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Old 08-15-2015, 02:27 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
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"However even Pickthal stated the
Qur'an is impossible to translate and all he could do is write his interpretation."

I find this so very evil. The supposed CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE sends down a book that is impossible to translate and then wants everyone to follow that book or be slaughtered. This being who can do ANYTHING refuses to download an understandable version to our iphones. Why? Wouldn't you think that this amazing superpower (who puts every superhero to shame) would at least play fair? Or just make us all Muslims and be done with all the terrorism and hate and bloody beheadings and rapes? He could even straighten out that issue of 53 year old Muhammed raping the 9 year old little girl.

"Under Sharia Sexual relations are illegal with anyone you do not have a signed Nikkah with."

Prove it.
Shariah for Dummies

The Quran says it is fine to have sex with/rape your slaves/captive women. And the Quran is the direct word from Allah.

Ruling on having intercourse with a slave woman when one has a wife - islamqa.info

What is happening to women under shariah law is horrible. But that's another topic.
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Old 08-15-2015, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"However even Pickthal stated the
Qur'an is impossible to translate and all he could do is write his interpretation."

I find this so very evil. The supposed CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE sends down a book that is impossible to translate and then wants everyone to follow that book or be slaughtered. This being who can do ANYTHING refuses to download an understandable version to our iphones. Why? Wouldn't you think that this amazing superpower (who puts every superhero to shame) would at least play fair? Or just make us all Muslims and be done with all the terrorism and hate and bloody beheadings and rapes? He could even straighten out that issue of 53 year old Muhammed raping the 9 year old little girl.

"Under Sharia Sexual relations are illegal with anyone you do not have a signed Nikkah with."

Prove it.
Shariah for Dummies

The Quran says it is fine to have sex with/rape your slaves/captive women. And the Quran is the direct word from Allah.

Ruling on having intercourse with a slave woman when one has a wife - islamqa.info

What is happening to women under shariah law is horrible. But that's another topic.
If you read from you link you will find it is required to marry the slaves and concubines before have sex with them

Ibn Katheer said:
Taking a concubine as well as a wife is permissible according to the law of Ibraaheem (peace be upon him). Ibraaheem did that with Haajar, when he took her as a concubine when he was married to Saarah.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/383
And Ibn Katheer also said:
The phrase “and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses — whom Allaah has given to you” [al-Ahzaab 33:50] means, it is permissible for you take concubines from among those whom you seized as war booty. He took possession of Safiyyah and Juwayriyah and he freed them and married them; he took possession of Rayhaanah bint Sham’oon al-Nadariyyah and Maariyah al-Qibtiyyah, the mother of his son Ibraaheem (peace be upon them both), and they were among his concubines, may Allaah be pleased with them both.




Shariah is one of the 4 Madhabs, not what many non-Muslims and some Muslims call Shariah.

Sex outside of marriage (A person you do not have a signed Nikkah with), is the Hadd crime of Zina-in all 4 Madhabs.-Meaning it is a crime that requires an earthly punishment.

Zināʾ (زِنَاء) or zina (زِنًى or زِنًا) is an Islamic law concerning unlawful sexual relations between Muslims who are not married to one another through a Nikah.[1] It includes extramarital sex and premarital sex,[2][3] such as adultery (consensual sexual relations outside marriage),[4] fornication (consensual sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons),[5] homosexuality (consensual sexual relations between same-sex partners),[6] and rape (non-marital and non-consensual forced sex).[7] It also includes incest (sexual activity with family members and blood relatives), and zoophilia (sexual activity with non-human animals).

In the four schools of Sunni fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence), and the two schools of Shi'a fiqh, the term zināʾ is a sin of sexual intercourse that is not allowed by Sharia (Islamic law
) and classed as a hudud crime (class of Islamic punishments that are fixed for certain crimes that are considered to be "claims of God").[8] To prove an act of zina, a qadi (religious judge) in a sharia court relies on an unmarried woman's pregnancy, the confession in the name of Allah, or four witnesses to the actual act of penetration. The last two types of prosecutions are uncommon; most prosecuted cases of zina in the history of Islam have been pregnant unmarried women.[9][10] In the traditional Islamic sources, specific rules or guidelines for proving cases of rape can hardly be found.[11][12] Although, in some schools of Islamic law, a pregnant woman accused of zina who denies sex was consensual must prove she was raped with four eyewitnesses testifying before the court. This has led to many cases where rape victims have been punished for zina.[13][14] Pressing charges of zina without required eyewitnesses is considered slander (Qadhf, القذف) in Islam, itself a hudud crime

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina

I chose a non-Islamic source as it probably will not be accused of being apologetic. It is fairly accurate, however in the Hanafi Madhab pregnancy is not proof of Zina.
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 08-15-2015 at 03:51 PM..
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Old 08-15-2015, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
What you said:

People will have very few intimate friends in their life time. Once a person has as much as one intimate friend it becomes difficult to remain true to that friend if you take on an additional intimate friend. Loyalty conflicts are almost certain to occur.

Pickthall designated 38 verse mentioning some variation of Friend/Friendship not a one forbids Muslims to have a non-Muslim as a Saddiq (Friend)

It should be noted Muhammad(saws) had non-Muslim friends. In fact virtually all of his companions were non-Muslim friends of his before they accepted Islam. At the time of Muhammad(saws)'s death there were no people older than 23 that had been born into a Muslim family. The first relavation of the Qur'an was received 23 years before the death of Muhammad(saws) and the Qur'an was not completed until very shortly before his death.

Also notice a Muslim man is permitted to marry a non-Muslim woman (Jew, Christian or Sabeean) and she is not required to convert. It should be save to assume the man will at least be friends with her, even though she is not Muslim.
Deflection as usual. I had produced verses [there are many others] that

1. commanded Muslims to be 'stern' with non-Muslims.
2. Muslims are not be friends [as allies in whatever] with non-Muslims.
3. Muslims are not be intimate friends with non-Muslims.
4. Muslims are to be wary of kins, relatives, brethren, relatives, parents of they are not Muslim.

Reading within the full contexts of the Quran, the principle is not to befriend non-Muslims on a genuine basis.

Note:
Friend = a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/friend

I don't know what you meant 'friend = Saddiq' to be. You merely have in mind this term 'friend = Saddiq' as a vacuous concept in mind which is far from what the Quran conveyed.

From the texts of the Quran there is no way a Muslim can be friend with a non-Muslim in term of its conventional meaning.
Muhammad even reserved bad Muslim feelings for his non-Muslim uncle Abu Lahab who mentored and took care of him.

Btw, I do no deny there are many people who claimed to be 'Muslims' and are very friendly with non-Muslims. In this case they are being genuinely friendly with other people because of their inherent human nature and not because it is done on a basis of Islamic principles regarding relation with non-Muslims.

In many other cases some Muslims are friendly to non-Muslims for some personal vested interest i.e. to convert them or for some other reasons but those Muslims who are well informed on the Islamic principles regarding relation with non-Muslims will never befriend non-Muslim on a genuine basis. They cannot do it [be friendly] because the Quran stipulated so, otherwise they will go to hell and not be rewarded on judgment day.
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Deflection as usual. I had produced verses [there are many others] that

1. commanded Muslims to be 'stern' with non-Muslims.
2. Muslims are not be friends [as allies in whatever] with non-Muslims.
3. Muslims are not be intimate friends with non-Muslims.
4. Muslims are to be wary of kins, relatives, brethren, relatives, parents of they are not Muslim.

Reading within the full contexts of the Quran, the principle is not to befriend non-Muslims on a genuine basis.

Note:
Friend = a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.
Friend | Define Friend at Dictionary.com

I don't know what you meant 'friend = Saddiq' to be. You merely have in mind this term 'friend = Saddiq' as a vacuous concept in mind which is far from what the Quran conveyed.

From the texts of the Quran there is no way a Muslim can be friend with a non-Muslim in term of its conventional meaning.
Muhammad even reserved bad Muslim feelings for his non-Muslim uncle Abu Lahab who mentored and took care of him.

Btw, I do no deny there are many people who claimed to be 'Muslims' and are very friendly with non-Muslims. In this case they are being genuinely friendly with other people because of their inherent human nature and not because it is done on a basis of Islamic principles regarding relation with non-Muslims.

In many other cases some Muslims are friendly to non-Muslims for some personal vested interest i.e. to convert them or for some other reasons but those Muslims who are well informed on the Islamic principles regarding relation with non-Muslims will never befriend non-Muslim on a genuine basis. They cannot do it [be friendly] because the Quran stipulated so, otherwise they will go to hell and not be rewarded on judgment day.
Saddiq is the Arabic word for friend.

Wali is not although it is true that in order to be a wali aperson should also be a saddiq.


The concept of Wali can best be seen in relation to never married women. Every woman until married is to have a Wali.
Some requirements of a wali:
Protect her from all harm
assist her in finding a husband
be certain that when she is ready for marriage, she does not get cheated in writing the Nikkah

Usually a woman's wali will be her father.

A wali has very specific duties and requires specific qualifications to be a wali A woman's wali is probably the best known to non-Muslims

https://asqfish.wordpress.com/2008/0...ponsibilities/

Lesser known is there are times a male is required to have a wali, for example a an Orphan, A first time married man who was not raised in a Muslim household.

While it is true a wali is a friend, but not all friends are walis. The English translation of wali as friend makes for confusion.

But it is clear, the Qur'an does not forbid us from having a non-Muslim as a Saddiq, a friend.
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Old 08-16-2015, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Saddiq is the Arabic word for friend.

Wali is not although it is true that in order to be a wali aperson should also be a saddiq.


The concept of Wali can best be seen in relation to never married women. Every woman until married is to have a Wali.
Some requirements of a wali:
Protect her from all harm
assist her in finding a husband
be certain that when she is ready for marriage, she does not get cheated in writing the Nikkah

Usually a woman's wali will be her father.

A wali has very specific duties and requires specific qualifications to be a wali A woman's wali is probably the best known to non-Muslims

https://asqfish.wordpress.com/2008/0...ponsibilities/

Lesser known is there are times a male is required to have a wali, for example a an Orphan, A first time married man who was not raised in a Muslim household.

While it is true a wali is a friend, but not all friends are walis. The English translation of wali as friend makes for confusion.

But it is clear, the Qur'an does not forbid us from having a non-Muslim as a Saddiq, a friend.
By the way, I am well aware the use of 'wali' as in 'protecting friend' which is mentioned many times in the Quran. The term 'wali' can also be used loosely as 'friends' in the normal sense - I'll put aside this point for the moment.

I have presented in various circumstances where the Quran discourage 'friendliness' [not as a 'wali' i.e. protecting friend but] in the normal sense of friendship, i.e.

Friend = a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.
Friend | Define Friend at Dictionary.com

Can you define your term 'Saddiq'

There are no verses in the Quran where the concept 'friend' is presented with 'feelings of affection or personal regard' of any relevant degree. Here is another beside the already mentioned. [mine]
58:14. Hast thou not seen those [Muslims] who take for friends a folk [infidels] with whom Allah is wroth [angry with]? They [infidels] are neither of you nor of them, and they [infidels] swear a false oath knowingly.

58:15. Allah hath prepared for them [infidels] a dreadful doom. Evil indeed is that which they [infidels] are wont [accustomed] to do.

Note there are many synonyms for the term 'friend' e.g.
Friend Synonyms, Friend Antonyms | Thesaurus.com
but the essence of a friend is with the following elements, i.e. feelings of affection or personal regard.

Perhaps what you meant a Muslim can be friend -'Saddiq' with non-Muslims in a negative sense, i.e. for the purpose of some bad intent against non-Muslims.

There are no solid provisions in the Quran for Muslims to be 'friends' with non-Muslims in positive terms i.e. based on feelings of affection or personal regard for the well-being of the non-Muslim. If there are, show me the relevant verses.

Again: There are many Muslims who are genuinely friendly with non-Muslims but they are doing that based on human values [being a better human being] and not as a duty of being a Muslim as dictated in the Quran.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:25 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
By the way, I am well aware the use of 'wali' as in 'protecting friend' which is mentioned many times in the Quran. The term 'wali' can also be used loosely as 'friends' in the normal sense - I'll put aside this point for the moment.

I have presented in various circumstances where the Quran discourage 'friendliness' [not as a 'wali' i.e. protecting friend but] in the normal sense of friendship, i.e.

Friend = a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.
Friend | Define Friend at Dictionary.com

Can you define your term 'Saddiq'

There are no verses in the Quran where the concept 'friend' is presented with 'feelings of affection or personal regard' of any relevant degree. Here is another beside the already mentioned. [mine]
58:14. Hast thou not seen those [Muslims] who take for friends a folk [infidels] with whom Allah is wroth [angry with]? They [infidels] are neither of you nor of them, and they [infidels] swear a false oath knowingly.

58:15. Allah hath prepared for them [infidels] a dreadful doom. Evil indeed is that which they [infidels] are wont [accustomed] to do.

Note there are many synonyms for the term 'friend' e.g.
Friend Synonyms, Friend Antonyms | Thesaurus.com
but the essence of a friend is with the following elements, i.e. feelings of affection or personal regard.

Perhaps what you meant a Muslim can be friend -'Saddiq' with non-Muslims in a negative sense, i.e. for the purpose of some bad intent against non-Muslims.

There are no solid provisions in the Quran for Muslims to be 'friends' with non-Muslims in positive terms i.e. based on feelings of affection or personal regard for the well-being of the non-Muslim. If there are, show me the relevant verses.

Again: There are many Muslims who are genuinely friendly with non-Muslims but they are doing that based on human values [being a better human being] and not as a duty of being a Muslim as dictated in the Quran.
Saddiq is the Arabic word for Friend in MSA, and Classical Arabic. It is virtually Identical with the English word friend. It also has additional meanings such as Honest,sincere and trustworthy.
The word Saddiq does not appear in the Qur'an, which is why I can state the Qur'an does not forbid us from having non-Muslims as friends.

It is also spelled as Sadeak the term My friend is Saddiqi or Sadeaky in Arabic Saddiq is written as صديق


the letters Seen, Alif, Dal,Ya, Qaf

Sahibi is also used for friend--it is a bit less sincere and usually used when referring to an acquaintance you get along with but are not very close, such as a customer if you have a store. That also is not found in the Qur'an
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Old 08-16-2015, 08:53 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
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"If you read from you link you will find it is required to marry the slaves and concubines before have sex with them"

Copy and paste the Quote that says that you must marry a slave or captive woman before you have sex with her.

What is said is that it is permissible to take a slave as well as a wife (have sex with both a slave and your wife).
Here: " it is permissible for you take concubines from among those whom you seized as war booty." Muhammed did that. A couple he 'married' and a couple he did not marry, he just had sex with them. You even posted the proof of that:

"The phrase “and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses — whom Allaah has given to you” [al-Ahzaab 33:50] means, it is permissible for you take concubines from among those whom you seized as war booty. He (Muhammed) took possession of Safiyyah and Juwayriyah and he freed them and married them; he took possession of Rayhaanah bint Sham’oon al-Nadariyyah and Maariyah al-Qibtiyyah, the mother of his son Ibraaheem (peace be upon them both), and they were among his concubines, may Allaah be pleased with them both."

It is sickening to note that according to Islam, Allah handed out women for the Muslim men to have as slaves and have sex with:
"The phrase “and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses — whom Allaah has given to you” [al-Ahzaab 33:50]

Muhammed never married all the slaves he had sex with!

"Zināʾ (زِنَاء) or zina (زِنًى or زِنًا) is an Islamic law concerning unlawful sexual relations between Muslims who are not married to one another through a Nikah."

MUSLIMS. This applies to MUSLIMS. Again, Muhammed had slaves that he had sex with and he was not married to.

"Multiple Scholars and authors have mentioned Maria al-Qibtiyya as one of the Concubines (out of four) of Muhammad. Islamic Law allows marital relations with free women who are taken as wives in marriage, and legally-acquired bondswomen (concubines), as both kinds of ladies are considered part of one's household.

"And who guard their modesty - Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy, But whoso craveth beyond that, such are transgressors."
—Qur'an 23:5-7

"The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not marry Mariyah al-Qibtiyyah, rather she was a Concubine who was given to him by al-Muqawqis, the ruler of Egypt. That took place after the treaty of al-Hudaybiyah. Mariyah al-Qibtiyyah was a Christian, then she became Muslim (may Allaah be pleased with her)."
—Ibn Saad, The Life of Prophet

"The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) lodged her – meaning Mariyah al-Qibtiyyah and her sister – with Umm Sulaym bint Milhaan, and the Messenger of Allaah (SallAllahu 'alayHi waSallam) entered upon them and told them about Islam. He took Mariyah as a concubine and moved her to some property of his in al-‘Awaali… and she became a good Muslim."
—Al-Tabaqaat al-Kubra, 1/134-135

"The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had four concubines, one of whom was Mariyah."
—Ibn al-Qayyim , Biography

Abu ‘Ubaydah said: He had four (concubines): Mariyah, who was the mother of his son Ibraaheem; Rayhaanah; another beautiful slave woman whom he acquired as a prisoner of war (Whom He later freed and married); and a slave woman who was given to him by (His wife) Zaynab bint Jahsh.
—Zaad al-Ma’aad, 1/114
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_al-Qibtiyya

Now, following Muhammed's example, it seems like if you have a slave and you are having sex with her (not married to her) and she becomes a Muslim you can keep having sex with her without marrying her after she becomes a Muslim.

I have given you proof after proof from the Quran and hadiths.

Muhammed owned slaves and had sex with slaves he was not married to and even had a child by one of his slaves.
Muhammed's men mass raped captive women in from of the husbands with Allah's full permission.
Allah gave out captive women to Muslim men to have sex with and use as slaves.
Several times in the Quran Allah OK's sex with slaves and captive women who are not the wives of the Muslims.
Muhammed 'married' a six year old child who certainly was not able to give informed consent!!
Muhammed sold women.
Muhammed gave out captive women like party favors.

I have given you proof of each of these things.
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Old 08-16-2015, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"If you read from you link you will find it is required to marry the slaves and concubines before have sex with them"

Copy and paste the Quote that says that you must marry a slave or captive woman before you have sex with her.

What is said is that it is permissible to take a slave as well as a wife (have sex with both a slave and your wife).
Here: " it is permissible for you take concubines from among those whom you seized as war booty." Muhammed did that. A couple he 'married' and a couple he did not marry, he just had sex with them. You even posted the proof of that:

"The phrase “and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses — whom Allaah has given to you” [al-Ahzaab 33:50] means, it is permissible for you take concubines from among those whom you seized as war booty. He (Muhammed) took possession of Safiyyah and Juwayriyah and he freed them and married them; he took possession of Rayhaanah bint Sham’oon al-Nadariyyah and Maariyah al-Qibtiyyah, the mother of his son Ibraaheem (peace be upon them both), and they were among his concubines, may Allaah be pleased with them both."

It is sickening to note that according to Islam, Allah handed out women for the Muslim men to have as slaves and have sex with:
"The phrase “and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses — whom Allaah has given to you” [al-Ahzaab 33:50]

Muhammed never married all the slaves he had sex with!

"Zināʾ (زِنَاء) or zina (زِنًى or زِنًا) is an Islamic law concerning unlawful sexual relations between Muslims who are not married to one another through a Nikah."

MUSLIMS. This applies to MUSLIMS. Again, Muhammed had slaves that he had sex with and he was not married to.

"Multiple Scholars and authors have mentioned Maria al-Qibtiyya as one of the Concubines (out of four) of Muhammad. Islamic Law allows marital relations with free women who are taken as wives in marriage, and legally-acquired bondswomen (concubines), as both kinds of ladies are considered part of one's household.

"And who guard their modesty - Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy, But whoso craveth beyond that, such are transgressors."
—Qur'an 23:5-7

"The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not marry Mariyah al-Qibtiyyah, rather she was a Concubine who was given to him by al-Muqawqis, the ruler of Egypt. That took place after the treaty of al-Hudaybiyah. Mariyah al-Qibtiyyah was a Christian, then she became Muslim (may Allaah be pleased with her)."
—Ibn Saad, The Life of Prophet

"The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) lodged her – meaning Mariyah al-Qibtiyyah and her sister – with Umm Sulaym bint Milhaan, and the Messenger of Allaah (SallAllahu 'alayHi waSallam) entered upon them and told them about Islam. He took Mariyah as a concubine and moved her to some property of his in al-‘Awaali… and she became a good Muslim."
—Al-Tabaqaat al-Kubra, 1/134-135

"The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had four concubines, one of whom was Mariyah."
—Ibn al-Qayyim , Biography

Abu ‘Ubaydah said: He had four (concubines): Mariyah, who was the mother of his son Ibraaheem; Rayhaanah; another beautiful slave woman whom he acquired as a prisoner of war (Whom He later freed and married); and a slave woman who was given to him by (His wife) Zaynab bint Jahsh.
—Zaad al-Ma’aad, 1/114
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_al-Qibtiyya

Now, following Muhammed's example, it seems like if you have a slave and you are having sex with her (not married to her) and she becomes a Muslim you can keep having sex with her without marrying her after she becomes a Muslim.

I have given you proof after proof from the Quran and hadiths.

Muhammed owned slaves and had sex with slaves he was not married to and even had a child by one of his slaves.
Muhammed's men mass raped captive women in from of the husbands with Allah's full permission.
Allah gave out captive women to Muslim men to have sex with and use as slaves.
Several times in the Quran Allah OK's sex with slaves and captive women who are not the wives of the Muslims.
Muhammed 'married' a six year old child who certainly was not able to give informed consent!!
Muhammed sold women.
Muhammed gave out captive women like party favors.

I have given you proof of each of these things.


What does Islam teach about concubines?
Abu Amina Elias • March 27, 2013

Quran and Pink Beads

By Abu Amina Elias

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Islam encourages the freeing of slaves and their joining in marriage as a means to improve their status in society. Concubinage was a form of marriage in Islam that was abolished when Muslim countries ended slavery. Islam forbids rape and prostitution in all cases as they are major sins in the category of adultery.

Most ancient societies allowed a form a concubinage in which a master would be intimate with his female slaves. According to the Bible, Solomon had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines (1 Kings 11:3). Concubinage (as-sirr) in Islam was a marriage (nikah) between a free man and his female slave. Ibn Mandhur states in his classical dictionary of the Arabic language:

وَالسِّرُّ : النِّكَاحُ ؛ لِأَنَّهُ يُكْتَمُ … وَالسُّرِّيَّةُ : الْجَارِيَةُ الْمُتَّخَذَةُ لِلْمَلِكِ وَالْجِمَاعِ

Concubinage, from the root sirr meaning secret, is marriage because it is kept hidden… The concubine is the servant girl adopted by the master with whom she is intimate.

Source: Lisan Al-Arab 7/167

This is unlike the concubinage of societies that treated such women as property without rights. Rather, Islam made the concubines like wives with similar rights to maintenance and good treatment. A man would not be allowed to share his concubine with other men, nor was he allowed to be intimate with another man’s concubine. In this respect, the Quran commands Muslims to marry (ankihu) their female slaves in the same way free women are married.

Allah said:

وَمَن لَّمْ يَسْتَطِعْ مِنكُمْ طَوْلًا أَن يَنكِحَ الْمُحْصَنَاتِ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ فَمِن مَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُم مِّن فَتَيَاتِكُمُ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِإِيمَانِكُم بَعْضُكُم مِّن بَعْضٍ فَانكِحُوهُنَّ بِإِذْنِ أَهْلِهِنَّ وَآتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ مُحْصَنَاتٍ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحَاتٍ وَلَا مُتَّخِذَاتِ أَخْدَانٍ

Whoever among you cannot find the means to marry free, believing women, then he may marry from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls, and Allah is most knowing about your faith. You believers are of one another. So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation according to what is acceptable. They should be chaste, neither of those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take secret lovers.

Surah An-Nisa 4:25

Muhammad Asad comments on this verse:

Literally meaning, “And not taking unto themselves secret love-companions.” This passage lays down in an unequivocal manner that sexual relations with female slaves are permitted only on the basis of marriage, and that in this respect there is no difference between them and free women. Consequently, concubinage is ruled out.

Source: Message of the Quran 4:25

What does Islam teach about concubines? | Faith in Allah
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Old 08-16-2015, 10:39 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
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What does Islam REALLY teach about slaves and captive women?

That it is OK to rape captive women in front of their husbands:

The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)


That you can ejaculate into captive women when you mass rape them...if allah wants them to become pregnant they will with or without your sperm:

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

Note: "we were interested in their prices", i.e., they wanted to sell them. Do Muslims sell their wives?

"We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

That it is OK to sell women:

"Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham/Hisham 693)

That it is OK to have sex with your slaves/captive women.

Quran 4:24 And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (slaves/captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned (married women, slaves, captive women), so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done)"

That Muhammed owned a slave woman that he had sex with and had a child by.

"Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" page 151
"He [the Lord of Alexandria] presented to the prophet Mariyah, her sister Sirin, a donkey and a mule which was white....The apostle of Allah liked Mariyah who was of white complexion and curly hair and pretty.... Then he cohabited with Mariyah as a handmaid and sent her to his property which he had acquired from Banu al-Nadir."

Tabari's History, volume 39, page 194:
"He (Muhammad) used to visit her (Mariyam) there and ordered her to veil herself, [but] he had intercourse with her by virtue of her being his property." The note (845) on this says, "That is, Mariyah was ordered to veil herself as did the Prophet's wives, but he did not marry her."


Muslims MAY marry one of their slaves if they can't afford a Muslim women.

Quran 4.025
If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess:


This is just a sample. No matter how much I copy and paste from the Quran and hadiths you will deny what is in front of you.

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” - Carl Sagan
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:27 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
Reputation: 435
"Islam encourages the freeing of slaves "

Not here:

Narrated Kurib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:47:765

In fact, nowhere in the Quran or hadiths do I find an order to free all slaves. And certainly Muhammed owned slaves.

Narrated Anas: The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer near Khaibar when it was still dark and then said, "Allahu-Akbar! Khaibar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a (hostile) nation (to fight), then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned." Then the inhabitants of Khaibar came out running on the roads. The Prophet had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives, She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet . The Prophet made her manumission as her 'Mahr'.
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:512 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 2:14:68 Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:447

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle was on a journey and he had a black slave called Anjasha, and he was driving the camels (very fast, and there were women riding on those camels). Allah's Apostle said, "Waihaka (May Allah be merciful to you), O Anjasha! Drive slowly (the camels) with the glass vessels (women)!"
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:73:182 see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:73:229 Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:73:221

Your apologetic article is garbage.

Another example:
"Concubinage, from the root sirr meaning secret, is marriage because it is kept hidden…"

Oh, it IS marriage. Except for 2 sentences later:
" Islam made the concubines like wives "

Another example:

"In this respect, the Quran commands Muslims to marry (ankihu) their female slaves in the same way free women are married."

But in reality, the Quran says:
"Whoever among you cannot find the means to marry free, believing women, then he may marry from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls," and that is even in the article!

Talk about dishonesty!!

This does provide an excellent example of how Muslims will say anything to protect Islam. They will use any method to pretend what Islam did say wasn't said.

Honesty is one of my moral values. This is what happens to Muslims when they fake reality:
" Honesty is the recognition of the fact that the unreal is unreal and can have no value, that neither love nor fame nor cash is a value if obtained by fraud—that an attempt to gain a value by deceiving the mind of others is an act of raising your victims to a position higher than reality, where you become a pawn of their blindness, a slave of their non-thinking and their evasions, while their intelligence, their rationality, their perceptiveness become the enemies you have to dread and flee—that you do not care to live as a dependent, least of all a dependent on the stupidity of others, or as a fool whose source of values is the fools he succeeds in fooling—that honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others." - Ayn Rand

Last edited by juju33312; 08-16-2015 at 12:46 PM.. Reason: add source
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