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Old 08-27-2015, 03:39 PM
 
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1.12.1 Earth and Heavens were Ripped Apart
Some apologists claim that the following verse is compatible with the Big Bang theory. But according to this theory, the Universe was formed about 13.8 billion years ago due to a rapid expansion from singularity. The earth was formed 4.54 billion years ago from accretion of debris that surrounded the precursor of the Sun. There was no "separation" of the "joined" earth and heavens as this verse suggests. It is, in fact, a repetition of cosmic egg myths in which an egg-like structure was split into two halves, the lower half forming the earth and the upper half forming the heaven.
((Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?)) Qur'an 21:30


Answer:
The adversaries of the Quran went to some ayat of the Quran that are Mutashabihat, which even Muslims themselves do not know their implications, and then such adversaries misinterpreted these ambiguous ayat as they like, then deduced that it is a mistake included in the Quran.

Therefore, the aya does not speak about the age of the universe, but it tells about the period taken by that previous sun, that had been before our sun, and the period taken by that sun to transforms into an earth; also the earth itself was very hot and it was, together with the rest of the planets: Mercury, Venus, Mars, etc, all these planets were one earth, and this earth was a flaming sun just like our present sun.
So the previous sun took 2000 years to transfrom from a sun into an earth with a cold crust.

The earth included in the solar system took 6000 years to become earth (and planets) suitable to bear life.

Qur'an 21:30
{ 30. Do not those who disbelieve know that the heavens and the earth [: the planets including the earth] were united [as one planet], then We split them up [into many pieces],
and We made – of water – every living thing [: the plant, animal and man] ?
Will they not then believe? a}
.................................................. .......
a The meaning: The One Who could tear up the earth with its tremendous mass, making it many pieces: isn’t He more Able to tear up their bodies and make them perish?
And the One Who created such big animals, as the elephant and the camel, out of [seminal] fluid drops: isn’t He more Able to restore them? So why do they deny Our might and ability to restore and resurrect bodies after their death?
This aya in fact has been interpreted in the book: The Universe and the Quran under the title of: Formation of the planets.
The Universe and the Quran
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:42 PM
 
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"The meaning: The One Who could tear up the earth with its tremendous mass, making it many pieces: isn’t He more Able to tear up their bodies and make them perish?"

How hateful is this!!? Tearing apart human bodies he created? How sadistic!

And why does this superbeing not able to write a book that is easily understood? All this interpreting of verses and rewording and problems with translation and the issue of allah telling an angel who tells Muhammed....leaves a lot of room for error! Why not just give everyone a well-written Quran in their own language that isn't full of nonsense and hate?
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Old 08-28-2015, 01:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
And why does this superbeing not able to write a book that is easily understood? All this interpreting of verses and rewording and problems with translation and the issue of allah telling an angel who tells Muhammed....leaves a lot of room for error! Why not just give everyone a well-written Quran in their own language that isn't full of nonsense and hate?
The Quran was revealed in Arabic, in order that the Arab to whom the Arabian apostle Mohammed was sent; it should be in Arabic so that people would understand it.
To each nation, God sent an apostle: being one of them and speaks their language so that they may understand him.

But in fact, they do not fear of the Next Life, or else they would seek to understand it.
The Quran was revealed in fluent language, that astonished people who heard it.

Quran 74: 52-56
{74: 52. But every man of them desires to be given [in order to believe] open pages [from God, on which is written: 'Believe in Mohammed; for he is the messenger of God.']

53. No, [he will not believe eventhough We bring down to him pages from heaven], but [actually] they fear not the Next Life [because they believe not in it.]

54. No d, [but] the [Quran] is an admonition.

55. So whoever wills, shall receive its admonition e.

56. But they cannot receive admonition, unless God wills [to guide them] f; God’s [punishment] is Worthy to be warded off g, and He is Worthy to grant forgiveness h.}
.................................................. ...............
d They even fear not Our portents, because We have not brought to them some dreadful portents like what We sent against Pharaoh and his people, like the staff of Moses, the locust, the frog, the insect, the blood, and others.
e It means: Whoso likes to receive admonition, then let him receive its admonition.
Similar to this in meaning, is His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 54: 17, which means:
(And We have made the Quran easy [to you] for admonition. Is there, then, any that will be admonished [with it?])
f Therefore, anyone whom God likes to guide to the way of the truth, He removes the cover from his heart and the veil from his sight, so he will listen to the Quran and understand its meanings, and so he will receive admonition and believe, or else he will not.
g By avoiding the disobedience.
h So seek after His forgiveness, by repenting and doing the righteous work.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly, the interpreter of the Quran and the Bible.

Last edited by roar; 08-28-2015 at 02:36 PM..
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Old 08-28-2015, 02:28 PM
 
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1.12.2 Universe was Made from Smoke by Contraction

Neither was there any stage of formation of the Universe that involved smoke (carbon particles suspended as a result of combustion) nor did the earth and heavens "come" together at any point of time. Earth is a part of this Universe and has developed within it.

(Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient. Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and We decked the nether heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Knower.)
Qur'an 41:11-12


Answer:
Nothing in the aya is said concerning the universe; but they misinterpreted this ambiguous aya as do they like, so that they considered the (heaven) as the universe.
While as we explained in the previous posts that the heavens when they are mentioned alone, and when the heavens are mentioned together with the earth, when the heavens mentioned before mentioning the earth or after the earth, and when the heaven comes in singular: all these have different meaning.

So here is the explanation of this aya:
Qur'an 41:11-12
{ 11. Then he tended to [build] the sky [of the earth] and it had been smoke i; He said to the [sky] and to the earth: "Come, both of you [to the gravitation force of the sun], willingly or loath." The two said: "We [all] have come obedient."

12. And He separated them into seven firmaments j in two days k, and inspired into each firmament its 'amr' [: its race of genies l], and We adorned the nearest firmament [to your earth] with [meteors m to be as] lamps and [for] protection n; such [creation and formation] is the ordaining of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.}
.................................................. .......................
i Which is the smoke that emerged from the earth when it was flaming; and that smoke was a mixture of seven gases.
j It means: He separated and divided that smoke until it became seven gaseous layers.
k i.e. in a period of two thousands of the earth years.
l i.e. He inspired to those genies and souls inhabiting these seven firmaments the administration of their affairs and to seek after their provision and livelihood by themselves.
The indication, that these gaseous firmaments are inhabited the creatures of the genie, is His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 23: 17, which means:
(And We have created above you seven [gaseous] layers [for the dwelling of the genie]; and We are not heedless of creatures [neither of genies nor of humans.])
m Which flash by night and light the sky.
n i.e. And We made it as a protection from devils lest they should ascend to the ethereal heavens.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly, the interpreter of the Quran and the Bible.
The Universe and the Quran
================================================== ===

Therefore, the origin of the atmosphere of the earth was from the earth itself, and that is when the earth was very hot in its early formation, gases and smoke emerged from inside it, which filled its atmosphere, then because of the difference in weight of such gases, the light gas raised up and the heavier gases came under the light gases until seven gaseous distinct layers were formed in the region above the cloud, which is the stratosphere, which is the calm part of the atmosphere where there is no wind to mix such gases.
So the atmosphere of the earth in the beginning was smoke which was a mixture of seven gases.
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Old 08-28-2015, 05:01 PM
 
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"The Quran was revealed in Arabic, "

CLASSIC arabic, which almost no Muslim speaks fluently.

If the Quran is so important, threatening eternal torture and all, why not produce it in every language and have it miraculously update, allah being so good at miracles and all? Why cause the need to translate it and create all these problems? Something is very fishy here. This god that can create the universe can't make copies of his one and only book that everyone can understand and instead gives us a book that no one can properly translate! And, somehow, for quite a while, almost no Muslim had a copy of this book! Allah can't get a publisher? And instead of sending it down directly, allah has to have this angel send it down to a really evil guy who is, get ready for it...illiterate!! Why not have James Patterson be born early and have HIM write the book? Or, write it himself? It would take half a second to write it and make a trillion copies in different languages!
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Old 08-28-2015, 08:59 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"The Quran was revealed in Arabic, "

CLASSIC arabic, which almost no Muslim speaks fluently.

If the Quran is so important, threatening eternal torture and all, why not produce it in every language and have it miraculously update, allah being so good at miracles and all? Why cause the need to translate it and create all these problems? Something is very fishy here. This god that can create the universe can't make copies of his one and only book that everyone can understand and instead gives us a book that no one can properly translate! And, somehow, for quite a while, almost no Muslim had a copy of this book! Allah can't get a publisher? And instead of sending it down directly, allah has to have this angel send it down to a really evil guy who is, get ready for it...illiterate!! Why not have James Patterson be born early and have HIM write the book? Or, write it himself? It would take half a second to write it and make a trillion copies in different languages!
'Very fishy' just might be an understatement, it's glaring.
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Old 08-28-2015, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roar View Post
The Quran was revealed in Arabic, in order that the Arab to whom the Arabian apostle Mohammed was sent; it should be in Arabic so that people would understand it.
To each nation, God sent an apostle: being one of them and speaks their language so that they may understand him.
The above is what is stated in the Quran.
The intention of what is stated in the Quran [Allah said so] is the Quran was NEVER meant for believers foreign to the Arabian peninsula. Other Nations were assigned their own messengers who spoke their own language.
Therefore those Muslims who spread Islam out of the Arabian peninsula went against the intent of Allah and should be punished.

If God truly exists, then the above is applicable.

But God does not exist, therefore the Quran was never God's word but rather the work of one man or a group of humans with some personal interests.
Because it is the work of humans, unfortunately it open up room for some evil element of humans to be included in the Quran in the guised as words of God.
The evil elements therein manifest as reality ever since to the present where SOME Muslims act on those evil and violent elements. This is glaringly evident from the real evil and violence that are committed all over the world by Muslims.

The Quran as developed by humans was solely based on eschatological, soteriological and personal interests of the authors. As such it was NEVER be intended to present as a scientific paper.
To make any scientific association with the Quran is very intellectually immature.
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Old 08-29-2015, 02:39 PM
 
99 posts, read 54,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"The Quran was revealed in Arabic, "

CLASSIC arabic, which almost no Muslim speaks fluently.

If the Quran is so important, threatening eternal torture and all, why not produce it in every language and have it miraculously update, allah being so good at miracles and all? Why cause the need to translate it and create all these problems? Something is very fishy here. This god that can create the universe can't make copies of his one and only book that everyone can understand and instead gives us a book that no one can properly translate! And, somehow, for quite a while, almost no Muslim had a copy of this book! Allah can't get a publisher? And instead of sending it down directly, allah has to have this angel send it down to a really evil guy who is, get ready for it...illiterate!! Why not have James Patterson be born early and have HIM write the book? Or, write it himself? It would take half a second to write it and make a trillion copies in different languages!
Very strange indeed how these atheists ask for impossibilities.
God answers the prayer, but if you ask the impossibility like e.g. let the night be day and the day be night, or let tree root be above and leaves under the ground, or let water move in the air not on the ground, or let man walks on his head not on his foot, etc.
So one of such things: let the book be in all languages.
When the Prophet was sent to Mecca, its people denied him, in spite of that he spoke their language. And you want the book be in all languages, and this is not logical. But its meaning will be explained to all people.

In addition, there is another point in the Quran; a large part of it had been non-understandable to people at that time; it will be known later on after a long time: in this generation. So that the interpretation will be an extension and blessing.

Anyhow, Prophet Mohammed was commanded to warn his nearest clan, then his tribe then his city then other cities in Hijaz then all Arabia, then his message was to all mankind and geni kind.

Moreover, his people asked the impossibilities of him, but they were not granted their request; so they demanded of him many objective miracles, and he was not given any miracle other than the Quran only as a scientific and language miracle which they could not bring about any similar to it.

Quran 17: 90-93
{ 90. And the [associaters among the Arab] say: "We will not believe you [Mohammed] till you cause, for us, a [water] spring to gush forth from the earth."

91. "Or you have a garden of date palms and grapes, and cause rivers to flow, amidst its [trees, after] gushing forth [of the springs c.]"

92. "Or you make the sky to fall down, as you claim, upon us as pieces [of stones]; or you bring [us] God and the angels before us [to meet us and we see them] as a warrant [to testify to us that God has sent you.]"

93. "Or you have a house decorated [with gold, like the house of Solomon], or you ascend up into heaven, and even then we will not believe your ascension till you bring down for us a book that we can read [your authenticity, so that if it is true, we shall believe.]"

Say [O Mohammed]: "Glory be to my Lord! d Am I not other than a mortal [like other mortals and], a messenger [like other messengers!?]"
.................................................. .......................
c i.e. at first the water springs gush forth from the earth, then the water flows in the rivers.
d Such expression is used for astonishment, which means: I surprise of you and of the miracles which you suggest.
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Old 08-29-2015, 03:03 PM
 
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"Very strange indeed how these atheists ask for impossibilities."

I thought nothing was impossible for allah. I'm not asking for anything. I am asking why.

"And you want the book be in all languages, and this is not logical."

Why not? I am not asking for this because I think the Quran is evil nonsense. I am asking WHY allah would not give everyone a copy of his book in their own language and refrain from causing all this confusion with translation even between Muslims!

"In addition, there is another point in the Quran; a large part of it had been non-understandable to people at that time;"

Really? What part is that? This seems like game playing, Why would allah play games and toy with us?

Do you think this is good:

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”
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Old 08-29-2015, 03:14 PM
 
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I should here explain an important point:

God does not want the disbelievers to believe, but He misguides them because they are wrong-doers;

and therefore, they do not accept the monotheism and the exclusive devotion to God and the belief in the Quran and in the Next Life.

This meaning is so obvious for anyone who studies the Quran in order to understand it, not like these atheists who want according to their program and the books of the atheist which they consecrate; such atheists read the Quran in order to disprove it, and they will be frustrated and lose.

But the task of the apostle or messenger is only to convey the message, so that all of them will be warned; lest they should not say in the Next Life: God, why didn't you send us a messenger to warn us; we should have believed then!

To prove this, there are a large number of the Quran ayat with this meaning, like these ayat:

First 2: 7-8
{ 7. Surely, those who deny [you, Mohammed, and the Quran]; it is the same to them – whether you warn them or you warn them not – they will not believe.a

8. God has set a seal [of "Rayn" which is the rust] upon their hearts and [deafness] on their hearing, and on their sights is a veil [lest they should convert]b, and there awaits them a grievous chastisement.}
.................................................. ................................
a Because they are wrong-doers: they wrong people; and God does not guide the wrong-doer, but misguides him.
The indication of this is His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 14: 27 which means: (God misguides the wrong-doer, and God does what He pleases.)

b because they are wrong-doers, and God does not guide the wrong-doer.


Second And these ayat 36: 10-11
{ 10. It is the same to them whether you [Mohammed] warn them or you warn them not, they believe not e.

11. You [Mohammed] only warn him who follows the admonition [of the Quran]f and fear [God] Most Gracious in secret g, so give him the good news of forgiveness and excellent reward [in the Next Life.]}
.................................................. ..................
e In you, Mohammed, on account of their ignorance, stubbornness and their following their grandfathers blindly.
f It means: The one who takes advantage of your warning, is only the one who follows the Quran, i.e. who receives admonition of the Quran.
g i.e. in private, when none of people is attending.

Third: And this aya is very clear in this respect:
4: 88
{88. How is it with you [Muslims] that you have become two parties [with two opinions] concerning the hypocrites a, while in fact God has immersed them [in their sins b] because of [their transgression on people and the sins] that they earned?
Do you [Muslims] desire [then] to guide [to the Islam and invite to it] those whom God has misguided [because of their wrong-doing]?
Whom God misguides [from the way of truth], you [men] will not find for him any way [to be saved and be guided aright.]}
.................................................. .................
a One party are certain that those men are believers, and the other party are certain that they are disbelievers.
Had they truly become Muslims, then they would have come back to you; but they in fact are disbelievers, so don't decide that they are Muslims.
b i.e. God has drowned them in their sins and transgression.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly, the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible.

Last edited by roar; 08-29-2015 at 03:44 PM..
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