U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-22-2015, 06:10 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
Reputation: 435

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn View Post
Proof of a "Spirituality" is kind of silly..since Human beings actually are only a skin and flesh creature...Spirit is intangible..unless you are fortunate enough to sense, feel, acknowledge it's presence ...You are NOT ever considered "BAD" if you are unaware..It only mean's you lack faith of such a thing..No harm no foul!

Then of course..lacking faith..and those who go about ridiculing..bashing those who have it..is nothing but indicative of early evolution of your soul...

I say this above..because after talking with so many who have clinically died ..then got brought back..explained what they felt, learned and NOW appreciate why they are here on earth....I asked why?? They all said..because during that time..I came to understand!! yet couldn't explain why they did..but their experience was so understood immediately..They all came back with a "Mission in Life" to finish!!

The years of experiencing such things truly solidified my "Blind Faith" as a child and young adult..to something totally validating....Not all human beings are at the same stage of evolving souls
We are talking here about a supernatural being who, according to his believers, CREATED THE UNIVERSE!! Do you have a clue what that means? This supernatural being created EVERYTHING according to you...yet you think this all-powerful god is incapable of turning itself into something we can see!!

Think about the show such a being could put on without a bit of effort!

I said: "And what's more, you're bad if you ask for proof."
I did not say: " "BAD" if you are unaware"

Those who go about ridiculing..bashing those who don't have faith..is nothing but indicative of irrationality.....The alleged short-cut to knowledge, which is faith, is only a short-circuit destroying the mind.

In fact, no one has ever come back from a NEAR death experience with some amazing knowledge.

Why a Near-Death Experience Isn

The idea of an allah existing is really silly. Even forgetting the metaphysical impossibility, just think about it. A supernatural being able to create THE UNIVERSE being into masochism, obsessed with women's periods and pedophilia, encouraging rape, not knowing where sperm comes from, etc, etc. I mean really!

Listen, if you really believe you are magical, or whatever, you should try for the million dollar prize James Randi offers for any proof of the supernatural!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Mi...rmal_Challenge

When I see you won the prize I'll give you credibility. Until then, you have none.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-22-2015, 06:12 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,738,704 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So as per your OP, seeing is believing?
He sees things, and he believes those things exist because of his trusty sense, so he figures to do the same with a god "showing" his immortality and personality and a structure, etc with the physical senses (especially sight).

If seeing isn't believing then there would be no point to believe in your computer, or at least to accept it's existence as more than just imagination.

Of course, one has to remember that many a few see their purposeful and/or uncontrolled imagination. It's easy to test imagination by how it interacts with the axiomatic reality that you are accepted as sanely inhabiting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2015, 08:59 PM
 
281 posts, read 238,631 times
Reputation: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So you are saying you will believe only if you see it?
Yes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2015, 09:02 PM
 
281 posts, read 238,631 times
Reputation: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn View Post
Absolutely not..then of course I grew up with a healthy understanding of what does and HOW he does it!! They call it FAITH for a reason..God does NOT have to prove anything to anyone demanding it!!

How it's done is basically asking for a sign or something to assist you or maybe ask for forgiveness of some selfish deed you did...BUT SMH..Goag/Allah does NOT need to prove anything to us simple Human Form!!

IF you do NOT believe in the "Holy Spirit" fine and dandy..That's you..demanding an audience seems rather ..How should I say it??? Rather demanding..Trying to be kind.. My Bolded is a character trait very common amongst human kind..so you have many amongst your flock



Proof of a "Spirituality" is kind of silly..since Human beings actually are only a skin and flesh creature...Spirit is intangible..unless you are fortunate enough to sense, feel, acknowledge it's presence ...You are NOT ever considered "BAD" if you are unaware..It only mean's you lack faith of such a thing..No harm no foul!

Then of course..lacking faith..and those who go about ridiculing..bashing those who have it..is nothing but indicative of early evolution of your soul...

I say this above..because after talking with so many who have clinically died ..then got brought back..explained what they felt, learned and NOW appreciate why they are here on earth....I asked why?? They all said..because during that time..I came to understand!! yet couldn't explain why they did..but their experience was so understood immediately..They all came back with a "Mission in Life" to finish!!

The years of experiencing such things truly solidified my "Blind Faith" as a child and young adult..to something totally validating....Not all human beings are at the same stage of evolving souls



I think it's pretty clear..OP may not believe anything without proof..but no doubt believes stories perpetuated by propagandists ..It's a human nature I guess
As I said, there are thousands of recorded deities in the history of the world. Many of them threatening eternal torture if you pick against them. If "Allah" loved human beings as much as he claims he does, he would do something other than provide books (Which is the same thing hundreds of other deities have in their name) in order to point us in the right direction

If I make a claim, the burden is on me to prove it. Not on others to prove or disprove it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2015, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonBradu View Post
Yes.
In this physical world we live in, there are many things we know exist only thorough their effects, we can not see them.

Temperature
colors
gravity
electricity
love
hate
light
thoughts
emotions
time

As God(swt) is not a physical being and does not enter into the physical realm we have to look at effects, not waste our time looking for a physical appearance.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2015, 08:55 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
In this physical world we live in, there are many things we know exist only thorough their effects, we can not see them.

Temperature
colors
gravity
electricity
love
hate
light
thoughts
emotions
time

As God(swt) is not a physical being and does not enter into the physical realm we have to look at effects, not waste our time looking for a physical appearance.
We have more than one sense. We FEEL temperature change. Lock yourself in a meat freezer for a few hours.

We see colors. Try driving without the ability to see colors.
https://www.pantone.com/pages/Panton...pg=19357&ca=29

Gravity? Come on. You experience the proof of gravity every day. You would never walk off a cliff. Why?

You have no idea about the brain and emotions? Time to learn:
Which area of your brain controls emotions?

How Our Brains Feel Emotion | Big Think

Seriously, think! Have you ever experienced an emotion? Of course. We even see the evidence through mental illnesses, brain surgery and such. Nothing supernatural about it.

Time? THINK! What is time? Time is a measurement of motion; as such, it is a type of relationship. Time applies only within the universe, when you define a standard—such as the motion of the earth around the sun. It's not some supernatural thing.

Do some induction and deduction. Look very critically at your list. What is the difference between all of these things you list and the belief in a supernatural being that defies the law of identity?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2015, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
We have more than one sense. We FEEL temperature change. Lock yourself in a meat freezer for a few hours.

We see colors. Try driving without the ability to see colors.
https://www.pantone.com/pages/Panton...pg=19357&ca=29

Gravity? Come on. You experience the proof of gravity every day. You would never walk off a cliff. Why?

You have no idea about the brain and emotions? Time to learn:
Which area of your brain controls emotions?

How Our Brains Feel Emotion | Big Think

Seriously, think! Have you ever experienced an emotion? Of course. We even see the evidence through mental illnesses, brain surgery and such. Nothing supernatural about it.

Time? THINK! What is time? Time is a measurement of motion; as such, it is a type of relationship. Time applies only within the universe, when you define a standard—such as the motion of the earth around the sun. It's not some supernatural thing.

Do some induction and deduction. Look very critically at your list. What is the difference between all of these things you list and the belief in a supernatural being that defies the law of identity?

You can experience and feel those things. You can not give absolute unbiased proof they exist. cold for example is not a thing, is it a lack of heat whic also is a perception not a thing. What we experience as cold is personal to each of us. time as an entity does not exist, it is the meaurement of a relationship. We can not even "Prove" that any 2 clocks have the exact same time. As no 2 clocks exist in the exact same place. We can not measure "see' 2 clocks at the exact same time as there is a distance, no matter how small between them.

In many thingsd all we can do is experience and maybe measure the effects. but we can not measure or see what it is we are describing.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2015, 11:20 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You can experience and feel those things. You can not give absolute unbiased proof they exist. cold for example is not a thing, is it a lack of heat whic also is a perception not a thing. What we experience as cold is personal to each of us. time as an entity does not exist, it is the meaurement of a relationship. We can not even "Prove" that any 2 clocks have the exact same time. As no 2 clocks exist in the exact same place. We can not measure "see' 2 clocks at the exact same time as there is a distance, no matter how small between them.

In many thingsd all we can do is experience and maybe measure the effects. but we can not measure or see what it is we are describing.
What you are missing is that none of what you list defies the law of identity. If you claimed temperature could read minds and turn people into elephants, then you would have a better comparison to 'god'. If you claimed we could travel in time back to the middle ages, then you'd have a better comparison to 'god'. If you claimed that color could create a city, or a universe, then you would have that comparison to 'god'. But all these things are limited to their identity.

Entities can act only in accordance with their natures and nothing can make them violate their natures. Temperature can't eat a sandwich, gravity can't write a book, emotions can't build a city. Everything is what it is, and nothing else.

The concept of 'god' is based on non-reality. There is no supernatural thing with no set identity that can do and be and know everything, create from nothing and be eternal. There is no supernatural being that has supernatural powers that defy reality.

Is there any limit to what supernatural crap you will believe? Do you believe in time travel? Psychic surgery?
Fairies? Superman? Auras? Santa? Once you give up the law of identity, anything goes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2015, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
What you are missing is that none of what you list defies the law of identity. If you claimed temperature could read minds and turn people into elephants, then you would have a better comparison to 'god'. If you claimed we could travel in time back to the middle ages, then you'd have a better comparison to 'god'. If you claimed that color could create a city, or a universe, then you would have that comparison to 'god'. But all these things are limited to their identity.

Entities can act only in accordance with their natures and nothing can make them violate their natures. Temperature can't eat a sandwich, gravity can't write a book, emotions can't build a city. Everything is what it is, and nothing else.

The concept of 'god' is based on non-reality. There is no supernatural thing with no set identity that can do and be and know everything, create from nothing and be eternal. There is no supernatural being that has supernatural powers that defy reality.

Is there any limit to what supernatural crap you will believe? Do you believe in time travel? Psychic surgery?
Fairies? Superman? Auras? Santa? Once you give up the law of identity, anything goes.
I only believe only what I have personally experienced or have been able to verify through multiple sources.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2015, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You can experience and feel those things. You can not give absolute unbiased proof they exist. cold for example is not a thing, is it a lack of heat whic also is a perception not a thing. What we experience as cold is personal to each of us. time as an entity does not exist, it is the meaurement of a relationship. We can not even "Prove" that any 2 clocks have the exact same time. As no 2 clocks exist in the exact same place. We can not measure "see' 2 clocks at the exact same time as there is a distance, no matter how small between them.

In many things all we can do is experience and maybe measure the effects. but we can not measure or see what it is we are describing.
There no thing that we can give absolute unbiased proof it exist.
What exist can only be proven conditionally within justifiable frameworks, i.e.


1. Personal experiences [very limited to a belief]
2. Common sense re shared experiences [very limited]
3. Empirical framework, e.g. Scientific which is highly reliable but not absolute
4. Critical and philosophical framework, most reliable with 3 above.

What you mentioned in your posts above are covered within 1-3 which is no issue.


However your claim of a non-physical God is wrong, false, illusory and impossible.
This is because your claim [discounting an empirical basis i.e. 3] is based on a psychological driven wishful thinking without any proper critical epistemological framework and justifications as expected in 4.


Note my argument on why I am 100% certain God do not exists as real.
http://www.city-data.com/blogs/blog4...not-exist.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top