U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-26-2015, 01:22 AM
 
4,413 posts, read 1,642,332 times
Reputation: 1529

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue3 View Post
That is an exceptional answer to my question, GoCardinals, and I would give you positive rating but I just gave you one for your earlier answer. C-D wants me to wait to give you another one. So I owe you one. Thank you.

Your answer matches one given by Woodrow LI on another thread (in March 2015) that talks about martyrdom, and both your answer and his are very clear: Allah is the only one who can decide who will and who will not be granted martyrdom. SO unless someone disagrees, let's move ahead with that as the right answer.

And thank you for the reference to Quran 49:9. I found it and read it.

Seems to me that in that paragraph (I'm not sure what you call it - sorry) both sides could honestly be convinced they are right; both sides could believe they were the 'just' side. Therefore, both sides would claim their deceased were the martyrs - just like the example I gave above. But in reality, as you point out, only Allah really knows which man he will grant martyrdom - if indeed He grants it to either of them. (I suppose He might not grant it to either side.)

So here is my next question: In some other religions (like Christianity, I think, and maybe the Jewish religion), it is considered blasphemy to claim to make a decision that only God can make. Is it the same way for those who practice Islam? Would Allah be displeased with a human who presumed to declare someone a martyr when it really isn't a human's decision to make?

(And I note that an earlier poster - I think it was Continuum - said that humans ought to stop using that term for several different reasons.)

Thanks, R-3
I am not sure if I am qualified to answer this question or if I even have the knowledge to answer it according to your satisfaction but I will attempt to answer based on what I know.

And I will split my answer in two parts.

1 - Specific to martyrdom scenario.

There is a hadeeth (saying of the prophet pbuh), and the closest meaning of which is,

"Don't defame the dead, as the deceased one has reached his/her destiny".

Based on this hadeeth, Muslims in general do NOT defame the dead, no matter if he was a Muslim or not. And no matter if they liked or hated him while he/she was alive.
So, saying someone is in hell or he is going to hell, would come into this category.

If you notice, the hadeeth does not prohibit Muslims to praise or remember someone who has died in good words.

So Muslims pray and wish their deceased ones in good words, and saying that someone is a martyr is a form of such praise.

I guess I need your attention here.

A Muslim saying that someone is going to hell is taking a lot of risk in acquiring Allah's wrath, but saying that someone is a martyr is actually not a very bad thing as you are expressing good wishes for the one who has left us.

When I was growing up, I remember elders in my family used to pray that, "O' Allah, I don't need your justice, I need your mercy. (Because if a true justice is done to me, I may get into trouble.)

From the Islamic perspective, our accountability could be very. very tough. As the Quran mentions in 99:7 and 99:8. And in contrast, Quran has also mentioned it on various occasions, glad tidings and good news for those who have honestly tried to live a life as ordained by Allah.

And if you notice, every human being makes mistakes. And Allah is merciful. So the idea is to beg for mercy not only for ourselves but for others too - and that's why, IMO, calling someone a martyr is not sin in comparison to issuing a verdict that someone is going to go hell.


2 - Your question about Muslims making a decision that only God can make (besides the topic of martyr that we discussed above).

I don't think Muslims in general make any such decisions. For example, A Muslim will only end up as a laughing stock if he says, OK, today I will make the sun rise from the West instead of the East.

I would like to read any particular example that you may have in mind where a Muslim has made a decision that only Allah makes. I mean, from an Islamic point of view, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Islam is submission to Allah, not making decisions on his behalf.

And even if we do make decisions instead of Allah, it will only be a hot air from the mouth. We cannot back up our decision, made on Allah's behalf, with a practical action.

------------------------------------------------

And on a side note that I would like to touch slightly in regards to reference from Quran.

When you open the Quran, the first chapter is a short praise to God and praise for guidance.

And the rest of Quran is the answer to that prayer of Guidance.

And most importantly, when you look at the first few versus of the second chapter (when the answer starts), you will notice that Quran is a book of guidance for those who have nine qualities.

So if one wants to truly benefit from Quran, then he should start by bringing these nine qualities in him/herself - Otherwise, one may keep wandering as he may not meet the basic prerequisites.


And Continuum .. Your challenge is to find these 9 qualities. They are mentioned in from 2:2 to 2:5.
So next time when you open Quran, be mindful that it's a book of guidance for those who posses or yearn to posses these 9 qualities. It will also give you an indicator whether it's a source of guidance to you or not.

Last edited by GoCardinals; 08-26-2015 at 01:34 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-26-2015, 01:52 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
And Continuum .. Your challenge is to find these 9 qualities. They are mentioned in from 2:2 to 2:5.
So next time when you open Quran, be mindful that it's a book of guidance for those who posses or yearn to posses these 9 qualities. It will also give you an indicator whether it's a source of guidance to you or not.
2:5. These depend on guidance from their Lord. These [Muslims] are the successful.
All the qualities are depended on guidance from their Lord.
The fact is it is impossible for God to exists as real.

The most critical pursuit of a human being is to understand the truth of reality.
The truth can only be understand via critical thinking not by a dictate of a God that is impossible to exists.


My approach is in studying the Quran is based on the following;

1. Philosophy of theism -God
2. Philosophy of religion.
3. The founder of Islam was Muhammad.
4. Muhammad [human being] recited a Quran over 23 years.

When I read the Quran, it is against the above elements and other essential elements. It is not by a dictate of a God that is impossible to exists.
Basically what I want to know is why did Muhammad or a group of men came up with a book that culminate in the Quran as it is today and is a catalyst that inspired SOME Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence onto humanity?

Those who read on the basis of what God is trying to dictate is like reading a Manual of How to be a Zombie, Robot or machine. Some who are influenced by the evil laden verses will go forth to commit terrible evils an violence. This is a fact you cannot deny.

So.. GoCardinals .. your challenge is to 'Know Thyself' and how to be a progressive human being and contribute whatever you can to Team-humanity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2015, 02:21 AM
 
4,413 posts, read 1,642,332 times
Reputation: 1529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
2:5. These depend on guidance from their Lord. These [Muslims] are the successful.
All the qualities are depended on guidance from their Lord.
The fact is it is impossible for God to exists as real.

The most critical pursuit of a human being is to understand the truth of reality.
The truth can only be understand via critical thinking not by a dictate of a God that is impossible to exists.


My approach is in studying the Quran is based on the following;

1. Philosophy of theism -God
2. Philosophy of religion.
3. The founder of Islam was Muhammad.
4. Muhammad [human being] recited a Quran over 23 years.

When I read the Quran, it is against the above elements and other essential elements. It is not by a dictate of a God that is impossible to exists.
Basically what I want to know is why did Muhammad or a group of men came up with a book that culminate in the Quran as it is today and is a catalyst that inspired SOME Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence onto humanity?

Those who read on the basis of what God is trying to dictate is like reading a Manual of How to be a Zombie, Robot or machine. Some who are influenced by the evil laden verses will go forth to commit terrible evils an violence. This is a fact you cannot deny.

So.. GoCardinals .. your challenge is to 'Know Thyself' and how to be a progressive human being and contribute whatever you can to Team-humanity.
As you confessed, you may not have the pre-requisites or any wish to acquire the pre-requisites to understand and benefit from quran, pretty much throws off your perception that "Quran has some evil laden verses and based on those versus, some true followers of Islam are doing evil things".

You pretty much ignore the huge political influence used by those in power to wrongly interpret the religion and make it as a uniting force among groups and put them against each other to again political benefits.

As they say, Islam is perfect, Muslims are not.

And perhaps that's one of the reasons why God has created hell. Some people (whether Muslims are not) will make choices that may land them in Hell.

And Quran is a guidance to be used in making intelligent choices. If someone uses it to wrongly interpret and to do and justify evil things, then he/she is simply writing his own destiny REGARDLESS of whether is he is a Muslim or not.

As I mentioned above, from the Islamic perspective, there is a very tough judgement for every human for all the good and all the evil actions done by him/her (Whether Muslim or not). As mentioned in Quran 99:7 and 99:8.

So just because someone is a Muslim, may not automatically give him/her a free pass to heaven. Islamic faith should be supported by actions of good deeds, passing of the judgement and with mercy of Allah to be blessed with Paradise.

"Just because I am a Muslim, I will go straight to heaven - No questions asked!".

^^
There is NO such concept exist in the Islamic doctrine.

Now, you can imagine what may happen to those HUMANS who have used Quranic versus to justify their evil actions?

Someone in this life may claim to be a Muslim and do injustice to others and do evil things and he could get away with it * BUT * there will be no place to hide and no where to run on the judgement day. Now think about the so called "ISIS". You think they will by pass Allah's judgement? Think again.


You should open up to the possibility that since you don't posses or wish to posses the pre-requisites of a book, you may not understand things mentioned in it.

It's like you are a student of Biology trying to read and interpret a PhD level book on Quantum Physics.

Last edited by GoCardinals; 08-26-2015 at 03:04 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2015, 03:25 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
As you confessed, you may not have the pre-requisites or any wish to acquire the pre-requisites to understand and benefit from quran, pretty much throws off your perception that "Quran has some evil laden verses and based on those versus, some true followers of Islam are doing evil things".
This is a crazy idea.
I have read 2:2-5 and there is nothing relevant for any rational and critical thinker in getting to the truths surrounding the Quran.
It is more like one must a Nazi fanatic to understand the Mein Kampf, where all one need is the specific ideological zeal.

Quote:
You pretty much ignore the huge political influence used by those in power to
wrongly interpret the religion and make it as a uniting force among groups and
put them against each other to again political benefits.
I have analyzed all the various factor that are related to religion-related evils and violence. The political factor is a significant one.
However the fact that the Quran itself is in such a position that it enable politicians and other groups to use it for their purpose is the problem.

Without the Quran, there will be no ISIS, ALQaeda, Boko Haram and other spreading evil and violence all over the world.
Without the Quran, there will still be evil and violence by evil prone people but they will not be as horrible as ISIS and the likes.

This is the first time we see such extensive cultural genocide [destroying of anitiquities, muzeums] in the modern era. This can be directly linked to the verses in the Quran. There are many evils and violence that are committed in the name of Islam and Allah based on the Quran that has nothing to do with politics.

Quote:
As they say, Islam is perfect, Muslims are not.

And perhaps that's one of the reasons why God has created hell. Some people (whether Muslims are not) will make choices that may land them in Hell.

And Quran is a guidance to be used in making intelligent choices. If someone uses it to wrongly interpret and to do and justify evil things, then he/she is simply writing his own destiny REGARDLESS of whether is he is a Muslim or not.
You still cannot see it and that is expected due to the psychological state of most believers.

Muslims are as normal as any other human beings based on basic human nature. Take a Muslim out of Islam and he will be a normal human being just like others.

The Quran is not perfect!
The Quran as I have read the 6236 verses therein is an ideological book by some man and contain a high % of evil laden elements.
I have spent more than 8 months reading and researching on the Quran on full time basis, so I should have a reasonable grasp of it.
These evil elements in the Quran influence SOME [not all] Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence upon non-Muslims and even Muslims.



Quote:
As I mentioned above, from the Islamic perspective, there is a very tough judgement for every human for all the good and all the evil actions done by him/her (Whether Muslim or not). As mentioned in Quran 99:7 and 99:8.

So just because someone is a Muslim, may not automatically give him/her a free pass to heaven. Islamic faith should be supported by actions of good deeds, passing of the judgement and with mercy of Allah to be blessed with Paradise.

Now, you can imagine what may happen to those HUMANS who have used Quranic versus to justify their evil actions?

You should open up to the possibility that since you don't posses or wish to posses the pre-requisites of a book, you may not understand things mentioned in it.

It's like you are a student of Biology trying to read and interpret a PhD level book on Quantum Physics.
I presume you are a good human being.
It is of no issue if we are referring to yourself as an individual Muslim reading the Quran as a good person amongst 80-90% of Muslims.
What is of concern to humanity is the 20% of Muslim which is 300 millions around the world and their exposure to the evil laden verses.
Out of this pool of potential of 300 million all we need a one, two or up to 20 to cause real havoc to humanity. The reality is we have up to more than 10,000s or more with ISIS and others. This is really frightening and there is no central authority to tell they are wrong in their interpretation of the verses.

I predict if we get rid of ISIS now, some other groups will crop up in the world, which could be Pakistan, Saudi Indonesia, Thailand, etc. because there is an element of evil ethos within the religion that trigger evil prone Muslims to commit evils and violence.


The solution I see is humanity must continually be critical of Islam the religion -Muslims not significant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2015, 04:20 AM
 
Location: Secure, Undisclosed
1,984 posts, read 1,292,485 times
Reputation: 3702
Okay... I'm gonna need LOTS of coffee today...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2015, 09:58 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
Reputation: 435
Rescue3....LOL. no decaf for you!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2015, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Secure, Undisclosed
1,984 posts, read 1,292,485 times
Reputation: 3702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
A Muslim attempting to answer your question.

"If you are a Muslim, how do you suppose Allah would be likely to think of people who use promises of martyrdom - which only He can award - to get such young, naive people to do such bad things - and why? "

As Allaah(saws) is beyond all Human attributes I have no way of knowing what he would think about anything. but for a person to claim he can offer someone Martyrdom, he is claiming the ability to do something he does not have the power to do.

From what I understand is if a person presents a false statement about Islam and a person commits a sin/crime/error as a result of what the person said, that person will receive the same punishment as the person who does the act. The person who told the falsehood is an accomplice of the person doing the act and equally guilty. the person doing the act is also guilty of a related act. The failure to verify the truth of what he was told. All Muslims are obligated to question all things, including interpretations of the Qur'an. As we have no ordained Clergy we have no Human authority that has the right to state their interpretation is anything more than an opinion.

A more simple answer: a person leading a naive person to do evil, is as guilty as if he had done the act himself. Just my opinion Astagfirullah (If I am wrong may Allaah forgive me)
Bear with me - I have to take these in order...

Woodrow LI: Thank you for contribution; it is exceptionally clear. What I get from your post is:

1. No human can assure another that the second person is destined for Paradise.
2. It is your understanding, as a Muslim, that if a person makes a false statement about Islam that causes a second person to commit a crime, sin or error, then the first person is as guilty as the person who goes forth and commits the crime, sin or mistake.
3. The second person committed an additional mistake of not verifying he was told the truth by the first person.
4. There is no ordained clergy in Islam, only people who can give opinions.

I appreciate this input; it is exceptionally helpful. Can I kindly ask for clarification of points 3 and 4? Point 3: Where would I find the details about a Muslim's obligation to verify everything, including interpretations of the Quran? Point 4 - My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that Sunnis have Imams and Shia have both Mullahs and Ayatollahs - all of whom I would have guessed to be ordained clergy. From your perspective, can you help me understand these three positions (and any others that might fall into similar categories)?

Thanks again; excellent post. R-3.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2015, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Secure, Undisclosed
1,984 posts, read 1,292,485 times
Reputation: 3702
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I am not sure if I am qualified to answer this question or if I even have the knowledge to answer it according to your satisfaction but I will attempt to answer based on what I know.

And I will split my answer in two parts.

1 - Specific to martyrdom scenario.

There is a hadeeth (saying of the prophet pbuh), and the closest meaning of which is,

"Don't defame the dead, as the deceased one has reached his/her destiny".

Based on this hadeeth, Muslims in general do NOT defame the dead, no matter if he was a Muslim or not. And no matter if they liked or hated him while he/she was alive.
So, saying someone is in hell or he is going to hell, would come into this category.

If you notice, the hadeeth does not prohibit Muslims to praise or remember someone who has died in good words.

So Muslims pray and wish their deceased ones in good words, and saying that someone is a martyr is a form of such praise.

I guess I need your attention here.

A Muslim saying that someone is going to hell is taking a lot of risk in acquiring Allah's wrath, but saying that someone is a martyr is actually not a very bad thing as you are expressing good wishes for the one who has left us.

When I was growing up, I remember elders in my family used to pray that, "O' Allah, I don't need your justice, I need your mercy. (Because if a true justice is done to me, I may get into trouble.)

From the Islamic perspective, our accountability could be very. very tough. As the Quran mentions in 99:7 and 99:8. And in contrast, Quran has also mentioned it on various occasions, glad tidings and good news for those who have honestly tried to live a life as ordained by Allah.

And if you notice, every human being makes mistakes. And Allah is merciful. So the idea is to beg for mercy not only for ourselves but for others too - and that's why, IMO, calling someone a martyr is not sin in comparison to issuing a verdict that someone is going to go hell.


2 - Your question about Muslims making a decision that only God can make (besides the topic of martyr that we discussed above).

I don't think Muslims in general make any such decisions. For example, A Muslim will only end up as a laughing stock if he says, OK, today I will make the sun rise from the West instead of the East.

I would like to read any particular example that you may have in mind where a Muslim has made a decision that only Allah makes. I mean, from an Islamic point of view, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Islam is submission to Allah, not making decisions on his behalf.

And even if we do make decisions instead of Allah, it will only be a hot air from the mouth. We cannot back up our decision, made on Allah's behalf, with a practical action.

------------------------------------------------

And on a side note that I would like to touch slightly in regards to reference from Quran.

When you open the Quran, the first chapter is a short praise to God and praise for guidance.

And the rest of Quran is the answer to that prayer of Guidance.

And most importantly, when you look at the first few versus of the second chapter (when the answer starts), you will notice that Quran is a book of guidance for those who have nine qualities.

So if one wants to truly benefit from Quran, then he should start by bringing these nine qualities in him/herself - Otherwise, one may keep wandering as he may not meet the basic prerequisites...
GoCardinals - that was very eloquently stated - thank you. Truly beautiful. And now I think I get it.

Wishing good things for the deceased is a good thing, including wishes for the privileges that accompany martyrdom. Saying bad things about the deceased is not only impolite, it is actually addressed in the hadith as something you should not do. (I didn't know that.) So when I read about some government or group or family referring to one who died in terms of martyrdom, I should really understand it in terms of them wishing the deceased well and hoping that Allah will accept the person as a martyr - not stating it as a fact. Got it. Thank you. Especially the story about what your elders prayed for - that makes much more sense now.

With respect to humans making decisions for Allah, I will give you an example of the kinds of things I am struggling with, but I will not use names. In 1985, a 16 year old boy was kidnapped in Beirut. His father, a pious Shia, was being held by a Shi'ite militia because he had been in an accident that hurt a militia leader's family member. The boy was told that he needed to drive a car into an Israeli position and blow himself up in order for his father to be released. He was given a bulletproof vest and told it would probably save his life (it would not have). He was also told by a Shi'ite Sheikh, who was a cleric at a mosque, that if he died he would be a martyr and he would go directly to Paradise. The boy was not very pious and did not believe the Sheikh, but did the mission anyway because he wanted his father to be freed. (Fortunately, the boy was caught before he got to the target and survived.) That same Sheikh blessed the similar operation of another boy, aged 14, who wanted to go blow himself up specifically because it would make him a martyr. The head of the militia referred him to the cleric, who reviewed and blessed the mission, and wrote a letter telling the militia commander that the boy would indeed be a martyr, so it was okay to send him on this mission. (I have a copy of the letter.) The boy was allowed to proceed. Unfortunately, that little boy died in his own explosion. In both cases, the religious adviser, called a Sheikh (variously spelled), decided that carrying out the act would confer martyr status upon each of the two boys. The first one did not believe the Sheikh, while the second one did.

If you would like to give me your ideas on these two cases, I would be very interested and respectful of your thoughts. I know you said humans making these promises would be like so much hot air coming from a human, but this guy was a cleric at the local mosque. Lots of people took his words very seriously. If you would like, perhaps you want to address these two cases specifically. As I said, you are very eloquent in describing your beliefs.

Finally, thank you for the description of the Quran's first two chapters and the nine qualities - I had no idea about that. But it sure explains how people who are not Muslims can pull a quote or sentence or paragraph from some part of the Quran and use it in a way that a well-studied Muslim would not. Thanks for that insight.

(I'd give you more positive reps, but I'm still not allowed to yet. I'll drop one on you unexpectedly some day. Thanks again!)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2015, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Secure, Undisclosed
1,984 posts, read 1,292,485 times
Reputation: 3702
Okay Continuum - I think I got it. (Took four cups of coffee, but I think I finally got it.) Thank you for your thoughtful responses and commentary.

I'm not going to do that 'quote' thing with all of your responses because, frankly, I don't know how to do multiple quotes from three different pages. (I can't even do multiple quotes from one page - I am THAT technically incompetent.)

But I read every one of your posts - several times - and came to the conclusion that you and I are working on different issues.

The goal of this exercise for me, a criminologist and a non-Muslim, is to learn from Muslims what their ideas are concerning some very specific characteristics I uncover in the criminological events that I study. In this thread the goal was to learn what Muslims think about who can promise martyrdom and under what conditions it might (or might not) be appropriate to refer to a deceased as a martyr or in terms of martyrdom.

It was not to ascertain under what circumstances martyrdom may or may not be granted by Allah. Nor was it to examine why a militant might use some cite from the Quran to justify some criminal act we all know is wrongful - under any law. (I'm not even sure what 'malignant martyrdom' is, but I'm guessing it's related to this.)

I simply wanted to know from normal, everyday Muslims who in Islam decides who is a martyr and under what circumstances humans can/should/should not refer to a deceased person as a martyr. My suspicions going in were that only Allah can make that decision (and that seems to be the consensus) and that it was blasphemous for a human to presume to refer to a decedent as a martyr (but some very nice people corrected my understanding on that score).

The only thing I really want to gain from here is whether or not there is a significant difference between Shia and Sunnis in their perception of martyrdom, though the issue of clergy came up in an answer. Knowing there is a difference in clergy between the two sects, I am sort of interested to see what thoughts are put forward by the kind people who have responded to my queries so far.

So while I deeply appreciate your contributions, I'm not sure they advance my knowledge regarding the things I'm trying to learn about. But stay tuned; I expect I'll be back on this board asking some other questions in the future.

Thanks, and a positive rep to you, R-3.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2015, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue3 View Post
Bear with me - I have to take these in order...

Woodrow LI: Thank you for contribution; it is exceptionally clear. What I get from your post is:

1. No human can assure another that the second person is destined for Paradise.
2. It is your understanding, as a Muslim, that if a person makes a false statement about Islam that causes a second person to commit a crime, sin or error, then the first person is as guilty as the person who goes forth and commits the crime, sin or mistake.
3. The second person committed an additional mistake of not verifying he was told the truth by the first person.
4. There is no ordained clergy in Islam, only people who can give opinions.

I appreciate this input; it is exceptionally helpful. Can I kindly ask for clarification of points 3 and 4? Point 3: Where would I find the details about a Muslim's obligation to verify everything, including interpretations of the Quran? Point 4 - My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that Sunnis have Imams and Shia have both Mullahs and Ayatollahs - all of whom I would have guessed to be ordained clergy. From your perspective, can you help me understand these three positions (and any others that might fall into similar categories)?

Thanks again; excellent post. R-3.
You're Welcome


answering your questions about these just these
Quote:
3. The second person committed an additional mistake of not verifying he was told the truth by the first person.
While there is no explicit command for us to question all things, it is highly implied by the fact we will be accountable for our choices and actions.

For example:

Quote:
One of the divine attributes of God is justice. God is the Most Just. Out of God’s justice, He gave us free will to decide. If we cannot choose, we should not be held accountable. In Islam every human being is held accountable for his actions except those whose freedom of intellect is limited, i.e. being too young, and those whose mind is disturbed.

Because we have the freedom to choose and we are responsible, we have the power to change our conditions. Allah says what means:

{…God does not change the condition of a people [for the worse] unless they change what is in themselves…} (Ar-Ra`d 13:11)

Our role then is to choose the correct course of action. We have to act upon the laws of God and abide by them. We have to take into account the consequences of our decisions. Not everything should be taken for granted. We have to make up our mind. We will get only what we strive for. Allah says:

{That man will only have what he has worked towards.} (An-Najm 53:39)

No one can say that I will commit a sin because God willed this sin to happen. Though God knew that the sinner will commit a certain sin at a certain time, God did not force the sinner to commit it; hence comes the idea of our responsibility for our deeds.
Didn't Choose to Exist: Why Are We Responsible

since we all are accountable for our choices, we had best question all things, as we are going to be held accountable for our choices.



Quote:
4. There is no ordained clergy in Islam, only people who can give opinions.
We have no sort of central agency that approves of Mosques or appoints clergy. There are many ways a person can be an Imam. In some Muslim majority Nations The role of Imam is a government post and Imams are appointed by the State.

In other places Mosques are built by local communities or even individuals in such case whoever built the Mosque will usually pick an Imam or in some cases hire one or like in the USA the majority of Mosques do not have an Imam and usually the oldest person present at prayer time assumes the role. since I am almost always the oldest person present, when I get to go to a Mosque, I end up being the Imam. there are a number of titles you will hear, they are not religious titles in the concept of Christian ot Jewish clergy. They have no religious authority.

Some Titles you have probably hear

Imam--the person who leads the obligatory prayers

Muezzein--The person who gives the call to prayer (Athan)

Sheik--a bit confusing It is actually a title of respect very similar to Mister. There is a female equivalent, but at the moment I can't remember it. Some people that get called Sheik-an older person that is obviously well beyond the age of 50. A land owner, a government official, an employer, a person who has acheived a level of education comparable to a Ph.d Especially for a person who has achieved an advance degree in Islamic Studies.

Mullah-- For Shi'ites Mufty a person who has earned a Ph,d is Islamic Jurisprudence, is qualified to be a Sharia Judge and who has been appointed by the Government to serve as Mufti-- a posistion similar to a supreme court judge. I believe presently the only nation that has Muftis is Saudi Arabia and Iran is the only nation that has Mullahs. (I may be mistaken about this, but I am not aware of any other nations that have Muftis or Mullahs. As for Shi'ite I am not certain about their clergy, I do know the have Imams and Mullahs but I am not certain as to how a person acquires either title.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top