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Old 09-26-2015, 08:00 PM
 
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It is true that there is a marriage crisis in general. There are just not enough men that are especially in large cities like DC, NYC and on and on.

The question of why a woman is not allowed to marry more than one husband has alot to do with economics. Marriage in the olden days was a business contract. People did not marry for love that is a new concept. In the past most societies were agrarian and were male dominated so land would go to the husband heirs. If a woman had more than one husband how would they know who the father was. There were no genetic tests.

Also polygamy in societies usually has to do with lack of men. I think it is descipable but many things in religion is there due to what was going on at the time. Keep in mind the area and culture where the 3 major religions came from.

In india, woman would kill themselves when they became widows and their inheritance would go the temple.
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffy1 View Post
Also polygamy in societies usually has to do with lack of men. I think it is descipable but many things in religion is there due to what was going on at the time. Keep in mind the area and culture where the 3 major religions came from.

In india, woman would kill themselves when they became widows and their inheritance would go the temple.
I agree with 'many things in religion is there due to what was going on at the time.'
The problem with Islam in this case is the Quran [primary] that dictate the religion is the words of God and is immutable and applicable till eternity. The Hadiths are also taken to be immutable, if not, are strictly adhered to.
Thus even in a modern situation anywhere where there are more men than women, the men by Islamic Law are allowed to take 4 wives. This will favor the rich lusty men and leaving the other men with no opportunity to marry a wife.
Therefore whatever the crisis there is no room for adaption in Islam, true Muslims has to abide by their Quran & hadiths rigidly and dogmatically regardless of the situation till eternity.
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Old 09-27-2015, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I agree with 'many things in religion is there due to what was going on at the time.'
The problem with Islam in this case is the Quran [primary] that dictate the religion is the words of God and is immutable and applicable till eternity. The Hadiths are also taken to be immutable, if not, are strictly adhered to.
Thus even in a modern situation anywhere where there are more men than women, the men by Islamic Law are allowed to take 4 wives. This will favor the rich lusty men and leaving the other men with no opportunity to marry a wife.
Therefore whatever the crisis there is no room for adaption in Islam, true Muslims has to abide by their Quran & hadiths rigidly and dogmatically regardless of the situation till eternity.
The restrictions on marrying more than one wife pretty much discourages polygamy (Provided the restrictions are followed) It is true that the requirement on treating each wife equally and each to have her own house, does limit it to the wealthy. But even so if followed properly he should only take a previously married woman as an additional wife, unless none are available in his area. Only time a man should he seek a never married woman is if no widows or divorces will have him and then the choice should be a woman in dire financial need.

Islam is the only Abrahamic religion that limits the number of wives in it's scriptures.

Oddly the US restrictions on Islamic civil law makes polygamy much easier. As the Nikkah (Shariah marriage) is not recognized as marriage in 20 or so states. A man signing a Nikkah with multiple women is not breaking any laws as in those states he did not marry them. The big failure under failure to recognize an Islamic marriage is the woman has no protection if the man decides to divorce her..
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Old 09-27-2015, 02:28 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The restrictions on marrying more than one wife pretty much discourages polygamy (Provided the restrictions are followed) It is true that the requirement on treating each wife equally and each to have her own house, does limit it to the wealthy. But even so if followed properly he should only take a previously married woman as an additional wife, unless none are available in his area. Only time a man should he seek a never married woman is if no widows or divorces will have him and then the choice should be a woman in dire financial need.

Islam is the only Abrahamic religion that limits the number of wives in it's scriptures.
From what I have read in the Quran there are no specific verses that permit a man to marry up to four wives with regard to any women in general.
4:3. And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women [female orphans], who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.

Strictly 4:3 refers specifically only to female orphans. Perhaps there were many female orphans during that time. Subsequently lusty Muslims exploited this verse plus examples of the prophets and extent it to any women in general.
Agree?

Quote:
Oddly the US restrictions on Islamic civil law makes polygamy much easier. As the Nikkah (Shariah marriage) is not recognized as marriage in 20 or so states. A man signing a Nikkah with multiple women is not breaking any laws as in those states he did not marry them. The big failure under failure to recognize an Islamic marriage is the woman has no protection if the man decides to divorce her..
In line with a greater moral conscience, polygamy [indication of beastly impulses and low morality in present era] is illegal and prohibited in the US and most countries, except majority Muslims countries.

The Nikkah (Shariah marriage) is illegal in the US. It is not much different from an implied agreement related to cohabitation and other forms of intersex partnership that do not conform to the marriage laws.
There is no failure [morally] to be considered, those who enter into Nikkah should know what they are doing is illegal and therefore should not expect the law to protect them.

In the modern era, monogamy is the default moral standard. Polygamy in the modern era is bad moral practice.
It is thus a real shame that Islam do not and CANNOT keep up with modern basic moral standards to protect basic human dignity.

At present, there are still many non-Muslim who has the compulsion to act below the basic moral standard regarding marriage and intersex partnerships due to their low moral conscience. The difference with Islam is the non-Muslims are not subjected to any immutable laws regarding polygamy like Islam. Therefore there is room for change with progress. As humanity progress into the future, humans will be imbued with greater empathy and compassion for the other and no one [if any, minimal] will yearn for polygamy to satisfy their lusts.

Last edited by Continuum; 09-27-2015 at 02:45 AM..
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The problem with Islam in this case is the Quran [primary] that dictate the religion is the words of God and is immutable and applicable till eternity. The Hadiths are also taken to be immutable, if not, are strictly adhered to.
Heck, doesn't every organized religion have rules like that? Most people with common sense take these rules with a grain of salt.

If anyone chooses to be a religious fundamentalist, I don't think they should whine when that choice causes them problems.
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:06 AM
 
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I think Muhammed had something like 15 wives (although he divorced several of them) and at least four concubines. His first wife was a rich older woman who financed him, so that would argue economically for rich women to have several (younger?) husbands.

The sex ratio for the entire world population is 101 males to 100 females. Many Muslim men are taking more than one wife, so there should be plenty of Muslim men to go around. If there is a shortage, it would be a shortage of women to marry.

So what would cause this problem? I did a small bit of research. I found this:

Muslim men are marrying non-Muslim women.

Muslim women who want to get married are considered desperate:
“Now, it became a taboo for a Muslimah to say 'I want to get married',” says Denise*. “[There is] way too much emphasis on sex. Women are being told that they are desperate, weak, and can't control themselves.”

At a local marriage brunch, many of the women attending were born and raised in the US, educated and articulate, while most of the men were first generation immigrants, without large local networks.

For some reason, the educated Muslim men are not interested in Muslim women.

The Muslim Marriage Crisis

Then I found an article that made 2 good points.

"We teach children to not interact with the other gender and yet, when they become of marriageable age, we automatically expect them to woo one another and marry quickly."

Why are Muslim children taught not to interact with the other gender??!! IF that gender is Muslim???

Then:
"I just want a decent guy, with whom I have chemistry and an undeniable connection. I want someone who will be my partner; I want someone who respects me, all of me. And it's a shame that I find that respect amongst non-Muslim men, while I struggle to find it with Muslim men. Why is it that I am bombarded with messages about not being good enough for Muslim men, yet non-Muslim men value my education, strength, voice, independence, and just about every characteristic that makes me who I am. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/coming...b_6380764.html

This is very sad. It tells me that Muslim men are what we used to call 'male chauvinists' and do not value women, which is backed up by writings in the Quran and hadiths. Islam also does not teach proper moral values such as productivity, rationality, self-esteem (especially for women), honesty, independence of thought and action, justice.

Muhammed and his men raped women, owned them as slaves, hit them, sold them. Not exactly a good example.

Tabari I:280 "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

The good news is that as time goes by, hopefully Muslim women will start to realize that Islam is not an ideology that will cause them to flourish. They will see Western values are more in tune with their intelligence and productivity.

Last edited by juju33312; 09-27-2015 at 10:08 AM.. Reason: add link
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Old 09-27-2015, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
It tells me that Muslim men are what we used to call 'male chauvinists'
I have no idea if your comment is true or not, but it reminds me of a dating show I saw years ago.

The guy was introduced to a nice looking, seemingly intelligent young lady with a pleasant personality. Later the moderator asked him what he thought, and he said he wasn't attracted to her because liked girls who are bimbos.

I thought that was pretty funny. At lease he was honest. I wonder how his life turned out.
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Old 09-27-2015, 04:18 PM
 
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I know that guy! He got married. They have 6 kids and live in a trailer park. She's a waitress and he's on disability.
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Old 09-27-2015, 05:26 PM
 
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Unfortunately, one of the greatest problems for muslims and non-muslims alike are liberals that support the strict ideologies of muslims. They are becoming more and more conservative each passing year. Liberals support freedom of religioun as do I but when religious leaders of any religion spread hate especially for people that are already vulnerable then it has to be stopped. Women in Islam are not considered equal to men. Many of them lie and tell you that women are treated as equals in the religion but it is simply not true. Many Europeon countries with high muslim populations had to enact laws regarding forced arranged marriages, honor killings, and FGM. The US still doesn't have laws for this. Unfortunately, if you give an inch they will take a mile. The religion is a political system that dictates every waking moment of a persons life. There are good ones that don't believe in all the hate and oppression of women but they are being overshadowed by the irrational zealots.
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Old 09-27-2015, 07:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Muffy1 View Post

Women in Islam are not considered equal to men. Many of them lie and tell you that women are treated as equals in the religion but it is simply not true..
lol haha
That's your opinion.

Let me give Khaled Yasin's opinion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzEAoeurPjs


but really, if what you say is correct then why there are more women than men who convert to Islam?
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