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Old 11-30-2015, 12:57 AM
 
4,413 posts, read 1,642,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Yes, actually they have medical equipment that can show this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/sc...ghts.html?_r=0

Further, I am fully aware of my thoughts as I experience them first hand. We even share our thoughts with others and come up with brilliant inventions. Look around your room and dare tell yourself that all this was created without thought. Geez. We see the result of brain damage where the person can no longer have thoughts.

There is nothing supernatural about our ability to think. We experience our thoughts all the time. I am now sharing my thoughts via computers that people created by thinking. But over and over you post without thought for what you are saying.
^^^
"Effects of them"

Aren't you copying what Woodrow already stated?

Read again, "you see the effects of them" but you can't see a thought as a tangible entity.
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:47 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
^^^
"Effects of them"
Aren't you copying what Woodrow already stated?
Read again, "you see the effects of them" but you can't see a thought as a tangible entity.
There is nothing in reality that one can ever experienced as thing-in-itself, i.e. a thing as it really is [intangible or tangible].


What we know is only the perceptions [effects] of a thing in our minds but never the thing as it really is.
For example, the stars we see are not the real stars but we are only experiencing a light waves that is perhaps million of lights year old.
The table you see and touch has to travel a certain distance [even nano seconds] to the mind and one can never experienced what a table is really is.
Note this point from Bertrand Russell;


Quote:
Such questions are bewildering, and it is difficult to know that even the strangest hypotheses may not be true. Thus our familiar table, which has roused but the slightest thoughts in us hitherto, has become a problem full of surprising possibilities. The one thing we know about it is that it is not what it seems. Beyond this modest result, so far, we have the most complete liberty of conjecture.
Leibniz tells us it is a community of souls: Berkeley tells us it is an idea in the mind of God; sober science, scarcely less wonderful, tells us it is a vast collection of electric charges in violent motion.
Among these surprising possibilities, doubt suggests that perhaps there is no table at all.
Philosophy, if it cannot answer so many questions as we could wish, has at least the power of asking questions which increase the interest of the world, and show the strangeness and wonder lying just below the surface even in the commonest things of daily life. CHAPTER I
Thus whatever is experienced is always the effects, i.e. perceptions on minds.
This applies to human thoughts itself.


What is critical is whether the thing experienced as an 'effect' on the human system is verifiable & justifiable objectively with testings and repeatability. As pointed out above, thoughts can be verified objectively.


As far a God is concerned, God do not pass the verifiable and justifiable with testings & repeatability test at all. As I had mentioned it is 100% certainty God can not exists as real right from the start.
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Old 11-30-2015, 05:45 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
^^^
"Effects of them"

Aren't you copying what Woodrow already stated?

Read again, "you see the effects of them" but you can't see a thought as a tangible entity.
Read my whole post. What Woodrow is trying to do is equate reality with mysticism. People who believe in mysticism do this all the time, but it's a dishonest argument.

There are many things we can't see directly but we have proof they exist. Come on, you know that. Woodrow has to use the very thoughts he pretends to question in order to write his post. It's actually pretty funny when you think about it.

You can't see air, so stop breathing. You can't see gravity, so walk off a cliff. I think you'll find proof of these things pretty quickly. Stop believing in a god and life goes on without a hitch. And while there is plenty of evidence for natural law, there is no way to prove a “super-existence” by inference from existence; supernaturalism can be accepted only on faith. Dishonest arguments about 'thought being invisible also' just won't hold up.

Mysticism is the acceptance of allegations without evidence or proof and also mysticism defies the law of identity ... natural law ... meaning the universe of entities acting and interacting in accordance with their identities. Mystics believe there is something beyond the universe, beyond entities, beyond identity. A kind of entity beyond anything man knows about entities. Something which contradicts everything we know about the identity of that which exists. In short, a contradiction of every metaphysical essential. Thoughts and air and gravity follow natural law and have identity. Mystics refuse to distinguish between supernatural and natural. They just pick their brand of mysticism.

The really bad news is that mysticism is a destroyer. Mysticism holds back progress and promotes force against people, as we are seeing today (and throughout history) with Islam and other forms of mysticism. Look at the dark ages.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:21 AM
 
4,413 posts, read 1,642,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Read my whole post. What Woodrow is trying to do is equate reality with mysticism. People who believe in mysticism do this all the time, but it's a dishonest argument.

There are many things we can't see directly but we have proof they exist. Come on, you know that. Woodrow has to use the very thoughts he pretends to question in order to write his post. It's actually pretty funny when you think about it.

You can't see air, so stop breathing. You can't see gravity, so walk off a cliff. I think you'll find proof of these things pretty quickly. Stop believing in a god and life goes on without a hitch. And while there is plenty of evidence for natural law, there is no way to prove a “super-existence” by inference from existence; supernaturalism can be accepted only on faith. Dishonest arguments about 'thought being invisible also' just won't hold up.

Mysticism is the acceptance of allegations without evidence or proof and also mysticism defies the law of identity ... natural law ... meaning the universe of entities acting and interacting in accordance with their identities. Mystics believe there is something beyond the universe, beyond entities, beyond identity. A kind of entity beyond anything man knows about entities. Something which contradicts everything we know about the identity of that which exists. In short, a contradiction of every metaphysical essential. Thoughts and air and gravity follow natural law and have identity. Mystics refuse to distinguish between supernatural and natural. They just pick their brand of mysticism.

The really bad news is that mysticism is a destroyer. Mysticism holds back progress and promotes force against people, as we are seeing today (and throughout history) with Islam and other forms of mysticism. Look at the dark ages.
Try to become immortal and never die if you believe there is no God.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:36 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Try to become immortal and never die if you believe there is no God.
What in the world are you talking about? Why do you think I would try to attain the impossible? We will all die. Every one of us. You are afraid of not existing, so you believe in a fairy tale of an afterlife with many virgins to have sex with and no pooping or peeing or burping and endless gluttony.

Have courage!! Face truth, that when you die, that's the end. It is like before you were born. Don't live for death, live for this one life that is all you have!
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:07 AM
 
4,413 posts, read 1,642,332 times
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Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
We will all die. Every one of us.
There you go!!
Now you are talking Quran. Why not try to disprove Quran? It has mentioned it quite a few times. Open challenge to all humanity.

For example 3:185 Every soul shall taste death

go ahead ... this is your chance to deny God. Become immortal and don't die. Let's see if you can take the challenge of Quran or will you walk away in shame?
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:57 AM
 
5,917 posts, read 2,287,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
There you go!!
Now you are talking Quran. Why not try to disprove Quran? It has mentioned it quite a few times. Open challenge to all humanity.

For example 3:185 Every soul shall taste death

go ahead ... this is your chance to deny God. Become immortal and don't die. Let's see if you can take the challenge of Quran or will you walk away in shame?

That is an absolutely silly post of yours. People all over the world throughout time knew they were going to die therefore to equate knowing that one is going to die as needing to beleive in the Quran is illogical. Early people most likely had more experince with death first hand then modern day people or people of that last two milleniums even.

From observations and history I know that I will someday die. I do not the burden to disprove each and every religion in the world in order to state that. To tell someone that they will be in shame for simply stating an observation is an insult to both them and to yourself. If a religon's text mentioned sneezing would you need to beleive in that religion in order to know that you sneeze?

As plants and all animals do die does the Quran mean they too have souls? The more intelligent animals probably know when they are dying and those being pursued by a predator more than likely know it is escape or die.

Last edited by badlander; 12-02-2015 at 10:00 AM.. Reason: added last paragraph
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
There you go!!
Now you are talking Quran. Why not try to disprove Quran? It has mentioned it quite a few times. Open challenge to all humanity.

For example 3:185 Every soul shall taste death

go ahead ... this is your chance to deny God. Become immortal and don't die. Let's see if you can take the challenge of Quran or will you walk away in shame?
Yes this is obviously a silly and shameful post.


Allah [if such a thing exists] is right that every self [person not soul] shall die in time.
So there is no need for any one with common sense to challenge it. [other than there is no permanent soul after physical death].


What is more silly is Allah [if such a thing exists] went on to claim as a threat to vulnerable humans, Allah will resurrect the person with its soul after physical death and send them for judgment on that DAY.


Thus the challenge is on you to prove the following;
1. Allah exists as real,
2. All humans has a permanent soul that survive physical death.
3. Evidence of humans being resurrected after physical death.
4. Evidence of heaven [with virgins] and Hell
5. Evidence of eternal erection and auto-refresh virgins after each intercourse.


else you will walk away in shame.
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