah as an individual book. and part of an anthology as described here: IslamiCity.com - Is the Quran an unstructured Book?
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Old 07-26-2015, 02:12 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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There must be a reason why the chapters in the Quran were arranged by compilers in the order they appeared in the conventional order since it was compiled and accepted as the standard till the present.

I believe as proposed by many, the Quran was compiled in the current order as an ideological book with religious background to unite and CONTROL the people of a vast conquered empire via the fear of God just as such strategy has been used by various leaders of nations.
Like Robin Hood, there may not be a real historical Muhammad but there was perhaps a General and his troops who managed to conquer many parcels of land within and without the Arabian peninsula.

The current order of the Quran is spearheaded by the fear of mortality and fear of God and based on a very chauvinistic and sense of arrogance. This is a strategy to control the masses and the next 8 chapters are martial, aggressive and imperialistic in nature.

The eschatological and soteriological elements are in bulk of the later chapters and activated from the background as checks and controls to ensure the masses are well-corralled, straightjacketed and subdued.

Since Muslims at present are so emotionally and psychologically conditioned to the existing order it is unlikely for any Muslims to look at it from a chronological order and other order to avoid their faith being shaken.


Why the Quran is Preferable to be Read from the Chronological Order
My point of why the Quran must be read from the chronological order are the following;

1. It is to read it as near as possible to historical facts. Facts and truths must prevail.

2. As such one can get a better objective and rational view of the Quran from the perspective of the 23 years of Muhammad life.

3. Since Muhammad is a religious founder, the chronological order of the Quran will facilitate a comparison of the pattern of his various phases of religious events to other religious and spiritual founders and the likes.

4. Other than religious elements, one can also compare the psychological and emotional states of Muhammad to other religious/spiritual/cult leaders. All religions started as cults with a small number of followers and only be categorized as a religion when the number of followers are reasonably large.
One noticeable element is how the levels of aggression and violence increase chronologically to a degree, the last chapter 9 has no "Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim" in the beginning of the chapter. Scholars give all sort of excuses why it is not there. But is more true to say, at the highest level of aggression as in chapter 9, there is no room for mercy and compassion.

5. When read in chronological order, one can easily align the chapter with the life of Muhammad and the personal events of his life with his wives and others.

6. Thus the chronological order is more factual and truthful and thus provide a greater understanding why Islam is why it is what-it-is-today, especially the behaviors of the minority of violent extremists and fundamentalists.

7. From 5 it is not difficult to rearrange or extract the main religious principles and elements from the Quran with comparative principles from the Torah and the Gospels.
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There must be a reason why the chapters in the Quran were arranged by compilers in the order they appeared in the conventional order since it was compiled and accepted as the standard till the present.

I believe as proposed by many, the Quran was compiled in the current order as an ideological book with religious background to unite and CONTROL the people of a vast conquered empire via the fear of God just as such strategy has been used by various leaders of nations.
Like Robin Hood, there may not be a real historical Muhammad but there was perhaps a General and his troops who managed to conquer many parcels of land within and without the Arabian peninsula.

The current order of the Quran is spearheaded by the fear of mortality and fear of God and based on a very chauvinistic and sense of arrogance. This is a strategy to control the masses and the next 8 chapters are martial, aggressive and imperialistic in nature.

The eschatological and soteriological elements are in bulk of the later chapters and activated from the background as checks and controls to ensure the masses are well-corralled, straightjacketed and subdued.

Since Muslims at present are so emotionally and psychologically conditioned to the existing order it is unlikely for any Muslims to look at it from a chronological order and other order to avoid their faith being shaken.


Why the Quran is Preferable to be Read from the Chronological Order
My point of why the Quran must be read from the chronological order are the following;

1. It is to read it as near as possible to historical facts. Facts and truths must prevail.

2. As such one can get a better objective and rational view of the Quran from the perspective of the 23 years of Muhammad life.

3. Since Muhammad is a religious founder, the chronological order of the Quran will facilitate a comparison of the pattern of his various phases of religious events to other religious and spiritual founders and the likes.

4. Other than religious elements, one can also compare the psychological and emotional states of Muhammad to other religious/spiritual/cult leaders. All religions started as cults with a small number of followers and only be categorized as a religion when the number of followers are reasonably large.
One noticeable element is how the levels of aggression and violence increase chronologically to a degree, the last chapter 9 has no "Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim" in the beginning of the chapter. Scholars give all sort of excuses why it is not there. But is more true to say, at the highest level of aggression as in chapter 9, there is no room for mercy and compassion.

5. When read in chronological order, one can easily align the chapter with the life of Muhammad and the personal events of his life with his wives and others.

6. Thus the chronological order is more factual and truthful and thus provide a greater understanding why Islam is why it is what-it-is-today, especially the behaviors of the minority of violent extremists and fundamentalists.

7. From 5 it is not difficult to rearrange or extract the main religious principles and elements from the Quran with comparative principles from the Torah and the Gospels.
Are you aware of how the Qur'an is taught?

The Qur'an is taught as route memory by a Hafiz (A person that has memorized the Qur'an)

For the Purpose of teaching, the Qur'an is divided into 30 Juz of approximently equal length with each Juz taking almost exctly an hour to recite when recited with proper tajweed (Qur'anic pronunciation)the Juz are as follows

Juz’ 1 – Al Fatiha 1 – Al Baqarah 141

Juz’ 2 – Al Baqarah 142 - Al Baqarah 252

Juz’ 3 – Al Baqarah 253 - Al Imran 92

Juz’ 4 – Al Imran 93 - An Nisaa 23

Juz’ 5 – An Nisaa 24 - An Nisaa 147

Juz’ 6 – An Nisaa 148 - Al Ma’idah 81

Juz’ 7 – Al Ma’idah 82 - Al An’am 110

Juz’ 8 – Al An’am 111 - Al A’raf 87

Juz’ 9 – Al A’raf 88 - Al Anfal 40

Juz’ 10 – Al Anfal 41 - At Tauba 92

Juz’ 11 – At Tauba 93 - Hud 5

Juz’ 12 – Hud 6 - Yusuf 52

Juz’ 13 – Yusuf 53 – Ibrahim 52

Juz’ 14 – Al Hijr 1 – An Nahl 128

Juz’ 15 – Bani Isra’il 1 - Al Kahf 74

Juz’ 16 – Al Kahf 75 – Ta Ha 135

Juz’ 17 – Al Anbiyaa 1 - Al Hajj 78

Juz’ 18 – Al Muminun 1 - Al Furqan 20

Juz’ 19 – Al Furqan 21 - An Naml 55

Juz’ 20 – An Naml 56 - Al Ankabut 45

Juz’ 21 – Al Ankabut 46 - Al Ahzab 30

Juz’ 22 – Al Ahzab 31 - Ya Sin 27

Juz’ 23 – Ya Sin 28 - Az Zumar 31

Juz’ 24 – Az Zumar 32 - Fussilat 46

Juz’ 25 – Fussilat 47 - Al Jathiya 37

Juz’ 26 – Al Ahqaf 1 - Az Zariyat 30

Juz’ 27 – Az Zariyat 31 - Al Hadid 29

Juz’ 28 – Al Mujadila 1 – At Tahrim 12

Juz’ 29 – Al Mulk 1 - Al Mursalat 50

Juz’ 30 – An Nabaa 1 - An Nas 6

The teaching begins with Juz 30, which Chronological is the earliest Surat (Plural of Surah). Numerically Juz 30 is Surah 78-114 and contains nearly 1/2 of the Meccan Surat. For many Muslims that will be nearly all the Qur'an they will ever learn The Qur'an has a very small vocabulary containing only 12,183 unique vocabulary words which are derived from only 1685 root words. In other words to read the Qur'an in Qur'an Arabic, one only needs to learn 1,685 words. Over 85% of those words are found in Juz 30 by the time a person has learned Juz 30 and 29 they will have learned the entire vocabulary used in the Qur'an and will have memorized Surah 67-114 over 1/2 of the Surat and virtually all of the Meccan Surat which are basically very short.

Essentially when one is being taught the Qur'an, it is taught in chronological order, at least in terms when a Surah was begun. The longer Meccan surat were begun long before any Medinah surah but not completed until after many Medina surat were completed.

Quote:
From guidelines on learning the Quran
13. The three chunks. Start from the back. Shorter surahs will bring you a big boost. You should divide the memorization of the Qur'an in three parts:

a) Juz 28, 29, 30 or just Juz 29, 30

b) Surah Al-Kahf till Juz 28

c) Surah Al-Baqara to Surah Al-Kahf
13 Steps to Memorize the Quran by Yasir Qadhi

The Qur'an is arraigned for recitation there is a very smooth flow of the rhythm and the last word of each surah blends into the first word of the next. a very smooth flow almost a musical quality.

Typically a person will not learn Tafsir (Commentary and interpretations) until after they have become Hafiz. (Know the entire Qur'an by memory) Then they are encourged to learn the major Tafsir and fatwas (a fatwa is not a command to kill somebody., It is a Mufti's opinion of a jurisprudence ruling and if it is supported or not supported by the Qur'an along with His explanations for his opinion.



But If you have an understanding as to the basic methodology to studying the Qur'an you will find it is taught in chronological order.

Now with that said We have no required order in which to read the Qur'an but we should treat each surah as an individual Book. although Surah gets translated to English as Chapter, that is like calling each book in the Bible a chapter.
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 07-26-2015 at 08:03 AM..
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Old 07-26-2015, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Are you aware of how the Qur'an is taught?

The Qur'an is taught as route memory by a Hafiz (A person that has memorized the Qur'an)

For the Purpose of teaching, the Qur'an is divided into 30 Juz of approximently equal length with each Juz taking almost exctly an hour to recite when recited with proper tajweed (Qur'anic pronunciation)the Juz are as follows

. .. <snip>....

The teaching begins with Juz 30, which Chronological is the earliest Surat (Plural of Surah). Numerically Juz 30 is Surah 78-114 and contains nearly 1/2 of the Meccan Surat. For many Muslims that will be nearly all the Qur'an they will ever learn The Qur'an has a very small vocabulary containing only 12,183 unique vocabulary words which are derived from only 1685 root words. In other words to read the Qur'an in Qur'an Arabic, one only needs to learn 1,685 words. Over 85% of those words are found in Juz 30 by the time a person has learned Juz 30 and 29 they will have learned the entire vocabulary used in the Qur'an and will have memorized Surah 67-114 over 1/2 of the Surat and virtually all of the Meccan Surat which are basically very short.
OK, this is new and noted.

Quote:
Essentially when one is being taught the Qur'an, it is taught in chronological order, at least in terms when a Surah was begun. The longer Meccan surat were begun long before any Medinah surah but not completed until after many Medina surat were completed.


13 Steps to Memorize the Quran by Yasir Qadhi

The Qur'an is arraigned for recitation there is a very smooth flow of the rhythm and the last word of each surah blends into the first word of the next. a very smooth flow almost a musical quality.

Typically a person will not learn Tafsir (Commentary and interpretations) until after they have become Hafiz. (Know the entire Qur'an by memory) Then they are encourged to learn the major Tafsir and fatwas (a fatwa is not a command to kill somebody., It is a Mufti's opinion of a jurisprudence ruling and if it is supported or not supported by the Qur'an along with His explanations for his opinion.


But If you have an understanding as to the basic methodology to studying the Qur'an you will find it is taught in chronological order.

Now with that said We have no required order in which to read the Qur'an but we should treat each surah as an individual Book. although Surah gets translated to English as Chapter, that is like calling each book in the Bible a chapter.
The above is not in near Chronological order but rather in some sort of chronological phases which may facilitate memorization but not much help on the matter of historical and other facts.

There are various claims in the versions of chronological orders, e.g.
Quran Verses in Chronological Order: Qran.org
With a bit of refinement we can get a good estimate via hermeneutical methods.

I believe it is VERY easy to understand the Quran in chronological order from the perspective of Philosophy of Religion when supported by a hermeneutical approach and relevant analysis.
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Old 07-27-2015, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
OK, this is new and noted.

The above is not in near Chronological order but rather in some sort of chronological phases which may facilitate memorization but not much help on the matter of historical and other facts.

There are various claims in the versions of chronological orders, e.g.
Quran Verses in Chronological Order: Qran.org
With a bit of refinement we can get a good estimate via hermeneutical methods.

I believe it is VERY easy to understand the Quran in chronological order from the perspective of Philosophy of Religion when supported by a hermeneutical approach and relevant analysis.
Many of the Meccan surat were completed in Medina.

The individual surah have to be considered more like books. Each of them being written over long periods of time and often over several years. Some of the Mecca Surah were not completed ontil after the Medina surah althoug were begun 10 or more years before any of the Medina sura

This link points out the surah that contain ayyats from both Mecca and Medina

Revelation Order - Tanzil
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