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Old 09-15-2015, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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I find this verse contradictory as to how an Omniscient God Does Not Know yet those Muslim who really strive in the future. On omniscient God should know the past, present and future.
3:142. [Pickthall] Or deemed ye [Muslims] that ye would enter Paradise while yet Allah knoweth* not those of you [Muslims] who really strive, nor knoweth those (of you) who are steadfast?

3:142 [Asad] Do you think that you could enter paradise unless God takes cognizance of your having striven hard [in His cause], and takes cognizance of your having been patient in adversity?

3:142 [Shakir] Do you think that you will enter the garden while Allah has not yet known those who strive hard from among you, and (He has not) known the patient.
3:142 [Ali] Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (In His Cause) and remained steadfast?
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:51 AM
 
569 posts, read 373,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I find this verse contradictory as to how an Omniscient God Does Not Know yet those Muslim who really strive in the future. On omniscient God should know the past, present and future.
3:142. [Pickthall] Or deemed ye [Muslims] that ye would enter Paradise while yet Allah knoweth* not those of you [Muslims] who really strive, nor knoweth those (of you) who are steadfast?

3:142 [Asad] Do you think that you could enter paradise unless God takes cognizance of your having striven hard [in His cause], and takes cognizance of your having been patient in adversity?

3:142 [Shakir] Do you think that you will enter the garden while Allah has not yet known those who strive hard from among you, and (He has not) known the patient.
3:142 [Ali] Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (In His Cause) and remained steadfast?
Views?
My view was whether Allah knows or not, as His fellows, we do Him no harms. Therefore, it was liken a good which was being tried and tested, was reasonable.

And why should you know the nakedness of Allah?
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:17 AM
 
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The verse is not really talking about the knowledge of God, if God acted according to his knowledge, there will be no life, there would be only after life because God knows the result of our life/deeds

But God is talking about the burden of proof upon us and is telling us, you will not go to paradise until you prove that you deserve it.

So, the verse is about proof not knowledge
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NABILBB View Post
The verse is not really talking about the knowledge of God, if God acted according to his knowledge, there will be no life, there would be only after life because God knows the result of our life/deeds

But God is talking about the burden of proof upon us and is telling us, you will not go to paradise until you prove that you deserve it.

So, the verse is about proof not knowledge
Agreed while Allaah(swt) is all knowing, he allows us to live out our free choices.
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Old 09-16-2015, 12:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Agreed while Allaah(swt) is all knowing, he allows us to live out our free choices.
This has been beautifully explained the Late Professor Ghulam Murtaza with an example of an incident that happened to him .
I wish you knew Urdu but the English subtitles will help


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Old 09-16-2015, 08:53 PM
 
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"But God is talking about the burden of proof upon us and is telling us, you will not go to paradise until you prove that you deserve it."

This is what I don't get....here is this CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE and he gives us free will (but unless we know all probable outcomes of a decision, according to a Muslim poster here, we don't have free will) and if we don't 'choose' to act like and believe what he demands he'll torture us for all eternity. Who acts like this? Only a psychopath! That's not a rational choice! Threats of never ending torture and slaughter aren't an argument to follow an ideology.

This is one of so many things that makes Muslim terrorism so evil and irrational. Muslims, following the example of that nasty Muhammed, think that death threats make people want to follow an ideology. If I pointed a gun to the heads of Muslims and demanded that you all convert to Scientology, could you really do that? Of course not. All you do is foster hate and slaughter by doing that!

And all that hate from allah in the quran about never ending horrible torture for non-Muslims....if that isn't hate speech I don't know what is!

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

I mean seriously...look at the hate here. Is this really what you want to submit to? There are literally HUNDREDS of hate filled verses in the Quran. How could a supernatural entity that created THE UNIVERSE have so much hate for little old us? Why would this tiny speck of humanity foster so much rage and hate and desire for endless torture?
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
And all that hate from allah in the quran about never ending horrible torture for non-Muslims....if that isn't hate speech I don't know what is!

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

I mean seriously...look at the hate here. Is this really what you want to submit to? There are literally HUNDREDS of hate filled verses in the Quran. How could a supernatural entity that created THE UNIVERSE have so much hate for little old us? Why would this tiny speck of humanity foster so much rage and hate and desire for endless torture?
That is the most serious irony.

Muslims are accusing non-Muslims of promoting 'hatred.'

When in fact, the non-Muslims are merely highlighting the inherent 'hatred' from the evil laden verses that has inspired real evils an violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims.

This is like accusing Joe-bloke then [1930s] of promoting hatred of Nazism and 'Germans' when he was warning everyone of the potential atrocities of the Nazis.
When Mohammed arrived in Medina, which was half Jewish, the Jews informed him that he was not a prophet of theirs. The Koran changed its attitude, and Jews became the object of hatred. Indeed, as a measurement of that hatred, 10.6% of the Koran written in Medina is about Jew hatred. Using the concept of the German Holocaust as the reference, it should be noted that 6.8% of Mein Kampf is about Jew hatred.
Conclusion: the Koran written in Medina is more filled with Jew hatred than Mein Kampf.
The Good Holocaust Denial - Political Islam
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:44 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 753,037 times
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"This has been beautifully explained the Late Professor Ghulam Murtaza"

Nonsense. This rests on the false premise that a creator of the entire universe exists and, to add to the hilarity, it chooses a prophet that is a pedophile, a rapist, a murderer, a terrorist, a slave trader and owner, a thief, and horny beyond belief and also very obsessed with women's menses. But, to add to the fun, this creator of the universe likes evil things! Torture and rape of captive women and sex with children and women's satanic menses also, by a wild coincidence, are also what allah enjoys!

Dare I say it: A match made in heaven!

Now, in reality, allah does not exist. Nothing supernatural is determining our destiny. Problem solved.
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:05 PM
 
4,426 posts, read 1,649,750 times
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Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"This has been beautifully explained the Late Professor Ghulam Murtaza"

Nonsense. This rests on the false premise that a creator of the entire universe exists and, to add to the hilarity, it chooses a prophet that is a pedophile, a rapist, a murderer, a terrorist, a slave trader and owner, a thief, and horny beyond belief and also very obsessed with women's menses. But, to add to the fun, this creator of the universe likes evil things! Torture and rape of captive women and sex with children and women's satanic menses also, by a wild coincidence, are also what allah enjoys!

Dare I say it: A match made in heaven!

Now, in reality, allah does not exist. Nothing supernatural is determining our destiny. Problem solved.
OK - that's your opinion that you are entitled to believe and follow. Make sure you stick with it.
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,586,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NABILBB View Post
The verse is not really talking about the knowledge of God, if God acted according to his knowledge, there will be no life, there would be only after life because God knows the result of our life/deeds

But God is talking about the burden of proof upon us and is telling us, you will not go to paradise until you prove that you deserve it.

So, the verse is about proof not knowledge
My point:
1. It is impossible for God to exist as real
2. Thus there was no real Quran from God.
3. Therefore the Quran can only be of humans.

I have no issue with anyone going into fiction for various and personal purpose but at least there should be no obvious contradictions and controversies in that work.
If God is presented as Omniscient [all knowing] then God should not be presented as 'not knowing' in this case, i.e. not knowing the future.

To make sense, it should be presented as 'God knows everything but he is not telling you the future'
The above makes more sense than saying God do not know your future acts yet as in 3:142.

Such carelessness as in 3:142 reinforce the fact that the Quran was authored by man and not by any supposed God.
Note there are many such contradiction and errors in the Quran to support my point that the Quran was authored by humans.
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