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Old 08-29-2015, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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3:127 That He may cut off a part of those who disbelieve, or overwhelm them so that they retire, frustrated.

What is the proper interpretation of the above verse?
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Old 08-30-2015, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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to begin with Surah Imran consists of 4 Discourses (verses) Ayyat is contained in the 4th verse

Quote:
The fourth discourse (vv. 121-200) was revealed after the Battle of Uhd.
It is in relation to the Battle of Uhd

127 is specifically part of the overall events in 121-175

Quote:
In this portion, a review of the Battle of Uhd has been mad to teach and reassure the Muslims that the machinations of their enemies could do them no harm, if they would practise restraint and fortitude and have fear of Allah. It has been pointed out that the set-back they had suffered was due to the lack of some moral qualities and the existence of some evils. Since the main cause of the defeat was the greed of the archers, guarding the pass, the taking of interest has been prohibited to eradicate this evil. 121 - 175
which is what should be read as a unit

The source of my Quotes is Maududi--

http://www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/Quran/maududi/mau3.html


But reading 121-132 might be sufficient to grasp what 127 means

And remember when thou settedst forth at daybreak from thy housefolk to assign to the believers their positions for the battle, Allah was Hearer, Knower. - 3:121 (Picktall)
When two parties of you almost fell away, and Allah was their Protecting Friend. In Allah do believers put their trust. - 3:122 (Picktall)
Allah had already given you the victory at Badr, when ye were contemptible. So observe your duty to Allah in order that ye may be thankful. - 3:123 (Picktall)
And when thou didst say unto the believers: Is it not sufficient for you that your Lord should support you with three thousand angels sent down (to your help)? - 3:124 (Picktall)
Nay, but if ye persevere, and keep from evil, and (the enemy) attack you suddenly, your Lord will help you with five thousand angels sweeping on. - 3:125 (Picktall)
Allah ordained this only as a message of good cheer for you, and that thereby your hearts might be at rest--Victory cometh only from Allah, the Mighty, the Wise-- - 3:126 (Picktall)
He may cut off a part of those who disbelieve, or overwhelm them so that they retire, frustrated. - 3:127 (Picktall)
It is no concern at all of thee (Muhammad) whether He relent toward them or punish them; for they are evildoers. - 3:128 (Picktall)
Unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. He forgiveth whom He will, and punisheth whom He will. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. - 3:129 (Picktall)
O ye who believe! Devour not usury, doubling and quadrupling (the sum lent). Observe your duty to Allah, that ye may be successful. - 3:130 (Picktall)
And ward off (from yourselves) the Fire prepared for disbelievers. - 3:131 (Picktall)

In the vernacular--Muhammad(saws) was being told"So you lost the Battle, no big deal "Be Happy, Don't Worry" Allah(swt) is in control and will handle all things.
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Old 08-30-2015, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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In case you are interpreting

3:127 That He may cut off a part of those who disbelieve, or overwhelm them so that they retire, frustrated.

As the cutting off part of someones body. It is speaking of cutting one group off from other groups. ie--Divide them among themselves and separate them from the support of others.
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Old 08-30-2015, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
In case you are interpreting

3:127 That He may cut off a part of those who disbelieve, or overwhelm them so that they retire, frustrated.

As the cutting off part of someones body. It is speaking of cutting one group off from other groups. ie--Divide them among themselves and separate them from the support of others.
No, I am not interpreting is as cutting a part of someone's body.

I am going through every verse of the 6,236 verses of the Quran with a fine-toothed comb so I want to be more certain and exact of what 'part' meant in this 3:127. Thus is OP to invite different views.

I know 3:127 has something to do with a military strategy of cutting off a part of the whole army to weaken them. However note the various interpretation.

Your favored -Asad:3:127 [and] that [through you] He might destroy some of those who were bent on denying the truth, and so abase the others that they would withdraw in utter hopelessness.

Irving: 3:127 so He may cut off a flank from those who disbelieve and restrain them, and they will be sent home disappointed

Al: Muntakhab : 3:127 Allah ordained this course of events. He purposed to strike a part of the evil group of infidels at the root and so with one single blow would they be severed, or to disgrace them and enrage their blood and put them into such a commotion that would precipitate their humiliation and defeat.

Qadri: 3:127 (Also) because (Allah) may exterminate a section of the unbelievers or abase them so that they go back defeated.

As you can see Asad has extracted the eternal PRINCIPLE from the stories of the Battle of Badr and Uhud for all Muslims to adopt as an Islamic principle and doctrine.
I agree with Asad's approach of extracting Islamic principles from these stories.
I had argued all the stories in of battles and whatever may or may not have happened in real history, but what is critical is the principles and doctrines within those stories. Btw, you disagreed with me on this and insist the historical stories and whatever are relevant to a that specific period and time.

Therefore while the whole of chapter 9 [or other chapters] may reflect some events during a certain time with its specific circumstances, what is critical are the Islamic principles within chapter 9 that are supposed to be eternal [since they are from God].
Thus for example 9:29 is an Islamic Principle [from Allah] that all Muslims must adopt without exception if they are to be truer Muslims.

In this particular 3:127, I would agree with Asad's interpretation of the said Islamic principle and doctrine.
This principle is directed at destroying the infidels [kafir, kuffar, kafara] either SOME is in other context exterminate ALL in some form or the other.

The problem is no one can stop SOME [from a pool of 20% - 300 million ] Muslims in interpreting the extreme forms where they act upon their interpretations and commit terrible acts of evils and violence.
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