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Old 08-30-2015, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Here we agree, in principle but have very differnt terminology

Islam is not a religion in the concept Christianity, Judaism etc are religions. It is an action and a methodology. More closely related to the concepts of living, Eating, sleeping etc than to a mutual ideology.

Islam is the act of Submitting to God(swt) to the best of our ability and the knowledge we have.
The point is we must get a common terminology that is objective.
Religion is a very loose term but it is possible to arrive at a consensus of what is meant by religion that is acceptable to all.
Note Buddhism and Jainism are religions but they are non-theistic.
So what is common to all religions that qualify each to be called a 'religion.'
Ninian Smart has done extensive research on this and proposed what is to be called 'religion' must have 7 essential dimensions.
untitled

Whatever difference other than the 7 dimension can be qualified according, .e.g

A Religion can further be predicated with the following;
1. Theistic or non-theistic
2. If 1 - monotheistic or polytheistic
3. Ideological or non-ideological
4. Way of life or non-way of life
5. Other characteristics.

So what is term religion must contain the 7 essential dimensions [or other qualifying dimensions].
I would add the 'existential dilemma' dimension to the 7 dimensions.

So,
Islam is a religion [as with others] which is theistic, monotheistic, started with Abraham, delivered by Gabriel, recited by Muhammad and compiled into the Quran as it is today.
The above is fact!
What can be wrong with that.

We can define all other religions based on the same format.

Quote:
Oddly, the methodology, structure and organization of Islam is much closer to Atheism, than any Theist denomination.

The only thing all Atheist have in common is the disbelief in god, the only thing all Muslims have in common is the Belief in God(swt)
The above is bad logic,intellect and epistemology.
You need to update on the following;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics
Perhaps you are familiar with the above but due to psychological desperations you are ignoring them.

Atheism in general cannot be a religion because it does not contain the 7 essential dimensions that define what is a 'religion'.

Quote:
Your 1-4 points

1. Monotheistic God.
2. Abraham
3. Muhammad & Gabriel
4. Quran

Are your description of Islam as a religion.

However While there is a high degree of unification among Muslims, it is much simpler. and only your # 1 is applicable to all Muslims.
A Muslim is a person who that adopt Islam as a religion which represented in the whole of Quran in words, in mind and in spirit.
Islam in substance is based fundamentally on point 1-4.
Any other qualities are merely predicates to what is Islam.

Islam the substance can be then be described in different form;
1. Different sect - Shia or Sunni or others.
2. Different Madhabs
3. Etc.


Quote:
There are numerous levels of a person's ability to perform Islam. All are considered equal, but as a person grows in Islam they seek more.


A very Basic Muslim is a person who believes in a purely monotheistic God(swt) that has no equals, no partners and no progeny. If that is all a person knows of Islam and adds nothing to it on their own that person is a Muslim

But to be Muslim results in a person growing. Just as a baby is first dependent upon Milk they eventually grow to needing solid food.

So it is with the baby Muslim the next stage is the Knowledge Muhammad(swt) is the Messenger of God(swt)

While there are 6 Fundamental beliefs Among Muslims the disbelief of any except the first does not make the person a non Muslim

I could go on further, but I think I have said enough to indicate that only (1. Monotheistic God).is required to define Islam.
"All are considered equal"
You need to read and refresh your knowledge of the Quran again to note the following critical points.
1. Allah deliberately make some greater than others.
2. Muslims are exhorted to vie and compete with each other to be the best Muslims in the eyes of Allah.

The fact is the Quran was authored and invented by a person or a group of people who inserted the above to ensure believers compete with each other to favor the person[s]' interests. This self-serving intent is very obvious.

Quote:
A study that would need to be made is to find the numerous levels of Islam and, what percentage of the world's Muslims are in each group.

I identify the following groups based upon the level of belief


1. Belief in the Oneness of God: Muslims believe that God is the creator of all things, and that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. God has no offspring, no race, no gender, no body, and is unaffected by the characteristics of human life.

2. The Above plus Belief in the Angels of God: Muslims believe in angels, unseen beings who worship God and carry out God's orders throughout the universe. The angel Gabriel brought the divine revelation to the prophets.

3. The above plus Belief in the Books of God: Muslims believe that God revealed holy books or scriptures to a number of God's messengers. These include the Quran (given to Muhammad), the Torah (given to Moses), the Gospel (given to Jesus), the Psalms (given to David), and the Scrolls (given to Abraham). Muslims believe that these earlier scriptures in their original form were divinely revealed, but that only the Quran remains as it was first revealed to the prophet Muhammad.

4, The above plus Belief in the Prophets or Messengers of God: Muslims believe that God's guidance has been revealed to humankind through specially appointed messengers, or prophets, throughout history, beginning with the first man, Adam, who is considered the first prophet. Twenty-five of these prophets are mentioned by name in the Quran, including Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Muslims believe that Muhammad is the last in this line of prophets, sent for all humankind with the message of Islam.

5. The above plus Belief in the Day of Judgment: Muslims believe that on the Day of Judgment, humans will be judged for their actions in this life; those who followed God's guidance will be rewarded with paradise; those who rejected God's guidance will be punished with hell.

6. The above plus Belief in the Divine Decree: This article of faith addresses the question of God's will. It can be expressed as the belief that everything is governed by divine decree, namely that whatever happens in one's life is preordained, and that believers should respond to the good or bad that befalls them with thankfulness or patience. This concept does not negate the concept of "free will;" since humans do not have prior knowledge of God's decree, they do have freedom of choice.

another study that would be of interest is to find what percentage of the world's Muslims have ever read the Qur'an.
No issue with the above after they are truths of who are the truer Muslims.

Quote:
There are 5 things all Muslims must do. Deliberate refusal to do any one, a person is capable of doing, is sufficient to say the person is not Muslim.

1. Say the Shahadah at least once in their lifetime with sincerity and knowledge of what it means
2. Establish regular prayers
3. Give to the needy. There are some guidelines involved we should not ask the receipients religious beliefs and we should give anonymously and it should be a minimum of 2.5% the value of what we hae owned in the previous year.
4. Fast during the Month of Ramadan
5. Perform the Hajj to Mecca at least once, if we are financialy and physically able to.
You are contradicting yourself here with the above point that Islam main point is monotheism.

Note: I stated Islam must comprised the following imperatively;
1. Monotheistic God.
2. Abraham
3. Muhammad & Gabriel
4. Quran

When one declare the Shahadah it is implied they must accept point 1-4 as Islam-proper because if they accept Muhammad as the messenger then, they must accept the specific Quran [in Arabic] that is recited by Muhammad.

It is possible to reconcile Islam with monotheism but it is no significance when we discuss religion in our current context.
For example a man and woman are both humans [homo sapiens] but such a differentiation is of no significant if we are do discuss sex and gender.

To reconcile Islam merely at the level of Abraham [like monotheism] is also rhetorical and deceiving.

Quote:
If a person is capable of reading the Qur'an they should read and understand Surah Ikhlas.. It is considered to be equal to reading 2/3 of the Qur'an and is called the "Heart of the Qur'an" There is no sin if a person does not read the Qur'an but there are rewards for doing so. If a person reads only al-Ikhlas they will receive 2/3 of the rewards

112. Surah Al-Ikhlas

In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. Say: "He is Allah, (the) One.
2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."

You now understand 2/3 of the Qur'an and the primary message the Qur'an teaches.
Intellectually and academically the above is disgraceful because the foundation premise is false.

"1. Say: "He is Allah, (the) One."
This is false because it is impossible for God to exists.
Therefore whatever that follow is false. GIGO.
Btw, do you understand the principles of deductive logic?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning

Deductive reasoning links premises with conclusions. If all premises are true, the terms are clear, and the rules of deductive logic are followed, then the conclusion reached is necessarily true. -wiki
Since your foundation first premise is false, then all that follow is false.


Note:
The only consolation is there is nothing to stop anyone to believe in falsehoods, lies and illusions if they need it for psychological reasons BUT as long as their beliefs individual or collectively do not infringe on the rights of other or is threat to the well-being of humanity.
The reality is, Islam-in-part and as practiced by SOME [20% = 300 million] Muslims pose a threat to the well being of humanity.

Last edited by Continuum; 08-30-2015 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The point is we must get a common terminology that is objective.
Religion is a very loose term but it is possible to arrive at a consensus of what is meant by religion that is acceptable to all.
Note Buddhism and Jainism are religions but they are non-theistic.
So what is common to all religions that qualify each to be called a 'religion.'
Ninian Smart has done extensive research on this and proposed what is to be called 'religion' must have 7 essential dimensions.
untitled

Whatever difference other than the 7 dimension can be qualified according, .e.g

A Religion can further be predicated with the following;
1. Theistic or non-theistic
2. If 1 - monotheistic or polytheistic
3. Ideological or non-ideological
4. Way of life or non-way of life
5. Other characteristics.

So what is term religion must contain the 7 essential dimensions [or other qualifying dimensions].
I would add the 'existential dilemma' dimension to the 7 dimensions.

So,
Islam is a religion [as with others] which is theistic, monotheistic, started with Abraham, delivered by Gabriel, recited by Muhammad and compiled into the Quran as it is today.
The above is fact!
What can be wrong with that.

We can define all other religions based on the same format.

The above is bad logic,intellect and epistemology.
You need to update on the following;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics
Perhaps you are familiar with the above but due to psychological desperations you are ignoring them.

Atheism in general cannot be a religion because it does not contain the 7 essential dimensions that define what is a 'religion'.

A Muslim is a person who that adopt Islam as a religion which represented in the whole of Quran in words, in mind and in spirit.
Islam in substance is based fundamentally on point 1-4.
Any other qualities are merely predicates to what is Islam.

Islam the substance can be then be described in different form;
1. Different sect - Shia or Sunni or others.
2. Different Madhabs
3. Etc.


"All are considered equal"
You need to read and refresh your knowledge of the Quran again to note the following critical points.
1. Allah deliberately make some greater than others.
2. Muslims are exhorted to vie and compete with each other to be the best Muslims in the eyes of Allah.

The fact is the Quran was authored and invented by a person or a group of people who inserted the above to ensure believers compete with each other to favor the person[s]' interests. This self-serving intent is very obvious.

No issue with the above after they are truths of who are the truer Muslims.

You are contradicting yourself here with the above point that Islam main point is monotheism.

Note: I stated Islam must comprised the following imperatively;
1. Monotheistic God.
2. Abraham
3. Muhammad & Gabriel
4. Quran

When one declare the Shahadah it is implied they must accept point 1-4 as Islam-proper because if they accept Muhammad as the messenger then, they must accept the specific Quran [in Arabic] that is recited by Muhammad.

It is possible to reconcile Islam with monotheism but it is no significance when we discuss religion in our current context.
For example a man and woman are both humans [homo sapiens] but such a differentiation is of no significant if we are do discuss sex and gender.

To reconcile Islam merely at the level of Abraham [like monotheism] is also rhetorical and deceiving.

Intellectually and academically the above is disgraceful because the foundation premise is false.

"1. Say: "He is Allah, (the) One."
This is false because it is impossible for God to exists.
Therefore whatever that follow is false. GIGO.
Btw, do you understand the principles of deductive logic?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning

Deductive reasoning links premises with conclusions. If all premises are true, the terms are clear, and the rules of deductive logic are followed, then the conclusion reached is necessarily true. -wiki
Since your foundation first premise is false, then all that follow is false.


Note:
The only consolation is there is nothing to stop anyone to believe in falsehoods, lies and illusions if they need it for psychological reasons BUT as long as their beliefs individual or collectively do not infringe on the rights of other or is threat to the well-being of humanity.
The reality is, Islam-in-part and as practiced by SOME [20% = 300 million] Muslims pose a threat to the well being of humanity.
All fine and good, but I did not say Islam was not a religion, what I said was:

Islam is not a religion in the concept Christianity, Judaism etc are religions. It is an action and a methodology. More closely related to the concepts of living, Eating, sleeping etc than to a mutual ideology.

I will agree I could have been clearer if I had said--

Islam is a religion but not in the concept Christianity, Judaism etc are religions. It is an action and a methodology. More closely related to the concepts of living, Eating, sleeping etc than to a mutual ideology.

Islam has no similar structure to the other Abrahamic religions, there is no joining, there is no excommunication or kicking out, because no one "Joins" Islam. A person either performs Islam or they don't. There is no required meeting place. A person can practice Islam fully without never having contact with another Muslim. We have no payments to make to a house of worship or clergy. We have no ordained clergy, because none is required. We have no ritual, or ceremony that requires an ordained leader. Basically Islam is how we live not a set of rituals.
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
All fine and good, but I did not say Islam was not a religion, what I said was:

Islam is not a religion in the concept Christianity, Judaism etc are religions. It is an action and a methodology. More closely related to the concepts of living, Eating, sleeping etc than to a mutual ideology.

I will agree I could have been clearer if I had said--

Islam is a religion but not in the concept Christianity, Judaism etc are religions. It is an action and a methodology. More closely related to the concepts of living, Eating, sleeping etc than to a mutual ideology.
Your new statement is still rhetorical and incorrect. I would restate it as follows;

Islam is a religion in substance but differs in it various forms from Christianity, Judaism etc.
In addition to the essence of religiosity, the Quran comprised minor elements of social, economics, military and other issues.
These are minor issues because there are less than 200 verses related to social, economics, others with 300++ military related verses in comparison to the majority of >5500++ verses related to religiosity.

It is a mistake for Muslims to give so much attention to those verses of a few or even less than 1%.
What they must focus is on the 80+% relating to religiosity and eschatological matters.

Quote:
Islam has no similar structure to the other Abrahamic religions, there is no joining, there is no excommunication or kicking out, because no one "Joins" Islam. A person either performs Islam or they don't. There is no required meeting place. A person can practice Islam fully without never having contact with another Muslim. We have no payments to make to a house of worship or clergy. We have no ordained clergy, because none is required. We have no ritual, or ceremony that requires an ordained leader. Basically Islam is how we live not a set of rituals.
In terms of religiosity there is at least 80% similiarity between all the Abrahamic religions. This is the most critical while the different forms are not critical at all.

What is most critically dangerous with the religion of Islam are;

1. The volume and % of evil laden verses [of various degrees] in its core holy text.
2. Its no-holds-barred on evil and violence plus
3. The VERY critical quantum of its believers worldwide, i.e. 1.5 billion and increasing.

At even 10% of evil prone, we have 150 millions pool of potentials evil prone Muslims.
Even at 1% we have 15 million Muslims.
At 0.1% we have 150,000 Muslims.

The above is already a reality, i.e. it took only 18++ to do a 911.
Even lone wolf, i.e. ONE Muslim is sufficient to create terrible evils and violence.
Another reality is we have thousands of Muslims within ISIS, Boko Haram, etc.

The World must wake up to the above reality! Hey! REALITY
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:57 PM
 
1 posts, read 370 times
Reputation: 10
Wow im reading this entire post and replies. It looks as though the non-believers are finding info on the internet that is false or inaccurate. Why cant you man up and read the book, study it and visit websites where an actual muslim is behind the content. Instead of a hate group or person who barely has studied islam and put up a website.

You finished your post off by saying muslims are evil and the world needs to wake up. If .01% of muslims are evil. Then tell me why is this world not burning??? If muslism are that evil then why is it that the person replying to all of your rants is being very civil and polite. Majority of the people replying to you (if its not just one or two people - not paying atteniton to the names) have been very courteous with their time and answers.


All of these school shootings in the USA (Im from the usa/born here) are because a non-muslim could not face reality, was crazy or jsut hateful... went off on a rant and killed a dozen people. With the amount of muslims in America, tell me why havent we seen a muslim walk into a school and kill a dozen people and instead its always a face that is not of muslim origin? Have you lost your marbles? Very hateful and immature.

Proof that our book is legit and real... Allah tells us that their is no point in trying to preach to someone like you, because your heart is closed to the truth and you will never belive. Prove me wrong....

I give applause to those who wasted their precious time replying and trying to help you understand the reality, which is that you are focusing on the negative.
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:37 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
Reputation: 435
"Wow im reading this entire post and replies. It looks as though the non-believers are finding info on the internet that is false or inaccurate. "

Examples?

"Why cant you man up and read the book, study it and visit websites where an actual muslim is behind the content."

I've read the Quran, read the hadiths, visited countless Muslim websites, studied history, spoken to almost 3,ooo Muslims, read both pro and anti Muslim articles, kept up with what is happening in Europe and across the world, participated in dozens of forums about Islam....what else do you want me to do???

"If .01% of muslims are evil. Then tell me why is this world not burning???"

Because there are not enough Muslims in all countries yet. But in many places, it is burning. Every day there are deadly Islamic terrorist attacks, rioting, torture, human rights abuses, financing of terrorism by 'moderate' Muslims, mass rape, rape of little children, honor killings, slavery, persecution of non-believers and other religions, female genital mutilation of little girls.......

Read this:
What Islam Isn't - Dr. Peter Hammond | Virtueonline

"Majority of the people replying to you (if its not just one or two people - not paying atteniton to the names) have been very courteous with their time and answers. "

This site is HIGHLY Moderated! Usually Muslims send me death threats and threats to find my family and slaughter my children. Go look on other sites that are not as moderated.

"With the amount of muslims in America, tell me why havent we seen a muslim walk into a school and kill a dozen people and instead its always a face that is not of muslim origin?"

We saw Muslims fly planes into the WTC on 9-11!! We saw Muslims bomb the Boston Marathon!! A 'devout Muslim' stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center which leaves five dead. A Sharia advocate beheads a woman after calling for Islamic terror and posting an Islamist beheading photo. A 19-year-old college student is shot to death 'in revenge' for Muslim deaths overseas in New Jersey! Two homosexuals are murdered by a Muslim in Seattle! A convert "on a mission from Allah" stabs a store clerk to death in Texas! In Boston, Muslims gun down a university police officer sitting in his car. A Muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants in New Jersey! Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Muslim terrorists. A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah. A Muslim shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center explicitly in the name of Allah.

All done in the name of allah.

In Europe it is FAR worse! Mass rapes are commonplace. Gangs of Muslim immigrants mass rape the non-Muslim women, following the example set by Muhammed and his gang.

The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

"We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: “Give me that girl.” (Sahih Muslim 4345)

I suggest YOU take a look at the other side.
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:13 AM
 
2,057 posts, read 1,121,226 times
Reputation: 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Wow im reading this entire post and replies. It looks as though the non-believers are finding info on the internet that is false or inaccurate. "

Examples?

"Why cant you man up and read the book, study it and visit websites where an actual muslim is behind the content."

I've read the Quran, read the hadiths, visited countless Muslim websites, studied history, spoken to almost 3,ooo Muslims, read both pro and anti Muslim articles, kept up with what is happening in Europe and across the world, participated in dozens of forums about Islam....what else do you want me to do???

"If .01% of muslims are evil. Then tell me why is this world not burning???"

Because there are not enough Muslims in all countries yet. But in many places, it is burning. Every day there are deadly Islamic terrorist attacks, rioting, torture, human rights abuses, financing of terrorism by 'moderate' Muslims, mass rape, rape of little children, honor killings, slavery, persecution of non-believers and other religions, female genital mutilation of little girls.......

Read this:
What Islam Isn't - Dr. Peter Hammond | Virtueonline

"Majority of the people replying to you (if its not just one or two people - not paying atteniton to the names) have been very courteous with their time and answers. "

This site is HIGHLY Moderated! Usually Muslims send me death threats and threats to find my family and slaughter my children. Go look on other sites that are not as moderated.

"With the amount of muslims in America, tell me why havent we seen a muslim walk into a school and kill a dozen people and instead its always a face that is not of muslim origin?"

We saw Muslims fly planes into the WTC on 9-11!! We saw Muslims bomb the Boston Marathon!! A 'devout Muslim' stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center which leaves five dead. A Sharia advocate beheads a woman after calling for Islamic terror and posting an Islamist beheading photo. A 19-year-old college student is shot to death 'in revenge' for Muslim deaths overseas in New Jersey! Two homosexuals are murdered by a Muslim in Seattle! A convert "on a mission from Allah" stabs a store clerk to death in Texas! In Boston, Muslims gun down a university police officer sitting in his car. A Muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants in New Jersey! Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Muslim terrorists. A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah. A Muslim shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center explicitly in the name of Allah.

All done in the name of allah.

In Europe it is FAR worse! Mass rapes are commonplace. Gangs of Muslim immigrants mass rape the non-Muslim women, following the example set by Muhammed and his gang.

The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

"We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: “Give me that girl.” (Sahih Muslim 4345)

I suggest YOU take a look at the other side.
EXCELLENT POST. However, I feel your words may be lost on deaf ears.

El Nox
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:56 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
Reputation: 435
"EXCELLENT POST. However, I feel your words may be lost on deaf ears."

Thank you. Yes, my words fall on some closed minds. But hopefully other readers will have active minds and will look up some of the verses I post. I really hope people don't believe me and go looking for themselves.
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Wow im reading this entire post and replies. It looks as though the non-believers are finding info on the internet that is false or inaccurate. "

Examples?

"Why cant you man up and read the book, study it and visit websites where an actual muslim is behind the content."

I've read the Quran, read the hadiths, visited countless Muslim websites, studied history, spoken to almost 3,ooo Muslims, read both pro and anti Muslim articles, kept up with what is happening in Europe and across the world, participated in dozens of forums about Islam....what else do you want me to do???
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"If .01% of muslims are evil. Then tell me why is this world not burning???"

Because there are not enough Muslims in all countries yet. But in many places, it is burning. Every day there are deadly Islamic terrorist attacks, rioting, torture, human rights abuses, financing of terrorism by 'moderate' Muslims, mass rape, rape of little children, honor killings, slavery, persecution of non-believers and other religions, female genital mutilation of little girls.......

Read this:
What Islam Isn't - Dr. Peter Hammond | Virtueonline
The first thing to do is to address Dr.Peter Hammond.
The site is a very fundamentalist Christian Evangelical site. It is like going to an ISIS site for information about Christianity.
I will let you judge for yourself if their biases affect their judment about non-Christians If you accept their views about Islam. I will have to assume you agree with what virtueonline says about Atheists

Apostles of Atheism | Virtueonline

Suicide of the West: Will America follow Europe into anomie and atheism? | Virtueonline

Chief Rabbi: atheism has failed. Only religion can defeat the new barbarians | Virtueonline

Does Religion Make You Nice? Does atheism make you mean? | Virtueonline




Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Majority of the people replying to you (if its not just one or two people - not paying atteniton to the names) have been very courteous with their time and answers. "

This site is HIGHLY Moderated! Usually Muslims send me death threats and threats to find my family and slaughter my children. Go look on other sites that are not as moderated.
True this is a highly moderated forum. However, you may notice the Islamic forum is not moderated by Muslims, The Judaic forum is not moderated by Jews and the Christian forum is not moderated by Christians. I believe you will find the moderation is based upon forum rules and not the opinions of the posters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"With the amount of muslims in America, tell me why havent we seen a muslim walk into a school and kill a dozen people and instead its always a face that is not of muslim origin?"

We saw Muslims fly planes into the WTC on 9-11!! We saw Muslims bomb the Boston Marathon!! A 'devout Muslim' stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center which leaves five dead. A Sharia advocate beheads a woman after calling for Islamic terror and posting an Islamist beheading photo. A 19-year-old college student is shot to death 'in revenge' for Muslim deaths overseas in New Jersey! Two homosexuals are murdered by a Muslim in Seattle! A convert "on a mission from Allah" stabs a store clerk to death in Texas! In Boston, Muslims gun down a university police officer sitting in his car. A Muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants in New Jersey! Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Muslim terrorists. A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah. A Muslim shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center explicitly in the name of Allah.

All done in the name of allah.
Have you heard of any Muslims flying planes before of after 9/11? This is not a routine Muslim practice not even for Muslim Terrorists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
In Europe it is FAR worse! Mass rapes are commonplace. Gangs of Muslim immigrants mass rape the non-Muslim women, following the example set by Muhammed and his gang.

The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

"We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: “Give me that girl.” (Sahih Muslim 4345)

I suggest YOU take a look at the other side.
All I see thre is a lack of understanding of the conditions in pre-Islamic Arabia and no knowledge of the Ahadith except for what indivikdual hadith say.
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Old 11-05-2015, 12:43 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
Reputation: 435
"The site is a very fundamentalist Christian Evangelical site. It is like going to an ISIS site for information about Christianity."

No, it is not. You are resorting to ad hominem. What you need to look at is if there is evidence for what the article says.

"The first thing to do is to address Dr.Peter Hammond."

No, the ONLY thing to do is address the article. Were there car burnings in Paris? Are Muslims demanding halal meats in Western countries? Have Muslims tried to recruit from jails?

In France, Nothing Says ‘Happy New Year’ Like a Burning Car
French Car-Burning Rite Spreads | TIME.com


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXvxR4UbETA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftS0edHfINU

U.S. Prisons Churning Out Thousands Of Radicalized Inmates
Back in 2006, then FBI director Robert Mueller prophetically described the radical Islamist conversion machine operating throughout U.S. prisons, to a Senate committee. He said that prisons were a “fertile ground” for Islamic extremists, and that they targeted inmates for introduction to the militant Wahhabi and Salafist strains of Islam.
U.S. Prisons Churning Out Thousands Of Radicalized Inmates | The Daily Caller

France struggles to fight radical Islam in its jails
France struggles to fight radical Islam in its jails | Reuters

"They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. ( United States )."

"On Monday, McDonald's announced that its locations in the Detroit suburb of Dearborn, Mich., would stop serving halal food, which requires animals to be slaughtered according to Islamic practices and excludes prohibited items such as pork. The franchisees were the only two in the country to serve halal food.

The move comes several weeks after a $700,000 settlement between McDonald's and a customer who filed a lawsuit in 2011 that alleged the menu items weren't consistently halal."
McDonald's Retreats From Selling Halal Food After Lawsuit

Muslim San Diego Residents Call For Halal School Lunches
Muslim San Diego Residents Call For Halal School Lunches | KPBS

Michigan prisons to offer halal meals under lawsuit agreement
The agreement comes after a lawsuit filed by Muslim inmates in 2006, saying they were not provided the option of eating halal meals ...
Michigan news | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

Ohio Pork Producers Angry Over Muslim Prison Lawsuit
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- A decision by Ohio officials to remove all pork products from prison menus in response to a lawsuit by Muslim inmates is not sitting well with the state's pork producers and processors.
Ohio Pork Producers Angry Over Muslim Prison Lawsuit

"True this is a highly moderated forum. However, you may notice the Islamic forum is not moderated by Muslims, "

Does not matter. The Muslims complain and people and/or posts get removed. I've read that moderators stick up for each other. I hope this is not the case, but I'm starting to wonder.

"I believe you will find the moderation is based upon forum rules and not the opinions of the posters. "

No, I have not found that.

"Have you heard of any Muslims flying planes before of after 9/11?"

Why does method of slaughter matter?

We have the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber who were IN a plane, and how many planned terrorist attacks of this nature were stopped? Also, a wonderful thing happened after 9-11. Before 9-11, pilots were told not to engage a hijacker. Now, they carry guns and will shoot to kill. Passengers and flight attendants will also attack a Muslim who misbehaves. And, security is much tighter, thanks to 9-11 and those Muslims.

Interestingly, it looks like there was a bomb that went off a couple days ago on a Russian flight from Egypt. Muslims have claimed responsibility.
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Old 11-05-2015, 01:39 PM
 
2,057 posts, read 1,121,226 times
Reputation: 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Does not matter. The Muslims complain and people and/or posts get removed. I've read that moderators stick up for each other. I hope this is not the case, but I'm starting to wonder.

"I believe you will find the moderation is based upon forum rules and not the opinions of the posters. "

No, I have not found that.
Sir,

Yet again you are correct. Example, I asked a question about honor killings and the post was deleted because I suspect what you said is true. It was, and still is a valid question and makes your second statement even more true.

It seems as if when it comes to the really hard questions about Islam, there is a reluctance to answer. I will, however, give Woodrow LI much credit for attempting to try and for doing considerable research. I find many of his posts to be illuminating and educational, which is why I frequent this forum. I used to think that another frequent poster did the same, but he apparently has too thin of a skin.

El Nox
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