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Old 08-07-2015, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I agree there is always a gap between believing and performance. I am not into this point in this case.

In this case, I presume one is performing as close to what one is believing [%] or submitting [%].

My question to you is,
How do you know what you are believing is actually the true belief of Islam in totality, i.e. a mark of >90%+ of what it take to be a Muslim.
From what I have read of the Quran and comparing your postings, I believe your degree of being of a Muslim could be, say, not more than 55%.

Your status is likely to be [imo];
As Muslim -Submitting = 40%, Believing [55%]; as a human being [70%].

On the other hand, a fundamentalist Muslim is likely to be [imo];
As Muslim -Submitting =10%, Believing [90%]; as a human being [30%]

The degree of 'believing' in this case is based on the % of compliance by a Muslim to the whole of the Quran in the critical and significant elements.

The fundamentalists can tick off more compliances with the Quran than you, that is objective as far as this comparison is concerned.
The point is who is to decide other than what is stated in the Quran [alone].

Note a lesser ranked Muslims will be accorded less rewards on That DAY as compared to the truer higher ranked Muslim.
Just addressing this:


Quote:
My question to you is,
How do you know what you are believing is actually the true belief of Islam in totality, i.e. a mark of >90%+ of what it take to be a Muslim.
From what I have read of the Quran and comparing your postings, I believe your degree of being of a Muslim could be, say, not more than 55%.
Like all Muslims I can only do that which I have knowledge of and the ability to do.

Perfection is not expected. We will be judged upon our intentions, ability and knowledge. Being a Muslim is not based upon quantity, it is based upon Quality. It is possible for a person with little knowledge and ability to achiev Ihsan as their intent and effort are in the highest level of their capability.

I do not know my "Status" and am not concerned about it. I am only concerned that I do the best I can. I am not in this to seek rewards, I am Muslim because it is my desire to serve Allaah(swt) and I am not going to "sweat the small stuff". I am not in competition with any other Human.
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Old 08-07-2015, 08:50 AM
 
352 posts, read 308,581 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.




Quote:
My question to you is,
How do you know what you are believing is actually the true belief of Islam in totality, i.e. a mark of >90%+ of what it take to be a Muslim.

Self satisfaction. 'Perfection' is attached to 'Completion.' That is, coming closer to Allaah, The Most Compassionate, The Ever Merciful. Intentions matter. We are personally responsible for our actions. I intend to come ever closer to Allaah, the High Exalted. Nothing else matters to me! So, according to your poll, what "percentage" of a Muslim would you ''gauge'' me as?



Wassalaam. devotee
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:47 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,612 times
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"Allaah, The Most Compassionate, The Ever Merciful."

Muslims say this, but in the Quran I read that Allah is anything but compassionate and/or merciful.

Supposedly Allah CREATED THE UNIVERSE, which is mind boggling. Just think of this!! The power is beyond imagination!! Yet on this tiny planet among so many billions of planets he toys with us in a horrible way. The hate he has for unbelievers is astonishing! All he would have to do is make us all Muslims, a very simple feat for a CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. But instead he lets all these other religions flourish and then shows up and demands immediate belief in only him. AND!!:

"Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment." Quran 2:7

Allah is causing them to not believe!! And then there is a great punishment!! There is not free will or the choice to make decisions! Allah controls them.

The previous verse (for context):
"Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe."

Of course they will not believe ... Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. Allah is causing them not to believe! And then he punishes them in horrible ways.

How is this compassionate and merciful?
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Old 08-07-2015, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Allaah, The Most Compassionate, The Ever Merciful."

Muslims say this, but in the Quran I read that Allah is anything but compassionate and/or merciful.

Supposedly Allah CREATED THE UNIVERSE, which is mind boggling. Just think of this!! The power is beyond imagination!! Yet on this tiny planet among so many billions of planets he toys with us in a horrible way. The hate he has for unbelievers is astonishing! All he would have to do is make us all Muslims, a very simple feat for a CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. But instead he lets all these other religions flourish and then shows up and demands immediate belief in only him. AND!!:

"Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment." Quran 2:7

Allah is causing them to not believe!! And then there is a great punishment!! There is not free will or the choice to make decisions! Allah controls them.

The previous verse (for context):
"Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe."

Of course they will not believe ... Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. Allah is causing them not to believe! And then he punishes them in horrible ways.

How is this compassionate and merciful?
The "Seal" is of their own choice. It is the granting of what they desired. Not all disbelievers are by choice. Those that are disbelievers because they never had the opportunity to learn of Allaah(swt) will be jusged only in accordance with that which they had to opportunity to learn.


This world is a physical creation and we all are subject to the same "laws and randomness of physics" Allaah(swt) is not going to interfere in our choices unless we ask. We all will receive answers to our requests and prayers, but often they will not be what we want.


This Dunya (Earthly Trial) is all about choices. We all face trials and will face the consequences of our choices.

We are not expected to do that which we do not have the knowledge or ability to do. But we will be responsible for that which has been revealed to us and we choose to ignore.

Disbelief through genuine ignorance (ie that which we have not had the opportunity to learn) is not something one will be punished for. But all the Scriptures that came through the Prophets have warned those who disbelieve by choice.
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Old 08-07-2015, 01:07 PM
 
352 posts, read 308,581 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.





Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Allaah, The Most Compassionate, The Ever Merciful."

Muslims say this, but in the Quran I read that Allah is anything but compassionate and/or merciful.

Supposedly Allah CREATED THE UNIVERSE, which is mind boggling. Just think of this!! The power is beyond imagination!! Yet on this tiny planet among so many billions of planets he toys with us in a horrible way. The hate he has for unbelievers is astonishing! All he would have to do is make us all Muslims, a very simple feat for a CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. But instead he lets all these other religions flourish and then shows up and demands immediate belief in only him. AND!!:

"Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment." Quran 2:7

Allah is causing them to not believe!! And then there is a great punishment!! There is not free will or the choice to make decisions! Allah controls them.

The previous verse (for context):
"Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe."

Of course they will not believe ... Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. Allah is causing them not to believe! And then he punishes them in horrible ways.

How is this compassionate and merciful?

The word -- on the streets, and with those whom are knowledgeable -- is that they (disbelievers) can hear the message, but that, they don't want to hear it! Are you, one of those?




Wassalaam. devotee
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Old 08-07-2015, 07:14 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,612 times
Reputation: 435
"The "Seal" is of their own choice."

No, it's not. Allah puts the seal on them without asking if they want the seal. If someone does not immediately submit to allah, then allah puts a 'seal' on them and they will never submit to allah and are forever doomed to horrible punishment!

"Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment." Quran 2:7

Why doesn't allah just enlighten them instead of putting a seal on them which forever dooms them to torture? Seriously, terrible torture FOREVER isn't something a compassionate and merciful superbeing with the power to CREATE THE UNIVERSE would want. And do you really think that these people "desire" neverending horrible torture? Maybe they have been taught that some other CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE will torture them endlessly if they turn to this allah. But allah gives them no chance and no choice. Submit to him or his seal makes sure your free will is gone and then comes the great punishment.

Let's read on:

"In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie." Quran 2:10

Again, allah shows his true colors with the love of painful punishment that goes on forever! Instead of using his amazing powers to make them better, he has increased their disease!! This is not what a compassionate, merciful superbeing does.

Quran 2:17 reconfirms all this:

"Their example is that of one who kindled a fire, but when it illuminated what was around him, Allah took away their light and left them in darkness [so] they could not see."

Again, allah is so powerful that he CREATED THE UNIVERSE (according to Islam) and all I see in the Quran is petty hate and endless punishment and love of torture and death. Why? If it was so important to allah that we all submit to him, why not make us all Muslims? Allah has the power:

"The lightning almost snatches away their sight. Every time it lights [the way] for them, they walk therein; but when darkness comes over them, they stand [still]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent." Quran 2:20

Why toy with us and then endlessly torture us? That would make any compassionate, merciful person or superbeing horribly sick. But allah loves it.
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Old 08-07-2015, 07:15 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,612 times
Reputation: 435
"The word -- on the streets"

I wasn't aware that the word on the streets has more validity than the Quran.
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Old 08-07-2015, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"The word -- on the streets"

I wasn't aware that the word on the streets has more validity than the Quran.
While the Qur'an is the exact word of God(swt). Few if any of us are arrogant enough to claim our interpretation is correct.

We do share opinions on the possible meanings of what we might not fully understand.

The "Word on the Street" is a valid way of determining majority opinion and can often serve as a quide to assist us in understanding the Qur'an.
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Old 08-07-2015, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,898 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Just addressing this:

Like all Muslims I can only do that which I have knowledge of and the ability to do.

Perfection is not expected. We will be judged upon our intentions, ability and knowledge. Being a Muslim is not based upon quantity, it is based upon Quality. It is possible for a person with little knowledge and ability to achiev Ihsan as their intent and effort are in the highest level of their capability.

I do not know my "Status" and am not concerned about it. I am only concerned that I do the best I can. I am not in this to seek rewards, I am Muslim because it is my desire to serve Allaah(swt) and I am not going to "sweat the small stuff". I am not in competition with any other Human.
You can do your best but you have to go the extra mile.
Perfection is impossible, but Muslims are expected to as perfect as possible.

You are not in competition but it is repeated many times in the Quran Muslims are expected to compete with one another. example; [mine]
2:148. And each one [Muslim] hath a goal toward which he turneth; so vie with one another in good works. Wheresoever ye [Muslim] may be, Allah will bring you all together. [on J-DAY] Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.

3:114. They [Muslims-of-old] believe in Allah and the Last Day, and enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency, and vie one with another in good works. They are of the righteous [proto-Muslims].

3: 133. And vie one [compete] with another for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Paradise as wide as are the heavens and the earth, prepared for those who ward off (evil);

Whatever a Muslim thinks Allah will ranked him/her eventually and if it not enough in Allah's judgment one may even be punished. Are you sure you have done enough? Perhaps it is a bit late for you and you have done your best but you cannot deny the above with regards to Muslims in general.
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Old 08-07-2015, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,898 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.

Self satisfaction. 'Perfection' is attached to 'Completion.' That is, coming closer to Allaah, The Most Compassionate, The Ever Merciful. Intentions matter. We are personally responsible for our actions. I intend to come ever closer to Allaah, the High Exalted. Nothing else matters to me! So, according to your poll, what "percentage" of a Muslim would you ''gauge'' me as?

Wassalaam. devotee
I believe most moderate Muslims [I presume you are] at maximum are rated not more than 60% but they are better humans. I would rate the likes of Bin Laden at >80% but low in being human proper.
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