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Old 09-17-2015, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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I believe, apparently there is still confusion as to the definition of 'What is Islam?' e.g.

Quote:
Islam is an Arabic term. It [Islam] means "The action of submitting to God(swt).
A person who performs the action of Islam is a Musli(Male) Muslimah(female).
http://www.city-data.com/forum/41232527-post18.html
There are many other religions where believers submit/surrender to God.

Note in Hinduism;
I consider the yogi-devotee—who lovingly contemplates on Me with supreme faith, and whose mind is ever absorbed in Me—to be the best of all the yogis.
Bhagavad Gita— Chapter 6, Verse 47
After attaining Me, the great souls do not incur rebirth in this miserable transitory world, because they have attained the highest perfection.
— Chapter 8, Verse 15
... those who, renouncing all actions in Me, and regarding Me as the Supreme, worship Me... For those whose thoughts have entered into Me, I am soon the deliverer from the ocean of death and transmigration, Arjuna. Keep your mind on Me alone, your intellect on Me. Thus you shall dwell in Me hereafter.
— Chapter 12, Verses 6-8
The other Abrahamic religions, i.e. Judaism and Christianity also submit to God but they will never claim to be Islam.

There are many other minor religions and set of actions that require submission/surrender to a God.

Therefore even thought 'Islam' may mean 'submission to God' Islam-proper CANNOT be defined by the 'act of submission.'
Hinduism is a religion and the 'Hindu' is reference to the Indus River. Christianity is associated with Christ, Buddhism is associated with Buddha.

To define* What is Islam we must have the following imperative properties;

1. Human Beings
2. Religion - to be defined as truthfully as possible
3. Monotheistic -Abrahamic
4. Quran as revealed to Muhammad by Allah
5. Muhammad

*Define =the act of defining, or of making something definite, distinct, or clear: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/definition?s=t
The concept of relating 'submission' to the religion of Islam is not definite, distinct, unique nor specific.

Whilst 'submission' is basic to Islam, it is not as critical as 'believe'.
Note my OP, Believe is stronger than Submit.
'Believe' Stronger than 'Submit'?
In fact, submission whilst a basic element is merely a sub-point in point 4, i.e. The Quran.

The other reinforcing point of What is Islam is the Historical to the Present context within the context of Religion within Humanity.

Therefore the best starting definition for Islam is the following re Wiki;
Islam is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion articulated by the Qur'an as revealed to Muhammad.

This starting definition is the core definitions and the details of the individual elements of the core definition can be further expounded.

The definition; Islam means "The action of submitting to God" is very insufficient.

Views?

Last edited by Continuum; 09-17-2015 at 10:53 PM..
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Those who think 'submit' is that significant to Islam, I noted it is only mentioned in 7 verses in the Quran [Pickthall].

'Surrender' appear in 55 verses.

Here is an article [Christian's view] on the difference between "submit" versus "surrender" which highlight 'surrender' is more critical than 'submit' in one's relation to a God.
http://www.surrenderedlives.com/

So why not use the term 'surrender' in Arabic to denote the religion?

Meanwhile,
Duty appear 132 times in 121 verses.
Worship appear 208 times in 185 verses

Since 'worship' appear more times in the Quran, why not use 'worship' or 'duty' to represent the religion?

My point:
To get to a definition of a concept or term, there are certain rules to be complied with.
One cannot just define a concept by what one 'feels' it is most likely to be.

IMO, to define 'Islam' as "The action of submitting to God" is very insufficient as it does not follow the default procedures to get to the truth.

Philosophically:
Here is one correct procedures to get to the definition and meaning of a concept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept

Concepts are the constituents of thoughts. Consequently, they are crucial to such psychological processes as categorization, inference, memory, learning, and decision-making.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concepts/

Last edited by Continuum; 09-18-2015 at 01:34 AM..
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Here is one point from so-called Islamic Philosophy* re conceptualizing;
More specifically, the Islamic philosophers link assent to the affirmation or denial of the existence of the thing conceived, or to the judgment that it exists in a certain state, with certain properties.
Logic in Islamic philosophy
The extension from above is the certain state and certain properties of a thing conceptualize must be distinct from another.
Thus we cannot simply conceptualize and define 'Islam' as merely 'an act of submission' because as I have shown 'submission' is common to other religions.

*Islamic Philosophy - there is no indication of any serious element of philosophy in the Quran.
This 'Islamic Philosophy' is merely a case of philosophical-minded-people who happened to be Muslims applying generic philosophy to study Islam.
This is the same with scientific people who happened to be Muslims doing Science. That is not Islamic Science. It is rather Science-done-by-Muslims. There is no significant linkage between Islam [Theological and Eschatological] and Science.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:29 AM
 
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Religion requires rules. Submission requires relationship. Know God through the Holy Spirit, who lives in you. He is the breath of God. And where He blows is freedom and liberty. Yield, submit, to the Holy Spirit as you feel The Wind blow in and on you. :-)
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Old 11-13-2015, 05:05 AM
 
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The word “Islam” is an Arabic word which means “proposal to the will of God”. This word comes from the same root as the Arabic word “salam”, which means “peace”. As such, the religion of Islam teaches that in order to achieve true peace of mind and surety of heart, one must submit to God and live giving to His Beautifully revealed Law. The most significant truth that God revealed to mankind is that there is nothing divine or worthy of being loved except for Almighty God, thus all human beings should submit to Him.
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Old 11-13-2015, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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The confusion is coming from the misconception that Islam is the name of the Faith we Follow.

That is not fullytrue, Islam is the action we perform.

I think you will find that most of us believe that Christians, Jews, Hindus and other Monotheistic adherent also perform Islam, but not in it's correct form as they do not follow all the Prophets(PBUT) not the final revelation.


Islam is not the name of a Religion, it is an action and a way of life. It is the action revealed through all the Prophets(PBUT)
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Old 11-13-2015, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The confusion is coming from the misconception that Islam is the name of the Faith we Follow.

That is not fully true, Islam is the action we perform.

I think you will find that most of us believe that Christians, Jews, Hindus and other Monotheistic adherent also perform Islam, but not in it's correct form as they do not follow all the Prophets(PBUT) not the final revelation.

Islam is not the name of a Religion, it is an action and a way of life. It is the action revealed through all the Prophets(PBUT)
Your views are a one-man crusade.
You are inventing your own version of Islam which is not in line with the words of Allah as in the Quran-MGA-610.
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Old 11-13-2015, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your views are a one-man crusade.
You are inventing your own version of Islam which is not in line with the words of Allah as in the Quran-MGA-610.
I find that virtually every Muslim I know agrees with what I have said.

Show me as much as one Muslim who agrees with your definition.
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Old 11-13-2015, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I find that virtually every Muslim I know agrees with what I have said.

Show me as much as one Muslim who agrees with your definition.
I do not agree that every Muslim agrees with what you have said and the way you present it.

Note I have done extensive reading of the Quran and much secondary materials and my view is gleaned from what is said by various scholars.


Note:
Qur’an: The Primary Source of Islam

Quote:

God Almighty has vowed to preserve the Qur’an from all possibilities of
foreign interference and corruption. The Qur’an says:
It is indeed We Who have sent down this remembrance, and most surely We are its Guardians. (15:9)
The Qur’an is thus the primary source of knowledge in Islam.
Furthermore, the Book itself clarifies that it is meant to be taken as
al-Furqan: the ultimate criterion between right and wrong. It says:
Blessed is He Who revealed the Criterion (of right and wrong) to His servant that he may be a warner for the world."(25:1)
Moreover, the Qur’an has been conferred the role of muhaymin i.e. guardian
over the earlier books of divine origin.

The supreme status of the Qur’an as a source of knowledge entails that in
all matters on which the Book of Allah has given guidance -- direct or indirect,
specific or general -- no other source can overrule it. There can always be a
possibility of difference of opinion in the understanding of the contents of the
Book, but the general rule that the Qur’anic verdict holds supreme to all other
sources of knowledge, whether religious or secular, is so unquestionable that
whoever disputes it, disputes the very foundation of Islam. The only theoretical
possibility one could imagine of an authority that could have possibly overruled
a Qur’anic verdict was the Prophet (sws) but the Qur’an has pre-empted to set
aside this possibility by requiring him to declare thus:
Say [O prophet]: It is not for me to change it [the Qur’an] of my own accord.
I only follow that which is inspired in me. If I disobey my Lord I fear retribution of an awful Day. (10:15).

If the Quran is the primary source of all Islamic knowledge, then where else can 'what is Islam' and all matters related to the terms and conditions of the covenant with Allah, come from?
Answer: The Quran and no where else!
The Hadiths and Sira are relevant but they are secondary sources and can only be rely upon as guides.

So far all my points are objectively based on the verses in the Quran-MGA-610 in context and no where else. Thus there is no way I could be wrong as far as the words of Allah are concerned which I rely verbatim from the Quran [albeit translated].
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Old 11-13-2015, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I do not agree that every Muslim agrees with what you have said and the way you present it.

Note I have done extensive reading of the Quran and much secondary materials and my view is gleaned from what is said by various scholars.


Note:
Qur’an: The Primary Source of Islam

If the Quran is the primary source of all Islamic knowledge, then where else can 'what is Islam' and all matters related to the terms and conditions of the covenant with Allah, come from?
Answer: The Quran and no where else!
The Hadiths and Sira are relevant but they are secondary sources and can only be rely upon as guides.

So far all my points are objectively based on the verses in the Quran-MGA-610 in context and no where else. Thus there is no way I could be wrong as far as the words of Allah are concerned which I rely verbatim from the Quran [albeit translated].
I did not say every Muslim. I said every Muslim I know.

The point being, have you found any Muslims that agree with your definition?

It is of little use what you believe the definition is, what is important in understanding Islam is what Muslims believe Islam is.

the people I know and those who guided me in my early days as a Muslim, do not believe it is the name of a religion, they believe it is the personal, independent act of submission to Allaah(swt)---THE ACTION OF PERFORMING ISLAM
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