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Old 10-02-2015, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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How to be a True Muslim?
What are the necessary steps for one to be a True Muslim?
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Old 10-02-2015, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
How to be a True Muslim?
What are the necessary steps for one to be a True Muslim?
Perfection is not required. It is an individual matter between the individual and Allaah(swt)

It is simply doing one's best to submit fully to Allaah(swt) of one's own free will and for no reason except to love Allaah(swt)

One can not tell by external factors as it is a person's sincerity and intent. We do not know what another person's sincerity and intent are.

The concept of true or false Muslim is a judgement call no human can make. We can only each explain what we believe is the proper way of submitting to Allaah(swt) and give our reasons.

We have no way of knowing if another person is following or not following Islam. We can only assume they are Muslim if they claim to be.

We have no way to judge who is a true Muslim.

The closest thing we can do is point out if a person's actions are Islamic in accordance with our own understanding as to what Islamic is.
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Old 10-02-2015, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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My own belief of how to be a true Muslim is simple.

Question all things.

Believe nothing unless you your self have found reason to believe they are true

Never stop learning.

Do all things out of love for Allaah(swt)
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:08 AM
 
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My observation from speaking to thousands of Muslims is that to be a true Muslim you must never question Allah or Muhammed.

What probably shocked me most about Muslims was their total refusal to consider what Muhammed did (pedophilia, rape, theft, slaughter, terrorism, demands to have people slaughtered, hitting a child, owning and trading slaves, selling women, etc) as wrong.

Another thing I think is universal to Muslims is a firm belief that all disbelievers should go to hell and be endlessly tortured. The idea that disbelievers (non-Muslims) have made the wrong choice (it doesn't matter how they arrived at that choice...manipulation from allah, years of deliberation....horrible punishment for all eternity is justified. I find this so hateful.

Another belief that Muslims seem to hold universally is that Islam should take over the world.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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The following is my view on how to be a 'True Muslim.'
A Muslim relates to a person who follows the religion of Islam, a monotheistic and Abrahamic religion based on the Quran. Muslims consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad. -wiki

Basic 100% True Muslim
From the above, a Muslim is one who has entered into a covenant [spiritual agreement/contract] with Allah as dictated in the Quran as revealed to Muhammad.
Ideally [at least theoretically], the 100% True Muslim is a Muslim who had complied 100% with the terms and conditions stipulated in the Quran's 6,236 verses as revealed to Muhammad.

The 100% of terms and conditions can be extracted by scrutinizing the 6,236 verses of the Quran in fine details, the relevant elements that constitute the covenant/agreement/contract. Once all the complete list of relevant terms and conditions are extracted a Muslim should check whether s/he agreed or has complied with the listed terms and conditions.

Therefore if a Muslim has complied with 100% of the listed terms and conditions, then s/he is a 100% 'True Muslim'. To be a 100% True Muslim may not be practically possible, so in real life what we have are various degrees of compliance and 'True Muslim.'

If a Muslim has complied with 90% of the terms and conditions, then s/he can be regarded as a 90% True Muslim. If only 10% then a 10% True Muslim. This is merely a very simple assessment. To be more accurate we need to give weightings to some critical and essential elements, e.g. the 5 Pillars and others imperative elements.

Sect & Madhad-based True Muslim
The above assess what is a Basic True Muslim but if a Muslim adopt any of the Madhab, it has to take into consideration the various Hadiths and other guidelines of the Madhabs or Sect.
In all cases, the True Muslims must adhere to the primary words of God in the Quran. Any elements that is not aligned with the Quran cannot be regarded as elements of a 'True Muslim.'

For example if a Madhab recognize stoning for adultery, this is not from the Quran and thus cannot be regarded as essential to being a 'True Muslim'. Another is the full cover of the female head is not as per Quran [cover only the bosom/chest] thus not an element of a True Muslim.

If a Madhab reocognizes and recommend 'cast terrors into the hearts of infidels' and since this is as what is stipulated in the Quran [2:59, 33:26], then this would constitute an element of being a 'True Muslim.'

The above is the objective approach of how to be the best True Muslim in accordance to one's ability and knowledge of the Quran.

One can not simply be a true Muslim based on their own views. One can only be a True Muslim based on God's words, i.e. the Quran as revealed to Muhammad, otherwise they could have been seduced by Satan.

Last edited by Continuum; 10-02-2015 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 10-03-2015, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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These 2 posts seem to be very closely related that both should be answered together as the reply for either is applicable to both




Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
My observation from speaking to thousands of Muslims is that to be a true Muslim you must never question Allah or Muhammed.

What probably shocked me most about Muslims was their total refusal to consider what Muhammed did (pedophilia, rape, theft, slaughter, terrorism, demands to have people slaughtered, hitting a child, owning and trading slaves, selling women, etc) as wrong.

Another thing I think is universal to Muslims is a firm belief that all disbelievers should go to hell and be endlessly tortured. The idea that disbelievers (non-Muslims) have made the wrong choice (it doesn't matter how they arrived at that choice...manipulation from allah, years of deliberation....horrible punishment for all eternity is justified. I find this so hateful.

Another belief that Muslims seem to hold universally is that Islam should take over the world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The following is my view on how to be a 'True Muslim.'
A Muslim relates to a person who follows the religion of Islam, a monotheistic and Abrahamic religion based on the Quran. Muslims consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad. -wiki

Basic 100% True Muslim
From the above, a Muslim is one who has entered into a covenant [spiritual agreement/contract] with Allah as dictated in the Quran as revealed to Muhammad.
Ideally [at least theoretically], the 100% True Muslim is a Muslim who had complied 100% with the terms and conditions stipulated in the Quran's 6,236 verses as revealed to Muhammad.

The 100% of terms and conditions can be extracted by scrutinizing the 6,236 verses of the Quran in fine details, the relevant elements that constitute the covenant/agreement/contract. Once all the complete list of relevant terms and conditions are extracted a Muslim should check whether s/he agreed or has complied with the listed terms and conditions.

Therefore if a Muslim has complied with 100% of the listed terms and conditions, then s/he is a 100% 'True Muslim'. To be a 100% True Muslim may not be practically possible, so in real life what we have are various degrees of compliance and 'True Muslim.'

If a Muslim has complied with 90% of the terms and conditions, then s/he can be regarded as a 90% True Muslim. If only 10% then a 10% True Muslim. This is merely a very simple assessment. To be more accurate we need to give weightings to some critical and essential elements, e.g. the 5 Pillars and others imperative elements.

Sect & Madhad-based True Muslim
The above assess what is a Basic True Muslim but if a Muslim adopt any of the Madhab, it has to take into consideration the various Hadiths and other guidelines of the Madhabs or Sect.
In all cases, the True Muslims must adhere to the primary words of God in the Quran. Any elements that is not aligned with the Quran cannot be regarded as elements of a 'True Muslim.'

For example if a Madhab recognize stoning for adultery, this is not from the Quran and thus cannot be regarded as essential to being a 'True Muslim'. Another is the full cover of the female head is not as per Quran [cover only the bosom/chest] thus not an element of a True Muslim.

If a Madhab reocognizes and recommend 'cast terrors into the hearts of infidels' and since this is as what is stipulated in the Quran [2:59, 33:26], then this would constitute an element of being a 'True Muslim.'

The above is the objective approach of how to be the best True Muslim in accordance to one's ability and knowledge of the Quran.

One can not simply be a true Muslim based on their own views. One can only be a True Muslim based on God's words, i.e. the Quran as revealed to Muhammad, otherwise they could have been seduced by Satan.
We can and do question interpretations of the Qur'an. I doubt it there is even one ayyat in the Qur'an that every Muslim interprets the same way.

No person has the right to spread their interpretation as the "True" interpretation. We are not to give our interpretation without acknowledging it is our interpretation and subject to error. If we do give an interpretation we have to explain how we arrived at that opinion, if asked.

The only words we know Muhammad(saws) said are in the Ahadith. However, since Muhammad did not write any of them, they are what witnesses believed they are what he said in accordance to their memory. since they are dependent upon memory they are subect to error and we not only can question them. we should.

as for all disbelievers going to hell. I think it is sad that they choose to do so. but the choice is there own. It is through their own decisions and choices that they choose to go to hell. Every person that ends up in hell is perfectly aware that they were not 'Sent" there. They knew they had the choice between heaven and hell and they chose freely and with knowledge.

The English concept of religion does not agree with what Islam is. Islam simply can not be defined in the English definition of religion. To ask who is a true Human. A new born baby, A Nobel prize winning biologist, a serial killer, a young mother etc.

Being Muslim is similar. the term true Muslims makes no sense. A person either is or is not Muslim.

There are many stages in being Muslims all based upon what a person is capable of knowing and doing.

Perfection is not expected all that is required is to do one's best and to do such of one's own will and withsincerity.

If a persons sincerly seeks to serve Allaah(swt) and does so to the best of their ability and knowledge, they are a True Muslim. All Muslims are equal The concept of True Muslim is meaningless, a person either is or is not a Muslim.

As to how to follow Islam that is a very long disussion. I will venture to say there are 1.5 billion views as to how that should be done. The true way will be "That which leads to Heaven" We our self have to find that and we can not depend upon any living teachers or religious leaders to tell us.

To be Muslim is to enter a path of questioning and seeking answers. as to how one can best serve Allaah(swt) The motivation is internal love for our Creator and a desire to serve him for eternity.

It is a life of learning and passing through many stages as we walk the road of Islam.
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Old 10-03-2015, 10:48 AM
 
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"We can and do question interpretations of the Qur'an. I doubt it there is even one ayyat in the Qur'an that every Muslim interprets the same way."

If what you are saying is true, then the Quran is useless. It's totally subjective based on whatever Billion plus interpretations someone wants to use. Further, what you are implying is that classic Arabic is non-translatable, a common claim by Muslims. Is it just the Quran that is unable to be translated? Or is everything written in classic Arabic open to any interpretation? If so, we should toss ALL books written in non-Arabic.

The horrible elephant in the room is that 'Allah' 'wrote' a book that is open to any interpretation and now happily tortures endlessly anyone who does not submit to him as demanded in the Quran! One thing this 'open to many interpretations' book makes clear is that 'Allah' is ready, willing and able to mislead and lie and trick people and then endlessly torture them for falling for his trickery. Maybe he's tricking people into falling for the evil Islam so he can endlessly torture all Muslims! That makes more sense to me!!

Seriously, if there WAS a CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, that omniscient and omnipotent being would not be sending down such nonsense as the Quran. Instead, there would be a clearly worded document in all languages handed out to all of mankind. Although since 'Allah' can make everyone Muslim at birth, what is the need for some book that can be misinterpreted and changes and untranslatable? I mean really!! And why would the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE even need a prophet, let alone a perverted monster as a prophet?
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Old 10-03-2015, 11:16 AM
 
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"as for all disbelievers going to hell. I think it is sad that they choose to do so. but the choice is there own. It is through their own decisions and choices that they choose to go to hell. Every person that ends up in hell is perfectly aware that they were not 'Sent" there. They knew they had the choice between heaven and hell and they chose freely and with knowledge."

Well, let's see. Is it Allah who is in hell doing his oft bragged about torture, or is Satan in hell doing the torture Allah claims he's going to do himself. Quite confusing, so I looked it up.

From my brief research, it seems 'Allah' created hell. And I can say that only the mind of a complete psychopath could create such a place. (Hint: Muhammed)

"They will long to leave the Fire, but never will they leave there from; and theirs will be a lasting torment." (Quran 5:37)

"…And they will never leave of the Fire." (Quran 2:167)

"Surely, those who disbelieve and did wrong; God will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way except the way of Hell, to dwell therein forever." (Quran 4:168-169)

"Surely, God has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire wherein they will abide for ever." (Quran 33:64)

"And whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger, then surely, for him is the fire of Hell, he shall dwell therein forever." (Quran 72:23)

Reminds me of ISIS burning people alive. 'Allah' must be so proud of ISIS!

So let's take a look at what Allah does:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYSHKwa8ZWU (Warning: this is horrible and I could not watch it!)

Except that Allah does this to people FOREVER!!!!!! You don't die!

And it doesn't stop there! Just burning people alive isn't enough.

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

This is how a monster thinks. It sickens me. ALL true Muslims think that non-believers deserve this. I do not think that Charles Manson deserves this! Is this really what Islam has created? Well over a BILLION people who are OK with this being done to the rest of mankind?

In my case, I can say that the whole idea of Islam is complete and evil nonsense. I would be betraying all my moral values (rationality, honesty, self-esteem, productivity, justice, integrity, independence of mind, courage, individual rights) to submit to Islam. And I would have to force myself to believe in utter nonsense, which I can't do any more than all Muslims can start believing in Scientology and the space aliens and thetans. So, because I have integrity to my moral values and cannot believe in what is total evil nonsense, Allah is going to do torture beyond imagination to me.

How sick is that?

I'll put my morality up against that of Muhammed any day.

If I did believe in allah, I would hate him.
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Old 10-03-2015, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"We can and do question interpretations of the Qur'an. I doubt it there is even one ayyat in the Qur'an that every Muslim interprets the same way."

If what you are saying is true, then the Quran is useless. It's totally subjective based on whatever Billion plus interpretations someone wants to use. Further, what you are implying is that classic Arabic is non-translatable, a common claim by Muslims. Is it just the Quran that is unable to be translated? Or is everything written in classic Arabic open to any interpretation? If so, we should toss ALL books written in non-Arabic.

The horrible elephant in the room is that 'Allah' 'wrote' a book that is open to any interpretation and now happily tortures endlessly anyone who does not submit to him as demanded in the Quran! One thing this 'open to many interpretations' book makes clear is that 'Allah' is ready, willing and able to mislead and lie and trick people and then endlessly torture them for falling for his trickery. Maybe he's tricking people into falling for the evil Islam so he can endlessly torture all Muslims! That makes more sense to me!!

Seriously, if there WAS a CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, that omniscient and omnipotent being would not be sending down such nonsense as the Quran. Instead, there would be a clearly worded document in all languages handed out to all of mankind. Although since 'Allah' can make everyone Muslim at birth, what is the need for some book that can be misinterpreted and changes and untranslatable? I mean really!! And why would the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE even need a prophet, let alone a perverted monster as a prophet?
Any language can not be translate4d accuratly into a language not of the same family. Mebrew and Arabic are in the same family and Hebrew has the same problems when people attempt to translate Hebrew into English.

The best example and readily visible is the OT which is supposed to be a translation of the Hebrew Tanakh. The OT is a totally different thing than the Tanakh. A Jew can not even understand how people even think they are the same.

So it is with Arabic, the majority of the words have no English equivalent. So what you get instead of an actual translation are interpretations and all interpretations are the opinion of the writer.

Therer is no single translation of the Qur'an that is the "Official" version as all are interpretations.

What needs to be looked at are the multiple interpretations and try to find out why the writer of each supports his interpretation.

Contrary to popular belief Muslims are not required to read the Qur'an however to learn to read it in it's original form is considered Sunnah but not fiqh, we are not obligated to do so, but will receive rewards for doing so.

The message of the Qur'an is very simple. If a person reads without preconcieved ideas and reads fudiscourses and not single lines.

For the Non-Arabic speaker I always recommend they read at least 3 tramslations they should read a minimum of 9 consecutive lines at a time. I also find it best is if a person begins with Sutah 1 and then rread Juz 30 which are Surat 78-114. Those are the 36 shortes ayyat and give a good introduction as to what the Qur'an is about.

I also urge people to listen to Juz 30 in Arabic as even without understanding one can get a feeling of the Rythm of the Qur'an



The main thing one should know is the Qur'an is not a new message, the very same message was given to all the prophets that came before Muhammad(saws)
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Old 10-03-2015, 06:08 PM
 
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"What needs to be looked at are the multiple interpretations and try to find out why the writer of each supports his interpretation. "

Guessing games? No, what needs to be looked at is tossing out a book that no one can interpret and demands hate and endless torture for non-believers. You are just making my case stronger.

You have been a victim of this book. You think everyone who does not believe in and submit to your fictitious allah (Muhammed) should be endlessly tortured for eternity in the most horrible and psychotic ways possible.
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