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Old 08-08-2015, 05:29 AM
 
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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.


Quote:
Most of the time these Muslims will justify their violence in the name of Allah, their religion, verses from the Quran and the likes ~ Continuum.

Where in the Glorious Qur'an does it state that someone should be murdered for criticizing Islam? Please elaborate.





This aggressive, type of thing is not Islamic, nor from True Muslims. You must report these threats, to the proper authority. You should know that Islam is under attack from every direction. Not to mention some group who are about as Islamic as a pork chop! They are doing the work of/for, the western world. Islam today, has been totally infiltrated. The Communist world of The New World Order, is the order of the day.



Quote:
juju33312 I have received many death threats from Muslims and never once did a Muslim speak out against the Muslims threatening me. It really is frightening to have Muslims threaten to kill your family and follow up by posting private information (or what they think is your private information). Lives have been ruined right here in the USA by Muslims going after people who speak against Islam. I don't mind hateful verbal personal attacks against me, but threats to kill my children and giving their names and location is really bad.



Wassalaam. devotee
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Old 08-08-2015, 11:30 AM
 
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"Where in the Glorious Qur'an does it state that someone should be murdered for criticizing Islam?"

Qur'an (33:57-61) - "Lo! those who malign Allah and His messenger, Allah hath cursed them in this world and the Hereafter, and hath prepared for them the doom of the disdained"

And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin.

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed.

If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbours in it but a little while.

Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

Muhammad, the perfect example for Muslims to follow, had his critics executed. I'd post all those hadiths but you'd just say they are all forgeries.

Last edited by juju33312; 08-08-2015 at 11:30 AM.. Reason: add quotation mark.
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Old 08-08-2015, 05:20 PM
 
352 posts, read 308,854 times
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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.


I think there is sufficient difference between malign, and criticize. They are not the same.



tr.v. ma·ligned, ma·lign·ing, ma·ligns
To make evil, harmful, and often untrue statements about (someone).
adj.
1. Evil or harmful in nature or effect: "He felt that the malign influence of the house had governed his own disintegration" (Thomas Wolfe).
2. Intending or threatening harm or ill will; malevolent: "a snarling, bickering husky ... heavy-chested, with a malign eye" (Jack London).

Synonyms: malign, defame, traduce, vilify, slander, calumniate, libel



v. crit·i·cized, crit·i·ciz·ing, crit·i·ciz·es
v.tr.
1. To find fault with: criticized the decision as unrealistic. See Usage Note at critique.
2. To judge the merits and faults of; analyze and evaluate: criticizes art for a living.
v.intr.
To act as a critic.

Criticizing - definition of criticizing by The Free Dictionary


Lo! those who malign Allah and His messenger, Allah hath cursed them in the world and the Hereafter, and hath prepared for them the doom of the disdained. (57) And those who malign believing men and believing women undeservedly, they bear the guilt of slander and manifest sin. (58) O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. (59) If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbours in it but a little while. (60) Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter. (61) That was the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away of old; thou wilt not find for the way of Allah aught of power to change. (62) Men ask thee of the Hour. Say: The knowledge of it is with Allah only. What can convey (the knowledge) unto thee? It may be that the Hour is nigh. (63) Lo! Allah hath cursed the disbelievers, and hath prepared for them a flaming fire, (64) Wherein they will abide for ever. They will find (then) no protecting friend nor helper. (65) On the day when their faces are turned over in the Fire, they say: Oh, would that we had obeyed Allah and had obeyed His messenger! (66) And they say: Our Lord! Lo! we obeyed our princes and great men, and they misled us from the Way. (67) Our Lord! Oh, give them double torment and curse them with a mighty curse.




Wassalaam. devotee
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,588,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.

Where in the Glorious Qur'an does it state that someone should be murdered for criticizing Islam? Please elaborate.
The use of 'criticize' is as a very loose term.

Criticizing - definition of criticizing by The Free Dictionary
I accept the definition of 'criticize' in the above link.
However note 'criticize' come in degrees.

How SOME [not all] Muslims ended up murdering those who critique Islam is based on combination and culmination of verses [up to 3000+] from the Quran [plus hadiths, sira] and brainwashing.
Here are a sample [amongst many thousands in combination]; [mine]
9:111. Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers [Muslims] their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs they [Muslims] shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him [Muslim] in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye [Muslims] have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

2:216. Warfare is ordained for you [Muslims], though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

2:244. Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Nearer, Knower.

2:73. O Prophet! Strive [other translations- wage jihad] against the disbelievers and the hypocrites [infidels]! Be harsh with them [infidels]. Their [infidels] ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.

47:4. Now when ye [as Muslims] meet in battle those [infidels] who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks [strike off their heads] until, when ye [Muslims] have routed them [infidels], then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you [Muslims] by means of others [the infidels]. And those [Muslims] who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

The above are the stance and principles a good Muslims should adopt at all times and be prepared to face any threats against the religion.
Islam is based on ideology and when the ideology is heavily criticized, that is deemed as a threat and thus every Muslim is obliged to "go to war" as per the verses in the Quran.

I understand not all Muslims will adopt the above, but as I have always stated, it is the fundamentalists* who are of the most concerned and there is no one to decide how [right or wrong] they interpret the above verses.
*If 20% that is 300 million around the world

The FACT is non-Muslims are murdered around the world for merely criticizing the Quran and Islam, and no one human [fallible] can decide or insist these fundamentalists are wrong!

Last edited by Continuum; 08-08-2015 at 09:25 PM..
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Old 08-09-2015, 04:00 AM
 
226 posts, read 123,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Islam today, has been totally infiltrated.
So even if it's a mainstream part of Islamic teaching to kill blasphemers, you could just reject the evidence because you don't care about mainstream Islam in the first place.
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Old 08-09-2015, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The use of 'criticize' is as a very loose term.

Criticizing - definition of criticizing by The Free Dictionary
I accept the definition of 'criticize' in the above link.
However note 'criticize' come in degrees.

How SOME [not all] Muslims ended up murdering those who critique Islam is based on combination and culmination of verses [up to 3000+] from the Quran [plus hadiths, sira] and brainwashing.
Here are a sample [amongst many thousands in combination]; [mine]
9:111. Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers [Muslims] their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs they [Muslims] shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him [Muslim] in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye [Muslims] have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

2:216. Warfare is ordained for you [Muslims], though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

2:244. Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Nearer, Knower.

2:73. O Prophet! Strive [other translations- wage jihad] against the disbelievers and the hypocrites [infidels]! Be harsh with them [infidels]. Their [infidels] ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.

47:4. Now when ye [as Muslims] meet in battle those [infidels] who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks [strike off their heads] until, when ye [Muslims] have routed them [infidels], then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you [Muslims] by means of others [the infidels]. And those [Muslims] who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

The above are the stance and principles a good Muslims should adopt at all times and be prepared to face any threats against the religion.
Islam is based on ideology and when the ideology is heavily criticized, that is deemed as a threat and thus every Muslim is obliged to "go to war" as per the verses in the Quran.

I understand not all Muslims will adopt the above, but as I have always stated, it is the fundamentalists* who are of the most concerned and there is no one to decide how [right or wrong] they interpret the above verses.
*If 20% that is 300 million around the world

The FACT is non-Muslims are murdered around the world for merely criticizing the Quran and Islam, and no one human [fallible] can decide or insist these fundamentalists are wrong!
Try to find the names of 10 non-Muslims that have been legally killed by an Islamic Court for criticizing Islam. true some Muslims have murdered non-Muslims for criticizing Islam, but not under the Authority of a Court. All Muslims are obligated to abide by the laws of the Nation they live in.


To what extent do Muslims have to obey the governments of the non-Muslim countries in which they live? To what extent can they disobey or resist those governments?
Answered by
Sheikh Salman al-Oadah
The Muslims living a non-Muslim country, even if they originally entered that country by means of forged documents, are considered to be living in their adopted country under a covenant. They must, therefore, comply with the laws of their country of residence without, at the same time, disobeying Islamic Law.

Allah says: “Oh you who believe! Fulfill (your) obligations.” [Sűrah al-Mâ’idah: 1]

He also says: “And fulfill (every) covenant. Verily! The covenant will be questioned about.” [Sűrah al-Isrâ': 34]

He says: “And fulfill the Covenant to Allah when you have covenanted, and break not the oaths after you have confirmed them.” [Sűrah al-Nahl: 91]

A Muslim is not to break or violate oaths or promises. He will not be a true faithful Muslim if he does so. Allah Said: “It is not the case that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throws it aside. Nay! The truth is most of them believe not.” [Sűrah al-Baqarah: 100]

Among the characteristics of a hypocrite is that he: “…acts treacherously toward covenants (pledges), and when entrusted he betrays.”

Scholars have stated that those who enter non-Muslim countries have to adhere to their respective laws and regulations even if they entered those countries illegally, and they have no excuse for breaking those laws, since they were entrusted to abide by those laws upon entry into those countries.

The eminent Hanafî jurist, Mohammad b. Hasan Al-Shaybânî writes [Biographies (2/6)]:

If it happens that a company of Muslims pass through the enemy’s front lines by deceptively pretended to be messengers of the Muslim’s Caliph carrying official documents – or if they were just allowed to pass through the enemy lines – they are not allowed to engage in any hostilities with the enemy troops. Neither are they entitled to seize any of their money or properties as long as they are in their area of authority. This also applies in case of being truly trusted by the other party.

Obeying the law in non-Muslim countries | IslamToday - English
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Old 08-09-2015, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Try to find the names of 10 non-Muslims that have been legally killed by an Islamic Court for criticizing Islam. true some Muslims have murdered non-Muslims for criticizing Islam, but not under the Authority of a Court. All Muslims are obligated to abide by the laws of the Nation they live in.
This is off topic re 'Murder for Criticizing Islam?'

Anyway ..
It is only the words of some 'experts' that asserted 'all Muslims are obligated to abide by the laws of the Nation they live in.'
The majority of Muslims however believe the Laws of Allah are the ultimate Laws for all humans and they expect this to be implemented like what ISIS is doing on an Ummah basis. Muslims only respect National Laws because they are constraint by circumstances.
Unfortunately there is no central authority what is the right or wrong interpretation of what is Allah's Law from the Quran.

At present Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, the United Arab Emirates, and Afghanistan have capital punishments for blasphemy.
Note example,

A young man, a student of journalism, is sentenced to death by an Islamic court for downloading a report from the internet. The sentence is then upheld by the country's rulers.
Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights - Asia - World - The Independent

Back to topic;
The FACT is there are provisions in the Quran for killing non-Muslims or even Muslims for criticizing Islam. This is against the background of the need to defend the religion against threats, i.e. physical or ideological. Note the following verses.
Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment.

Quran 33:57
Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time: They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy). — Quran 33:61
Btw, since I started posting here you have not been abled to counter any of my points or show them to be false. This is because I put in extra-ordinary effort to ensure what I post is true. If there is any uncertainty [hypothesis or speculation] I will always qualify that.
On your side I hope you understand your journey of religiosity is via faith and as such you have to bend, break, deflect from and cover up the truth even to the extent of grabbing on to falsehoods.

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Old 08-10-2015, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This is off topic re 'Murder for Criticizing Islam?'

Anyway ..
It is only the words of some 'experts' that asserted 'all Muslims are obligated to abide by the laws of the Nation they live in.'
The majority of Muslims however believe the Laws of Allah are the ultimate Laws for all humans and they expect this to be implemented like what ISIS is doing on an Ummah basis. Muslims only respect National Laws because they are constraint by circumstances.
Unfortunately there is no central authority what is the right or wrong interpretation of what is Allah's Law from the Quran.

At present Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, the United Arab Emirates, and Afghanistan have capital punishments for blasphemy.
Note example,

A young man, a student of journalism, is sentenced to death by an Islamic court for downloading a report from the internet. The sentence is then upheld by the country's rulers.
Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights - Asia - World - The Independent

Back to topic;
The FACT is there are provisions in the Quran for killing non-Muslims or even Muslims for criticizing Islam. This is against the background of the need to defend the religion against threats, i.e. physical or ideological. Note the following verses.
Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment.

Quran 33:57
Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time: They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy). — Quran 33:61
Btw, since I started posting here you have not been abled to counter any of my points or show them to be false. This is because I put in extra-ordinary effort to ensure what I post is true. If there is any uncertainty [hypothesis or speculation] I will always qualify that.
On your side I hope you understand your journey of religiosity is via faith and as such you have to bend, break, deflect from and cover up the truth even to the extent of grabbing on to falsehoods.
Not off topic, because every Islamic Nation has laws forbidding Murder and to kill a person simply because he criticised Islam is Murder.
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Old 08-10-2015, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
---SNIP-----

On your side I hope you understand your journey of religiosity is via faith and as such you have to bend, break, deflect from and cover up the truth even to the extent of grabbing on to falsehoods.
Perhaps you are making an assumption based upon your own beliefs.

I really do not think I put much stock in the concept of belief through faith. If one believes simply because they have Faith, that is Blind Faith and the only thing that can be said about blind Faith is it is blind.

As a Muslim I am to not believe anything unless I have personally verified it is true. After Having read the Qur'an from 1959 until at least 1979 as a literary critic I am thoroughly convinced it could not have been written by a 7th Century Arab. I tend to be a skeptic about all things and have lived a life based upon that which I have verified. I am not a very trusting person and do have doubts about all things claimed to be revelations from a deity. Yes, I do have many doubts regarding an after life and still am not convinced there is eternal life, heaven, hell, or souls.

But I am convinced the Universe was created by an intelligent force and that this force made his presence known. I do find it logical that would have been done by revelations to Prophets(PBUT)

I am a searcher and continue to question all things. But I do find the Qur'an to be an excellent guide for all people to live by. I see it as a recipe for Peace and successful coexistence.

A Friend summed it up quite well on another forum.

Quote:

Is there any “blind faith” in Islam?​

Islam is not a religion of “blind faith” but is a religion that strongly calls on man to use his logic, reasoning and intellect.

Allah in the Quran stresses the importance for people to think, to reason and to use their mind and intellect. The word “mind” or “reasoning” is mentioned 49 times in the Quran
(in Arabic Ta’qiloon 24 times, Ya’qiloon 22 times, and A’qal, Na’qil and Ya’qil one time each). Also Allah refers to “people of understanding” 16 times in the Quran (in Arabic Ulu Al-AlBab or Uli Al-Albab).

Allah also refers to “those of intelligence” two times in Chapter 20 by the Arabic term Uli Al-Nuha. Allah also refers in many chapters in the Quran to the mind by the Arabic word Al-Fuad. Also in many verses in the Quran, Allah uses the term heart (in Arabic Al-Qalb) in place of the word Al-Fuad (mind) to mean the same thing.

In one place in Chapter 89 verses 53 & 54, Allah refers to the mind by the Arabic word Al-Hijr. The Quran also, in tens of verses, strongly calls and emphasizes the need to “contemplate” and to “give thought” (in Arabic Fikr or Tafakkor).

Also in tens of verses, the Quran draws attention to the importance for man to “remember” and to “recall” (in Arabic Tazakkor). The significance of the two being: to “give thought” is to increase or acquire new knowledge, whereas to “remember” is to recall and remind oneself of relevant knowledge and events that may have been forgotten, but which are important for one’s faith.

Allah praises people who use their mind:
[​IMG] Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding - Who remember Allah while standing or sitting or [lying] on their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth, [saying], “Our Lord, You did not create this aimlessly; exalted are You [above such a thing]; then protect us from the punishment of the Fire.” [​IMG] (Quran, 3:190-191)

About the Quran, Allah Says:
[​IMG] [This is] a blessed Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], that they (i.e. people) might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded. [​IMG](Quran, 38:29)


In the Quran, the words that can be formed from the term “know” or “knowledge” (root 'elm in Arabic) is to be found 865 times. In one verse Allah says: (Are those who know equal to those who do not know? Only they will remember [who are] people of understanding. )(Quran, 39:9).

Also: (And so those who were given knowledge may know that It (i.e. the Quran) is the truth from your Lord and [therefore] believe in it, and their hearts humbly submit to it. And indeed is Allah the Guide of those who have believed to a straight path. ) (Quran, 22:54).

On the other hand, the Quran strongly rejects certain mentalities that are driven by myths, illusions, absurdities, ignorance, blind imitation of others, assumption (conjecture), prejudice, whims and desires. In fact, Allah in the Quran confirms that most people on earth have gone astray because they follow assumption, conjecture and ignorance.

Allah says:
(And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying (out of ignorance, conjecture and assumption). )(Quran, 6:116)
Is there any 'blind Faith" in islam ? | ReligiousForums.com
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Old 08-10-2015, 01:38 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 753,881 times
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"because every Islamic Nation has laws forbidding Murder and to kill a person simply because he criticised Islam is Murder."

Let's take a look at that!

"In Egypt, the law against blasphemy is one of the instruments which the government and the Sunni majority use to persecute Egyptian minorities who do not subscribe to Sunni religious views. The most persecuted minorities[according to whom?] are Shia, Sufi, Ahmadis, Christians, Bahai, and atheists[citation needed]. The persecution may involve surveillance, harassment, prolonged detention, mistreatment, torture, and the death penalty."

I think you asked for 10 non-Muslims:
2012[edit]
In November 2012, seven Egyptian Christians were sentenced to death for their role in the anti-Mohammad movie Innocence of Muslims.[23]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasph..._in_Egypt#2014

Let's move on:
The Pakistan Penal Code prohibits blasphemy against any recognized religion, providing penalties ranging from a fine to death. From 1987 to 2014 over 1300 people have been accused of blasphemy, mostly non-Muslim religious minorities. The vast majority of the accusations were lodged for desecration of the Quran.[1]

In January, 2014 Muhammad Asghar, a 70 year old British man from Edinburgh, was convicted of blasphemy and sentenced to death by a court in Rawalpindi.
Rimsha Masih (some reports use the name "Rifta" or "Riftah") is a Pakistani child who was arrested in Islamabad by Pakistani police in August 2012 and who could face the death penalty for blasphemy[37][38] for allegedly desecrating pages of the Quran (or a book containing verses from the Quran) by burning.[39][40] She is a member of Pakistan's Christian minority.[37]

More:

Iran is a constitutional, Islamic theocracy. Its official religion is the doctrine of the Twelver Jaafari School.[1] Iran's law against blasphemy derives from Sharia. Blasphemers are usually charged with "spreading corruption on earth", or mofsed-e-filarz, which can also be applied to criminal or political crimes. The law against blasphemy complements laws against criticizing the Islamic regime, insulting Islam, and publishing materials that deviate from Islamic standards.[1] The regime uses these laws to persecute religious minorities such as the Sunni, Bahai, Sufi, and Christians and to persecute dissidents and journalists. Persecuted individuals are subject to surveillance by the "religious police," harassment, prolonged detention, mistreatment, torture, and execution.[1][2][3] The courts have acquitted vigilantes who killed in the belief that their victims were engaged in un-Islamic activities.[4] [5]

I have time for one more:
Saudi Arabia's laws are an amalgam of rules from Sharia (mainly the rules formulated by the Hanbali school of jurisprudence but also from other schools of law like the Jafari one), royal decrees, royal ordinances, other royal codes and bylaws, fatwas from the Council of Senior Religious Scholars and custom and practice.[1][2] The kingdom's laws treat blasphemy as an instance of apostasy[citation needed]. Sharia says apostasy is a hadd (line-crossing) offence. Sharia prescribes the death penalty for hadd offences.[1]

To secure convictions, Saudi Arabia's administrative and judicial authorities routinely seek confessions. To secure confessions, the authorities commonly engage in severe violations of human rights. Persons accused of blasphemy may be subjected to torture or to cruel and degrading treatment as well as to prolonged and solitary detention. The proceedings which determine an accused's fate may be secret. Execution is usually by beheading with a sword for males and by firing squad for females.

In 2009, Amnesty International reported that "at least 102 men and women, 39 of them foreign nationals, were executed in 2008. Many were executed for non-violent offences, including drug offences, 'sodomy', blasphemy and apostasy."[4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasph...n_Saudi_Arabia
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