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Old 10-03-2015, 04:28 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Covenant with Allah Must be Fulfilled

There are many verses reflecting the concept of covenant [spiritual agreement] between Allah and a Muslim. Here is a sample of verses denoting the criticalness of the covenant.
I note many Muslims do not take such a covenant seriously as reflected in the following verses.

Generally it is not wise for anyone to enter into a contract/agreement without being aware of the full terms and conditions of the contract. Those who sign contracts without being aware of what they are signing into have suffer great consequences. It is the same for a covenant with Allah so that one is aware of the potential consequences if the overlooked the critical elements as mentioned below;
Chapter 16: [Pickthall]
91. Fulfill the covenant of Allah when ye [Muslims] have covenanted, and break not your oaths after the asseveration [affirm positively] of them [the oaths], and after ye [Muslim] have made Allah surety over you. Lo! Allah knoweth what ye do.

92. And [let your convenant -oath] be not like unto her who unravelleth the thread, after she hath made it strong, to thin filaments, making your oaths a deceit between you because of a Nation being more numerous than (another) nation. Allah only trieth you thereby, and He verily will explain to you on the Day of Resurrection that wherein ye differed.

93. Had Allah willed He could have made you (all) one nation, but He sendeth whom He will astray and guideth whom He will, and ye will indeed be asked of what ye used to do.

94. Make not your oaths a deceit between you, lest a foot should slip after being firmly planted and ye should taste evil forasmuch as ye debarred (men) from the way of Allah, and yours [as infidels] should be an awful doom.

95. And purchase not a small gain at the price of Allah's covenant. Lo! that which Allah hath is better for you, if ye did but know.

96. That which ye have wasteth away, and that which Allah hath remaineth. And verily We shall pay those [Muslims] who are steadfast a recompense in proportion to the best of what they used to do.

As a Muslim do you ever bother about the concept and seriousness of the covenant [spiritual agreement] as stipulated in the Quran represented in the above verses and in other verses?

Views?

Last edited by Continuum; 10-03-2015 at 05:38 AM..
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Old 10-04-2015, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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I am under the impression that you believe Muslims take some sort of oath of allegiance. and this oath is referred to in 16:91-96.
It is not quite that simple. to have an understanding of Surah 16 the entire Surah should be studied in depth and if one does not understand Arabic several translations should be read. Translations are interpretations and reflect the opinion of the Author, which is biased. However by reading several one should

Surah 16 was revealed over a lengthy period of time that began in Mecca and was completed in Medina. It consists of 5 different discourses.

1. Very convincing proofs of Tauhid and refutation of shirk have been based on the plain signs in the universe and in man's own self.
2. The objections of the disbelievers have been answered, their arguments refuted, their doubts removed and their false pretexts exposed.
3. Warnings have given of the consequences of persistence in false ways and antagonism to the Message.
4. The moral changes which the Message of the Holy Prophet aims to bring practically in human life have been presented briefly in an appealing manner. The mushriks have been told that belief in Allah, which they also professed, demanded that it should not be confined merely to lip service, but this creed should take a definite shape in moral and practical life.
5. The Holy Prophet and his companions have been comforted and told about the attitude they should adopt in the face of antagonism and persecution by the disbelievers.

Ayyats 88-103 are part of discourse 5 and explain the importance of not violating oaths and promises.

Herer are 3 interpretations of 88-103

Quote:
Asad

Upon all who were bent on denying the truth and who turned others away from the path of God will We heap suffering upon suffering in return for all the corruption that they wrought: - 16:88 (Asad)
for one Day We shall raise up within every community a witness against them from among themselves. And thee [too, O Prophet,] have We brought forth to bear witness regarding those [whom thy message may have reached], inasmuch as We have bestowed from on high upon thee, step by step, this divine writ, to make everything clear, and to provide guidance and grace and a glad tiding unto all who have surrendered themselves to God. - 16:89 (Asad)
BEHOLD, God enjoins justice, and the doing of good, and generosity towards [one's] fellow-men; and He forbids all that is shameful and all that runs counter to reason, as well as envy; [and] He exhorts you [repeatedly] so that you might bear [all this] in mind. - 16:90 (Asad)
And be true to your bond with God whenever you bind yourselves by a pledge, and do not break [your] oaths after having [freely] confirmed them and having called upon God to be witness to your good faith: behold, God knows all that you do. - 16:91 (Asad)
Hence, be not like her who breaks and completely untwists the yarn which she [herself] has spun and made strong-[be not like this by] using your oaths as a means of deceiving one another, simply because some of you may be more powerful than others." By all this, God but puts you to a test-and [He does it] so that on Resurrection Day He might make clear unto you all that on which you were wont to differ. - 16:92 (Asad)
For, had God so willed, He could surely have made you all one single community; however, He lets go astray him that wills [to go astray], and guides aright him that wills [to be guided]; and you will surely be called to account for all that you ever did! - 16:93 (Asad)
And do not use your oaths as a means of deceiving one another-or else [your] foot will slip after having been firm, and then you will have to taste the evil [consequences] of your having turned away from the path of God, with tremendous suffering awaiting you [in the life to come]. - 16:94 (Asad)
Hence, do not barter away your bond with God for a trifling gain! Verily, that which is with God is by far the best for you, if you but knew it: - 16:95 (Asad)
all that is with you is bound to come to an end, whereas that which is with God is everlasting. And most certainly shall We grant unto those who are patient in adversity their reward in accordance with the best that they ever did. - 16:96 (Asad)
As for anyone - be it man or woman - who does righteous deeds, and is a believer withal - him shall We most certainly cause to live a good life. and most certainly shall We grant unto such as these their reward in accordance with the best that they ever did. - 16:97 (Asad)
NOW whenever thou happen to read this Qur'an, seek refuge with God from Satan, the accursed. - 16:98 (Asad)
Behold, he has no power over those who have attained to faith and in their Sustainer place their tray trust: - 16:99 (Asad)
he has power only over those who are willing to follow him, and who [thus] ascribe to him a share in God's divinity. - 16:100 (Asad)
And now that We replace one message by another [125] -since God is fully aware of what He bestows from on high, step by step - they [who deny the truth] are wont to say, "Thou but inventest it!" Nay, but most of them do not understand it! - 16:101 (Asad)
Say: "Holy inspiration has brought it down from thy Sustainer by stages, setting forth the truth, so that it might give firmness unto those who have attained to faith, and provide guidance and a glad tiding unto all who have surrendered themselves to God." - 16:102 (Asad)
And, indeed, full well do We know that they say, "It is but a human being that imparts [all] this to him! -[notwithstanding that] the tongue of him to whom they so maliciously point is wholly outlandish, whereas this is Arabic speech, clear [in itself] and clearly showing the truth [of its source]. - 16:103 (Asad)
Quote:
Y. Ali

Those who reject Allah and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah - for them will We add Penalty to Penalty; for that they used to spread mischief. - 16:88 (Y. Ali)
One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring thee as a witness against these (thy people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims. - 16:89 (Y. Ali)
Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition. - 16:90 (Y. Ali)
Fulfil the Covenant of Allah when ye have entered into it, and break not your oaths after ye have confirmed them; indeed ye have made Allah your surety; for Allah knoweth all that ye do. - 16:91 (Y. Ali)
And be not like a woman who breaks into untwisted strands the yarn which she has spun, after it has become strong. Nor take your oaths to practise deception between yourselves, lest one party should be more numerous than another: for Allah will test you by this; and on the Day of Judgment He will certainly make clear to you (the truth of) that wherein ye disagree. - 16:92 (Y. Ali)
If Allah so willed, He could make you all one people: But He leaves straying whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions. - 16:93 (Y. Ali)
And take not your oaths, to practise deception between yourselves, with the result that someone's foot may slip after it was firmly planted, and ye may have to taste the evil (consequences) of having hindered (men) from the Path of Allah, and a Mighty Wrath descend on you. - 16:94 (Y. Ali)
Nor sell the covenant of Allah for a miserable price: for with Allah is (a prize) far better for you, if ye only knew. - 16:95 (Y. Ali)
What is with you must vanish: what is with Allah will endure. And We will certainly bestow, on those who patiently persevere, their reward according to the best of their actions. - 16:96 (Y. Ali)
Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions. - 16:97 (Y. Ali)
When thou dost read the Qur'an, seek Allah's protection from Satan the rejected one. - 16:98 (Y. Ali)
No authority has he over those who believe and put their trust in their Lord. - 16:99 (Y. Ali)
His authority is over those only, who take him as patron and who join partners with Allah. - 16:100 (Y. Ali)
When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not. - 16:101 (Y. Ali)
Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims. - 16:102 (Y. Ali)
We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear. - 16:103 (Y. Ali)
Quote:
Picktall
For those who disbelieve and debar (men) from the way of Allah, We add doom to doom because they wrought corruption. - 16:88 (Picktall)
And (bethink you of) the day when We raise in every nation a witness against them of their own folk, and We bring thee (Muhammad) as a witness against these. And We reveal the Scripture unto thee as an exposition of all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah). - 16:89 (Picktall)
Lo! Allah enjoineth justice and kindness, and giving to kinsfolk, and forbiddeth lewdness and abomination and wickedness. He exhorteth you in order that ye may take heed. - 16:90 (Picktall)
Fulfill the covenant of Allah when ye have covenanted, and break not your oaths after the asseveration of them, and after ye have made Allah surety over you. Lo! Allah knoweth what ye do. - 16:91 (Picktall)
And be not like unto her who unravelleth the thread, after she hath made it strong, to thin filaments, making your oaths a deceit between you because of a nation being more numerous than (another) nation. Allah only trieth you thereby, and He verily will explain to you on the Day of Resurrection that wherein ye differed. - 16:92 (Picktall)
Had Allah willed He could have made you (all) one nation, but He sendeth whom He will astray and guideth whom He will, and ye will indeed be asked of what ye used to do. - 16:93 (Picktall)
Make not your oaths a deceit between you, lest a foot should slip after being firmly planted and ye should taste evil forasmuch as ye debarred (men) from the way of Allah, and yours should be an awful doom. - 16:94 (Picktall)
And purchase not a small gain at the price of Allah's covenant. Lo! that which Allah hath is better for you, if ye did but know. - 16:95 (Picktall)
That which ye have wasteth away, and that which Allah hath remaineth. And verily We shall pay those who are steadfast a recompense in proportion to the best of what they used to do. - 16:96 (Picktall)
Whosoever doeth right, whether male or female, and is a believer, him verily We shall quicken with good life, and We shall pay them a recompense in proportion to the best of what they used to do. - 16:97 (Picktall)
And when thou recitest the Quran, seek refuge in Allah from Satan the outcast. - 16:98 (Picktall)
Lo! he hath no power over those who believe and put trust in their Lord. - 16:99 (Picktall)
His power is only over those who make a friend of him, and those who ascribe partners unto Him (Allah). - 16:100 (Picktall)
And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation,--and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth--they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not. - 16:101 (Picktall)
Say: The holy Spirit hath revealed it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah). - 16:102 (Picktall)
And We know well that they say: Only a man teacheth him. The speech of him at whom they falsely hint is outlandish, and this is clear Arabic speech. - 16:103 (Picktall)
To address your direct question:

As a Muslim do you ever bother about the concept and seriousness of the covenant [spiritual agreement] as stipulated in the Quran represented in the above verses and in other verses?

Views?



This surah is not refering to our personal Covenants we each have or do not have with Allaah(swt).
The covenant we have with Allaah(swt) is very simple.

Quote:
Do Muslims have a covenant with God?

The Jews believe that they have a covenant with God. Do Muslims believe they have a covenant with God? What does Islam say about God’s covenant?

God’s covenant with people has been the same since He created Adam. It is that we believe in Him alone, do not associate anything or anybody with Him in worship, uphold His laws, follow His Messengers, and honor His scriptures. That is Al-Amaana (the Trust) which God speaks about in this key verse,

“We offered the Trust to the heavens, the earth, and the mountains. They declined to carry it and were apprehensive of it. But man carried it; he is ever unjust and ignorant.” (33:72)
- See more at: Do Muslims have a covenant with God? « Adam And Eve « Understand Islam
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Old 10-04-2015, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I am under the impression that you believe Muslims take some sort of oath of allegiance. and this oath is referred to in 16:91-96.
You are under the wrong impression.
You missed out this First critical qualifying statement I made in the OP;
There are many verses reflecting the concept of covenant [spiritual agreement] between Allah and a Muslim. Here is a sample of verses denoting the criticalness of the covenant.
Currently I am going every line and word in the Quran [the umpteen times I have done] and scrutinizing with a very fine sieve. It so happened I was going through chapter 16 and noted 16:91-96. It is the concept of the inherent covenant in the context of the whole of the Quran, the Muslim and Islam.
I say again, this 16:91-96 is merely a sample of verses highlighting the criticalness of the covenant.

It is not a pledge of allegiance per se but the covenant is implied and the Principles and contents of this covenant can be extracted from the Quran, the sole and ONLY words of Allah.
The point is once a believer declared oneself to be a 'Muslim' in whatever form [Sahadah or otherwise - explicitly or implicitly], then the covenant take effect and Allah the omnipresent will surely knows.

Quote:
It is not quite that simple. to have an understanding of Surah 16 the entire
Surah should be studied in depth and if one does not understand Arabic several
translations should be read. Translations are interpretations and reflect the
opinion of the Author, which is biased. However by reading several one should
As I had indicated I have read the whole of the Quran many times with detailed and in depth analysis together with various commentaries and in reference to 49 English translations of the Quran. I dare claim I am very well verse with the Quran objectively i.e. not psychologically, subjective and emotionally bias.

Quote:

5. The Holy Prophet and his companions have been comforted and told about the attitude they should adopt in the face of antagonism and persecution by the disbelievers.
Ayyats 88-103 are part of discourse 5 and explain the importance of not violating oaths and promises.
Herer are 3 interpretations of 88-103
There is nothing complicated with Chapter 16 as you portray it. I believe I can provide a more relevant interpretation.

Note 16:88-89
Upon all who were bent on denying the truth and who turned others away from the path of God will We heap suffering upon suffering in return for all the corruption that they wrought: - 16:88 (Asad)
for one Day We shall raise up within every community a witness against them from among themselves. And thee [too, O Prophet,] have We brought forth to bear witness regarding those [whom thy message may have reached], inasmuch as We have bestowed from on high upon thee, step by step, this divine writ, to make everything clear, and to provide guidance and grace and a glad tiding unto all who have surrendered themselves to God. - 16:89 (Asad)

16:89 mentioned a 'step by step divine writ' bestowed by Allah to provide guidance; thus what that follow is the existence of a 'covenant' between Muslims [including the prophet, companions] and Allah. 16:91-96 expound the Principles of the Covenant which is most critical.
The reminder of the importance not to break promises is useful but that is secondary in comparison to the Principles. The story behind this may relate to the prophets and companions but what is most critical is the essential 'eternal' Principle behind it.
When one understand the Principles of the Covenant, then one should view it as personal and seek the terms and conditions of the covenant from the Quran [a step by step divine writ and guide]

Frankly the commentary you provided in my assessment is 'wishy-washy' without any focus on the critical principles of the covenant which is the CORE of what it is to be a Muslim.


Quote:
To address your direct question:

As a Muslim do you ever bother about the concept and seriousness of the covenant [spiritual agreement] as stipulated in the Quran represented in the above verses and in other verses?
Views?

See more at: Do Muslims have a covenant with God? « Adam And Eve « Understand Islam
This surah is not refering to our personal Covenants we each have or do not have with Allaah(swt).
The covenant we have with Allaah(swt) is very simple.
Chapter 16:91-96 highlight the Principles of the Critical Covenant between a Muslim and Allah. As I have said, there are other verses that exemplified this principles.
Once the Principles of the covenant are highlighted they are by default applicable to any one who is a Muslim, thus a personal covenant.

The link you provided gave a very loose answer. They should have highlighted the Principles of the Covenant as in 16:91-96 and other verses, then give examples from other verses.

I'll repeat again, "There is nothing complicated with Chapter 16." Show me which verse or set of verses that are difficult to understand.
Unfortunately you are the one who is not able to understand 16:91-96 as an exposition of the critical Principle of a Covenant between Allah and a Muslim and this should be taken by a Muslim when s/he read the Quran.
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are under the wrong impression.
You missed out this First critical qualifying statement I made in the OP;
There are many verses reflecting the concept of covenant [spiritual agreement] between Allah and a Muslim. Here is a sample of verses denoting the criticalness of the covenant.
Currently I am going every line and word in the Quran [the umpteen times I have done] and scrutinizing with a very fine sieve. It so happened I was going through chapter 16 and noted 16:91-96. It is the concept of the inherent covenant in the context of the whole of the Quran, the Muslim and Islam.
I say again, this 16:91-96 is merely a sample of verses highlighting the criticalness of the covenant.

It is not a pledge of allegiance per se but the covenant is implied and the Principles and contents of this covenant can be extracted from the Quran, the sole and ONLY words of Allah.
The point is once a believer declared oneself to be a 'Muslim' in whatever form [Sahadah or otherwise - explicitly or implicitly], then the covenant take effect and Allah the omnipresent will surely knows.

As I had indicated I have read the whole of the Quran many times with detailed and in depth analysis together with various commentaries and in reference to 49 English translations of the Quran. I dare claim I am very well verse with the Quran objectively i.e. not psychologically, subjective and emotionally bias.

There is nothing complicated with Chapter 16 as you portray it. I believe I can provide a more relevant interpretation.

Note 16:88-89
Upon all who were bent on denying the truth and who turned others away from the path of God will We heap suffering upon suffering in return for all the corruption that they wrought: - 16:88 (Asad)
for one Day We shall raise up within every community a witness against them from among themselves. And thee [too, O Prophet,] have We brought forth to bear witness regarding those [whom thy message may have reached], inasmuch as We have bestowed from on high upon thee, step by step, this divine writ, to make everything clear, and to provide guidance and grace and a glad tiding unto all who have surrendered themselves to God. - 16:89 (Asad)

16:89 mentioned a 'step by step divine writ' bestowed by Allah to provide guidance; thus what that follow is the existence of a 'covenant' between Muslims [including the prophet, companions] and Allah. 16:91-96 expound the Principles of the Covenant which is most critical.
The reminder of the importance not to break promises is useful but that is secondary in comparison to the Principles. The story behind this may relate to the prophets and companions but what is most critical is the essential 'eternal' Principle behind it.
When one understand the Principles of the Covenant, then one should view it as personal and seek the terms and conditions of the covenant from the Quran [a step by step divine writ and guide]

Frankly the commentary you provided in my assessment is 'wishy-washy' without any focus on the critical principles of the covenant which is the CORE of what it is to be a Muslim.


Chapter 16:91-96 highlight the Principles of the Critical Covenant between a Muslim and Allah. As I have said, there are other verses that exemplified this principles.
Once the Principles of the covenant are highlighted they are by default applicable to any one who is a Muslim, thus a personal covenant.

The link you provided gave a very loose answer. They should have highlighted the Principles of the Covenant as in 16:91-96 and other verses, then give examples from other verses.

I'll repeat again, "There is nothing complicated with Chapter 16." Show me which verse or set of verses that are difficult to understand.
Unfortunately you are the one who is not able to understand 16:91-96 as an exposition of the critical Principle of a Covenant between Allah and a Muslim and this should be taken by a Muslim when s/he read the Quran.
It is true there is a covenant between all of mankind and Allaah(swt) that being

Quote:
God’s covenant with people has been the same since He created Adam. It is that we believe in Him alone, do not associate anything or anybody with Him in worship, uphold His laws, follow His Messengers, and honor His scriptures. That is Al-Amaana (the Trust) which God speaks about in this key verse,

SOURCE
That covenant applies to all people even non-believers that do not abide by it.

In surah 16 in discourse 5 which is ayyats 88-128 what is being told is the attitude a Muslim must take when being persecuted. 88-102 are quite explicit in the requirement we are to abide by all contracts and oaths we make with non-Muslims and all people in general.
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Old 10-05-2015, 08:07 AM
 
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"It is true there is a covenant between all of mankind and Allaah(swt) that being ... That covenant applies to all people even non-believers that do not abide by it."

Nope. A covenant had to be agreed to by BOTH parties and both parties have to exist.

covenant: an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.

agreement: an arrangement that is accepted by all parties to a transaction.

Don't ignore definitions.

definition: specification of the essential properties of something, or of the criteria which uniquely identify it
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"It is true there is a covenant between all of mankind and Allaah(swt) that being ... That covenant applies to all people even non-believers that do not abide by it."

Nope. A covenant had to be agreed to by BOTH parties and both parties have to exist.

covenant: an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.

agreement: an arrangement that is accepted by all parties to a transaction.

Don't ignore definitions.

definition: specification of the essential properties of something, or of the criteria which uniquely identify it
This is a good example of an Arabic word that can not be translated into English.

The word being translated to covenant is Aahdi

and you are correct it is not exactly the same as the English concept of covenant.

In the English sense it is only a conenant if all parties agree to it.

In the Arabic it is an Aahdi even if you are unaware of it or disagree with it.

Sort of like the US constitution. If you are an American citizen you are bound by the US constitution even if you disagree with it. Yet, the US constitution is/was considered to be a covenant

Seeing the Constitution as Covenant

By Lynn D. Wardle

Colonial Americans’ belief in government as a covenant between man and God harmonizes with doctrines of individual obedience and accountability.

Many people have not realized that the fundamental principles of the U. S. Constitution arose largely from beliefs about the importance of people making covenants with God and with one another.


https://www.lds.org/ensign/1989/09/s...enant?lang=eng


America's Covenantal Vocation

Lincoln's paraphrase of the fifth and sixth verses of Psalm 137 is one of many manifestations of his view of the American experience as being parallel to that of biblical Israel. If Americans were not the chosen people, they were at least, in his eyes, "an almost chosen people." Every cadence and content of Lincoln's remarks at Independence Hall and on similar occasions suggest that he shared the sense of an American vocation similar to that described by Governor John Winthrop, the foremost of the American Puritan founders.2 In his Modell of Christian Charity delivered aboard the Arabella on the Atlantic Ocean in 1630, Winthrop summarized the enterprise upon which the first Puritan emigrants from England had embarked in the New World: "We are entered into Covenant with him for this work, we have taken out a Commission...."
Covenant and the American Founding

America’s Constitutional Foundation of Biblical Covenant
Outlined in this essay is a brief description of how the biblical concept of covenant became the foundation for America’s Constitution. While this history is now an almost unknown, sub rosa embarrassment to modern eyes, yet the development of American political theory was once highly regarded by most of the world. Seminal colonial American historian Donald Lutz, in his Origin of American Constitutionalism, explains the importance of the Bible’s covenant concept to our Pilgrim and Puritan forbears.
America’s Constitutional Foundation of Biblical Covenant
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:03 AM
 
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"Sort of like the US constitution. "

First of all you are mixing up that which exists with that which does not exist. I'm not going to accept your false premise of 'allah' the supernatural creator of the universe.

Next, the Constitution sets forth the framework for our government and limits on government power. It does not have any direct requirements for individual responsibilities. I think you should read the Constitution. You are way off base here and as someone living in the USA, you really need to educate yourself on this country. This point is fundamental: In the Constitution, the law and the processes are meant to protect individual rights, not require citizens comport themselves to the law. And yes, government officials swear an oath to the constitution.

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_o..._United_States

Your article is stupid. How many of the 10 Commandments are laws in the USA? How many times is 'god' mentioned? This country was built on INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS and is SECULAR, not a theocracy.

BTW,

"Attachment to constitutional principles: Applicants must show they are "attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well-disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States." This requirement ensures that new citizens generally agree with the philosophical foundation of the community. Attachment to the Constitution includes a commitment to the Bill of Rights and a belief in representative democracy. Individuals well disposed to good order and happiness can show they like the United States and believe in its political systems.

(Note: This leaves out all Muslims)

Oath of allegiance to the United States: The applicant must pledge allegiance to the United States, renouncing other national allegiances. The pledge includes an obligation to support the Constitution and to bear arms on behalf of the United States if required....

Along with the rights and privileges of citizenship come certain responsibilities, including:

Give up prior allegiances to other countries.
Support and defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States.
Swear allegiance to the United States.
Serve the United States (e.g., in military service) when required.

- See more at: U.S. Citizenship & Naturalization Overview - FindLaw
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Sort of like the US constitution. "

First of all you are mixing up that which exists with that which does not exist. I'm not going to accept your false premise of 'allah' the supernatural creator of the universe.

Next, the Constitution sets forth the framework for our government and limits on government power. It does not have any direct requirements for individual responsibilities. I think you should read the Constitution. You are way off base here and as someone living in the USA, you really need to educate yourself on this country. This point is fundamental: In the Constitution, the law and the processes are meant to protect individual rights, not require citizens comport themselves to the law. And yes, government officials swear an oath to the constitution.

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_o..._United_States

Your article is stupid. How many of the 10 Commandments are laws in the USA? How many times is 'god' mentioned? This country was built on INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS and is SECULAR, not a theocracy.

BTW,

"Attachment to constitutional principles: Applicants must show they are "attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well-disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States." This requirement ensures that new citizens generally agree with the philosophical foundation of the community. Attachment to the Constitution includes a commitment to the Bill of Rights and a belief in representative democracy. Individuals well disposed to good order and happiness can show they like the United States and believe in its political systems.

(Note: This leaves out all Muslims)

Oath of allegiance to the United States: The applicant must pledge allegiance to the United States, renouncing other national allegiances. The pledge includes an obligation to support the Constitution and to bear arms on behalf of the United States if required....

Along with the rights and privileges of citizenship come certain responsibilities, including:

Give up prior allegiances to other countries.
Support and defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States.
Swear allegiance to the United States.
Serve the United States (e.g., in military service) when required.

- See more at: U.S. Citizenship & Naturalization Overview - FindLaw
You are aware there are Muslims in all branches of the US military and have no conflict in supporting the US Constitution and Islam.

Muslim Population in the Military Raises Difficult Issues
By Yochi J. Dreazen
Updated Nov. 9, 2009 12:01 a.m. ET

The deadly rampage at Fort Hood is forcing Pentagon officials to confront difficult questions about the military's growing Muslim population.

The military has worked hard to recruit more Muslims since the start of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the number of Muslim troops, while still small, has been increasing. There were 3,409 Muslims in the active-duty military as of April 2008, according to Pentagon statistics.
Muslim Population in the Military Raises Difficult Issues - WSJ

Muslims in the United States military
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Service by Muslims in the United States military dates back to the American Revolutionary War where records indicate that at least a few Muslims fought on the American side.[1]

Muslims have fought in all major US wars including the American Civil War, World War I, World War II, and the Vietnam War.[1] More recently they have served in Gulf War, Iraq War, and the War in Afghanistan.

On December 14, 1992, the Army Chief of Chaplains requested that an insignia be created to represent Muslim chaplains, and the design (a crescent) was completed January 8, 1993.[2]

In 2011 there were approximately 3500 American Muslims serving in the United States military.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim...tates_military

Muslims in the Military
By JOHN P. AVLON | April 21, 2006
1461227

His call sign is "Hadji," meaning "one who has made a pilgrimage to Mecca."

"It's a pilot thing," explains Colonel Douglas Burpee, the highest ranking Muslim officer in the U.S. Marine Corps. Now in his 23rd year of military service, Colonel Burpee recently returned from flying helicopters in Afghanistan.

"Everyone knows I'm a Muslim. When I fly, attached to my dog tags, I wear a pendant with a passage from the Koran," he says. "I try to set a good example based upon what I believe.... I can be a soldier and a Muslim at the same time. I have no problem with that."
Muslims in the Military - The New York Sun


Honoring Muslims Who Have Fought And Died For America – Because Conservatives Won’t (IMAGES)
Author: Charles Topher May 25, 2015 9:44 am

Conservative Islamaphobes would have us believe that every Muslim on the planet is an extremist looking to kill Americans. Their ignorance refuses to acknowledge the thousands of Muslims who have fought for America, and their honored dead.

They would have you believe that Muslims in the military are “planting” themselves there to give themselves an advantage when the time comes for Jihad. They couldn’t be more wrong.

The first instance of a Muslim fighting for this country on record was a man named Peter Buckminster. A slave and a Muslim, Buckminster fought bravely at the Battle of Bunker Hill, firing the shot that killed British Major General John Pitcairn. After being given his freedom and changing his name to “Salem,” Peter re-enlisted of his own free will and fought for George Washington at Saratoga and Stony Point.

Washington’s army was no stranger to Muslims. Bampett Muhammad, for example, fought for the Virginia Line Militia between 1775 and 1783. Yusuf Ben Ali, referred to by his slave name Joseph Benhaley, served as an aide to General Thomas Sumter in South Carolina.

Not only are these Muslims heroes, they are the true embodiment of the word “patriot” that conservatives think belongs to them.

Think again.

For more than 200 years, Muslims have fought and died in service of America.
Honoring Muslims Who Have Fought And Died For America – Because Conservatives Won’t (IMAGES) «

Islam in the US Armed Forces
Da'wah
Humayun Akhtar



There are at least 4,000 Muslims on active duty in the US armed forces in observing Islam’s annual holy month of fasting and spiritual reflection, writes The Washington Post in a report republished on the advent of the Muslim holy month of Ramadān.

Lt. M. Malik Abd al Muta’ Ali ibn Noel, Jr. Is the first Muslim Chaplain in the Navy. He holds the rank of lieutenant in the Navy, and wears Islam’s universal symbol --a crescent moon-- on his shirt collar. And as a new moon cued the onset of Ramadān, the first Muslim chaplain commissioned by the Navy led Tarāvīh prayers in the first mosque build on a US naval base, according to the Post.

Three Muslim chaplains, were appointed beginning with the Army in 1993, drafting about a dozen others into chaplain training programmes. The US armed forces offer pork-free field rations; allow Muslims to leave duty stations to attend prayers on Friday, facilitating travel to Makkah for Hajj to this holy city.

In June, this year, a crescent was added to the Christian cross and Jewish Star of David that long have adorned the exterior of the military chapel at the National Naval Medical Centre in Bethesda. “This speaks loud of the navel interest in honouring and enhancing religious diversity within the military,” said the hospital’s civilian Muslim chaplain, Yahya Hendi.

In the US, an estimated 3.5 million to 6 million Muslims are becoming more visible in every layer of American society, and the military is no exception. Since the 1991 Persian Gulf War, when a massive deployment of US troops to the Middle East increased American awareness of Islam, US military officials have redoubled efforts to give the faith the same recognition and status as other religions. Against the backdrop of the latest US bombing of Iraq, as well as US retaliatory attacks in August on Sudan and Afghanistan after terrorists blew up US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the military’s support for its Muslim servicemen helps counter perceptions by some Muslims that the United States is antagonistic toward their religion, the Post adds. “There has been an intentional and systematic effort to provide for the Muslim men and women serving in our military service,” said Capt Mel Ferguson, executive assistant to the Navy Chief of Chaplains and until recently executive director of the Armed Forces Chaplains Board. “The rising number of Muslim military personnel,” he added, “is clearly a growing phenomenon which we have recognised.”
Monthly Renaissance - Content

Crescents Among the Crosses at Arlington Cemetery

Source: ThinkProgress.org

“As of 2006, some 212 Muslim-American soldiers had been awarded Combat Action Ribbons for their service in Iraq and Afghanistan, and seven had been killed,” the New York Times reported in 2009. On Memorial Day, 2008, the organization Muslim Military Members asked that the Muslim soldiers buried in Arlington Cemetery after dying for their country be remembered:

When you wander the cemetery grounds that overlook Washington, DC, you’ll notice the grave of Army Captain Humayun Khan, who lured a suicide car bomb away from the men in his charge, saving their lives but giving up his own. You might also come across the grave of Army Spc. Rasheed Sahib, an American Muslim from Guyana who was killed in Iraq as well, under mysterious circumstances. And then there’s Army Spc. Omead Razani, a son of Iranian immigrants who also died in Iraq. Also, Marine Staff Sgt. Kendall Damon Waters-Bey was killed in a helicopter crash on his way to duty in Iraq. In fact, you’ll find the graves of fallen Muslim soldiers and Muslim veterans in military cemeteries all over the United States, from Hassein Ahmed (Army, WWII) to Ibrahim Muhammad (Navy, WWII), from Mahir Hasan (Army, Korea) to Abul Fateh Umar Khan (Air Force, Korea).

Source: New York Times and Muslim Military Members

And yet more than 3,500 Muslims have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Defense Department figures provided to The Times. As of 2006, some 212 Muslim-American soldiers had been awarded Combat Action Ribbons for their service in Iraq and Afghanistan, and seven had been killed.
U.S. Muslim Servicemen who Have Died in the Service of Our Country | The Islamic Workplace
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:33 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,612 times
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"You are aware there are Muslims in all branches of the US military and have no conflict in supporting the US Constitution and Islam."

This is getting way off topic. Start a new thread of you want to discuss this.
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Old 10-05-2015, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"You are aware there are Muslims in all branches of the US military and have no conflict in supporting the US Constitution and Islam."

This is getting way off topic. Start a new thread of you want to discuss this.
It was a direct reply to your comment


Quote:
(Note: This leaves out all Muslims)

Oath of allegiance to the United States: The applicant must pledge allegiance to the United States, renouncing other national allegiances. The pledge includes an obligation to support the Constitution and to bear arms on behalf of the United States if required....

Along with the rights and privileges of citizenship come certain responsibilities, including:

Give up prior allegiances to other countries.
Support and defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States.
Swear allegiance to the United States.
Serve the United States (e.g., in military service) when required.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
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