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Muhammad is asserted as the First Muslim of Islam in the following verse 39:12.
39:12. [Pickthall] And I am commanded to be the first of those [Muslims] who surrender (unto Him).
39:12 [Asad] and I am bidden to be foremost among those who surrender themselves unto God.”
39:12 [Shakir] And I am commanded that I shall be the first of those who submit.
39:12 [Qadri] And I was (also) commanded to become the first Muslim of all (His creation).
It appears most of the 40+ English translations I came across used the term 'First' and some like Asad use 'foremost.'
In any case 'foremost' = first in place, order, rank, etc.: Foremost | Define Foremost at Dictionary.com
Now many Muslims claimed Adam to be the first Muslim.
So this claim appear to be a contradiction with 39:12 where in Muhammad is the FIRST Muslim.
NOTE: I am aware there are many verses that are related to 39:12 but to save time I am not producing them here at the moment.
It's just a way of speaking. Moses also said he was the first muslim.
adding to your post and supporting your correct answer
The first Muslim will be the First person who performed Islam.
Islam is a verb meaning "Submission to God(swt)"
Muslim is a person who performs Islam.
It is an error to assume Islam is the name of a religion. It is an action, not an organization.
We do believe that presently the methodology of performing Islam is to follow the 5 Pillars of Islam. In the past there were other means to do so. The Jews all submitted to God(swt) and therefore performed Islam as also did the Sabeeans and Christians and even people we are not aware of.
But even the 5 pillars of Islam are not much different from what was done in the past. Simply updated to include the final revelations. But we today are no more nor no less Muslims than Adam was.
If the Qur'an meant Muhammad(saws) was the first person to perform the act of Islam. The words Muslim and Islam would have needed to be explained.
If one reads the Bible in Aramaic ( very similar to Arabic, but written with Hebrew letters) you will find Muslim. For example here in Luke 6:40
I am quite certain the Bible was written before the Qur'an was written and there were Muslims before Muhammad(saws)
Muslim in Hebrew is מוסלמי and predates the Qur'an
As many of the people to hear the Qur'an were Christians or Jews, there is no way they would have understood Muhammad(saws) as being the first Muslim in the chronological sense.
Last edited by Woodrow LI; 10-07-2015 at 10:30 AM..
Many people think Islam is a religion in the concept of the English definition of Religion Which is:
Quote:
Full Definition of RELIGION
1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
— re·li·gion·less adjective Religion | Definition of religion by Merriam-Webster
However once they discover Islam is not a religion in accordance with the English definition, they can understand why we say Jesus(a.s.) and all the Prophets(pbut) were Muslims and why Muhammad(saws) could not have been the first Muslim
Quote:
Christian prof says Jesus was Muslim
Luther College faculty member admits it will 'be a stretch' for some
Published: 07/11/2012 at 8:16 PM
Shedinger said the issue arose when a Muslim student challenged his teaching about Islam, and he rethought not only Islam, but all of religion.
He came to perceive Islam as a social justice system instead of a religion, and found that he thought the same about Jesus.
“I had to rethink what Islam is,” Shedinger said in the interview. “I came to the conclusion that it was a social justice movement and I think that’s who Jesus was in the first century so I conclude Jesus is more like a Muslim.”
He admitted it would “be a stretch” for many to follow his process and consider Jesus a Muslim, but, “It doesn’t make me uncomfortable any more.”
“Even as a Christian I have to answer yes to that,” he said
“We’re not trying to aggravate nobody,” said the interviewer, Abdush Shahid Munir.
Noting that his audience included Christians, Muslims “and other denominations,” Munir asked Shedinger to explain this book.
Shedinger said he re-evaluated a lot of the research he’d encountered during his training, and he suddenly recognized “there were a lot of scholars out there who are arguing the points I make in the book.”
adding to your post and supporting your correct answer
The first Muslim will be the First person who performed Islam.
You are going against God's words when God said, [mine]
39:12.[Pickthall] [Say O Muhammad] And I am commanded to be the first of those [Muslims] who surrender (unto Him).
If Adam was the 'first' Muslim, then God who is supposed to be omniscient would not have used 'first' in 39:12 to contradict Himself.
Quote:
Islam is a verb meaning "Submission to God(swt)"
Muslim is a person who performs Islam.
It is an error to assume Islam is the name of a religion. It is an action, not an organization.
We do believe that presently the methodology of performing Islam is to follow the 5 Pillars of Islam. In the past there were other means to do so. The Jews all submitted to God(swt) and therefore performed Islam as also did the Sabeeans and Christians and even people we are not aware of.
If the Qur'an meant Muhammad(saws) was the first person to perform the act of Islam. The words Muslim and Islam would have needed to be explained.
Your above views show a lack of erudition and worse is the very bad logic [proper thinking].
I think as a human being, your views are erudite and rational but when it comes to theism and religion compromise your intellect and allow your emotions to dominate in matters of God.
Here is my very logical and rational explanation of the relation between 'Islam' and 'Muslim'
Note the following deliberation of a 'concept' and proper logic.
1. Submission is a general concept, synonymous with 'surrender'.
......Submission to a master is slavery.
2. Submission to God is theism.
3. Theism + [7 dimensions of religion] = Religion [theistic]
4. Religion + [Muhammad & Quran] = Religion of Islam
....Religion + [Jesus & OT-NT] = Religion of Christianity
....Religion + [.... & Vedas] = Religion of Vedanta [Hinduism]
....Religion = [ others ] = Religion of Others
5. Religion of [any] + a human being = Believer
....Religion of Islam + a human being = Muslim
Show me where I am wrong on the above logical and rational analysis of what is Islam and a Muslim. I need a reply on this.
From the above & imperatively; Islam = Submission to God within 7 dimensions of religion with the Quran as revealed to Muhammad via Gabriel.
A Muslim is a religious follower of Islam.
You are cheating with your logic and miss out step 3 and 4.
Unfortunately I anticipate you will never respect logic in this case and prefer to be emotionally to it.
Quote:
But even the 5 pillars of Islam are not much different from what was done in the past. Simply updated to include the final revelations. But we today are no more nor no less Muslims than Adam was.
If the Qur'an meant Muhammad(saws) was the first person to perform the act of Islam. The words Muslim and Islam would have needed to be explained.
If one reads the Bible in Aramaic ( very similar to Arabic, but written with Hebrew letters) you will find Muslim. For example here in Luke 6:40
I am quite certain the Bible was written before the Qur'an was written and there were Muslims before Muhammad(saws)
Muslim in Hebrew is מוסלמי and predates the Qur'an
As many of the people to hear the Qur'an were Christians or Jews, there is no way they would have understood Muhammad(saws) as being the first Muslim in the chronological sense.
The Adam and Eve story was a myth.
Adam may have submitted to a God but Adam within the common religious understanding before 7th century was Never a "Muslim" as in 1-5 above.
It is only the Quran [authored by man] that claimed him to be a Muslim and that was based on bad logic.
It is impossible for God to exists and thus the Quran was authored by human[s].
You are going against God's words when God said, [mine]
39:12.[Pickthall] [Say O Muhammad] And I am commanded to be the first of those [Muslims] who surrender (unto Him).
If Adam was the 'first' Muslim, then God who is supposed to be omniscient would not have used 'first' in 39:12 to contradict Himself.
Your above views show a lack of erudition and worse is the very bad logic [proper thinking].
I think as a human being, your views are erudite and rational but when it comes to theism and religion compromise your intellect and allow your emotions to dominate in matters of God.
Here is my very logical and rational explanation of the relation between 'Islam' and 'Muslim'
Note the following deliberation of a 'concept' and proper logic.
1. Submission is a general concept, synonymous with 'surrender'.
......Submission to a master is slavery.
2. Submission to God is theism.
3. Theism + [7 dimensions of religion] = Religion [theistic]
4. Religion + [Muhammad & Quran] = Religion of Islam
....Religion + [Jesus & OT-NT] = Religion of Christianity
....Religion + [.... & Vedas] = Religion of Vedanta [Hinduism]
....Religion = [ others ] = Religion of Others
5. Religion of [any] + a human being = Believer
....Religion of Islam + a human being = Muslim
Show me where I am wrong on the above logical and rational analysis of what is Islam and a Muslim. I need a reply on this.
From the above & imperatively; Islam = Submission to God within 7 dimensions of religion with the Quran as revealed to Muhammad via Gabriel.
A Muslim is a religious follower of Islam.
You are cheating with your logic and miss out step 3 and 4.
Unfortunately I anticipate you will never respect logic in this case and prefer to be emotionally to it.
The Adam and Eve story was a myth.
Adam may have submitted to a God but Adam within the common religious understanding before 7th century was Never a "Muslim" as in 1-5 above.
It is only the Quran [authored by man] that claimed him to be a Muslim and that was based on bad logic.
It is impossible for God to exists and thus the Quran was authored by human[s].
Quote:
Here is my very logical and rational explanation of the relation between 'Islam' and 'Muslim'
Note the following deliberation of a 'concept' and proper logic.
1. Submission is a general concept, synonymous with 'surrender'.
......Submission to a master is slavery.
2. Submission to God is theism.
3. Theism + [7 dimensions of religion] = Religion [theistic]
4. Religion + [Muhammad & Quran] = Religion of Islam
....Religion + [Jesus & OT-NT] = Religion of Christianity
....Religion + [.... & Vedas] = Religion of Vedanta [Hinduism]
....Religion = [ others ] = Religion of Others
5. Religion of [any] + a human being = Believer
....Religion of Islam + a human being = Muslim
Show me where I am wrong on the above logical and rational analysis of what is Islam and a Muslim. I need a reply on this.
first error is Islam is not based upon Muhammad(saws) and the Qur'an. Islam existed without Muhammad(saws)
Full Definition of RELIGION
1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
— re·li·gion·less adjective Religion | Definition of religion by Merriam-Webster
How Islam differs from the English definition of religion
Islam is simply the submission to Allaah(saws) This was taught by all the Prophets. The methodology has changed depending upon the people and the era. But it was/is Islam. Basically a Social Justice system, not a religion in accordance with the English definition of religion..
Even a Christian Professor was able to grasp the concept of Islam and understand why Jesus(a.s.) was a Muslim
Quote:
Christian prof says Jesus was Muslim
Luther College faculty member admits it will 'be a stretch' for some
Published: 07/11/2012 at 8:16 PM
Shedinger said the issue arose when a Muslim student challenged his teaching about Islam, and he rethought not only Islam, but all of religion.
He came to perceive Islam as a social justice system instead of a religion, and found that he thought the same about Jesus.
“I had to rethink what Islam is,†Shedinger said in the interview. “I came to the conclusion that it was a social justice movement and I think that’s who Jesus was in the first century so I conclude Jesus is more like a Muslim.â€
He admitted it would “be a stretch†for many to follow his process and consider Jesus a Muslim, but, “It doesn’t make me uncomfortable any more.â€
“Even as a Christian I have to answer yes to that,†he said
“We’re not trying to aggravate nobody,†said the interviewer, Abdush Shahid Munir.
Noting that his audience included Christians, Muslims “and other denominations,†Munir asked Shedinger to explain this book.
Shedinger said he re-evaluated a lot of the research he’d encountered during his training, and he suddenly recognized “there were a lot of scholars out there who are arguing the points I make in the book.â€
first error is Islam is not based upon Muhammad(saws) and the Qur'an. Islam existed without Muhammad(saws)
Full Definition of RELIGION
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
— re·li·gion·less adjective Religion | Definition of religion by Merriam-Webster
How Islam differs from the English definition of religion
Islam is simply the submission to Allaah(saws) This was taught by all the Prophets. The methodology has changed depending upon the people and the era. But it was/is Islam. Basically a Social Justice system, not a religion in accordance with the English definition of religion..
Even a Christian Professor was able to grasp the concept of Islam and understand why Jesus(a.s.) was a Muslim
You simply accused me of an error without basis in relation to the argument I presented. What you need is to show me where my logic is wrong re the premises 1-5 I argued above.
In substance 'Islam' is a religion in substance as it meet all the criteria of what is a religion and it not only confine to the English definition. I believe other languages will define 'religion' in the same manner as the English dictionary.
The main purpose of a religion is to deal with the existential dilemma and the approaches of the Abrahamic religions are mainly eschatological and soteriological. Submission is merely a sub-element to this.
Where Islam differs from other religions is merely in its forms not its substance.
Islam is a religion with a Social Justice System, but Christianity, Buddhism and other religions also had such characteristic once. It is only because such religions are more advance and flexible that they focus on their substance of religion and let go of social and justice element to specialists.
This is analogical to Physics which was once Philosophy, but as knowledge advances Physics was divorced and became independent from Philosophy.
Such specialization and independence is a default characteristic of human advancement.
That Islam as religion which cannot let go of it social and judiciary elements is purely a mark of inferiority and lack advancing features. This backwardness of Islam is supported by some many other element in every aspect of universal humanity. The problem is Islam is claimed to be immutable. While it may serves a personal selfish reasons, with its backwardness and inflexibility within immutability that is a bane to humanity collectively.
Point is, there may be submission to God by believers in the past but in truth, Islam as a religion is specific to Muhammad and the Quran.
Note the following bad logic on your part;
1. Islam is submission to God.
Who say so? Where is the proof?
Answer: The Quran Say so
2. Where is the Quran from?
Answer: God via Gabriel to Muhammad
As you can see all the truths above is grounded to the Quran and Muhammad from God.
1. There is empirical evidence for the Quran [as written at present].
2. There are claims of historical evidence of Muhammad [history is not fully accurate]
3. There is no evidence of God and I believe God is an impossibility.
Therefore the only via grounds is the Quran and Muhammad to support the religion of Islam.
The above is based on logic and rational arguments.
We cannot rely on your views based on bad logic and personal subjective opinions.
You simply accused me of an error without basis in relation to the argument I presented. What you need is to show me where my logic is wrong re the premises 1-5 I argued above.
In substance 'Islam' is a religion in substance as it meet all the criteria of what is a religion and it not only confine to the English definition. I believe other languages will define 'religion' in the same manner as the English dictionary.
The main purpose of a religion is to deal with the existential dilemma and the approaches of the Abrahamic religions are mainly eschatological and soteriological. Submission is merely a sub-element to this.
Where Islam differs from other religions is merely in its forms not its substance.
Islam is a religion with a Social Justice System, but Christianity, Buddhism and other religions also had such characteristic once. It is only because such religions are more advance and flexible that they focus on their substance of religion and let go of social and justice element to specialists.
This is analogical to Physics which was once Philosophy, but as knowledge advances Physics was divorced and became independent from Philosophy.
Such specialization and independence is a default characteristic of human advancement.
That Islam as religion which cannot let go of it social and judiciary elements is purely a mark of inferiority and lack advancing features. This backwardness of Islam is supported by some many other element in every aspect of universal humanity. The problem is Islam is claimed to be immutable. While it may serves a personal selfish reasons, with its backwardness and inflexibility within immutability that is a bane to humanity collectively.
Point is, there may be submission to God by believers in the past but in truth, Islam as a religion is specific to Muhammad and the Quran.
Note the following bad logic on your part;
1. Islam is submission to God.
Who say so? Where is the proof?
Answer: The Quran Say so
2. Where is the Quran from?
Answer: God via Gabriel to Muhammad
As you can see all the truths above is grounded to the Quran and Muhammad from God.
1. There is empirical evidence for the Quran [as written at present].
2. There are claims of historical evidence of Muhammad [history is not fully accurate]
3. There is no evidence of God and I believe God is an impossibility.
Therefore the only via grounds is the Quran and Muhammad to support the religion of Islam.
The above is based on logic and rational arguments.
We cannot rely on your views based on bad logic and personal subjective opinions.
The definition of the word Islam is "Submission to Allah". A person who performs the action of Islam is a Muslim(Male) Muslimah(Female) You can look in any Arabic Dictionary and find that. An Arabic dictionary with the definition in Arabic not an Arabic to English translator
Islam does not meet the English definition of religion. There is no identifiable membership as there is no joining. One does not join Islam, there is no membership.
There is no Ordained religious leaders in Islam. One can be a Muslim without ever leaving there home or even ever having contact with a Muslim. There are no required meetings or training.
The definition of the word Islam is "Submission to Allah". A person who performs the action of Islam is a Muslim(Male) Muslimah(Female) You can look in any Arabic Dictionary and find that. An Arabic dictionary with the definition in Arabic not an Arabic to English translator
Islam does not meet the English definition of religion. There is no identifiable membership as there is no joining. One does not join Islam, there is no membership.
There is no Ordained religious leaders in Islam. One can be a Muslim without ever leaving there home or even ever having contact with a Muslim. There are no required meetings or training.
The point here is anyone can claim whatever they want, however it is not the precise "truth" unless it can be equitably justified.
The Jews also submit to God but they will never claim their submission is 'Islam' as the Muslim claimed to be.
It is the same of Christians, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and others who submit to God.
The very justifiable truth that any one can accept is;
It is ridiculous to claim theistic Hinduism is 'Islam' because Hindus submit to God [monotheistic] for any other religion to be 'Islam' just because the submit to a monotheistic God.
It appear it is only you and some Muslims who made such a ridiculous claim which is based on very bad thinking.
The point here is anyone can claim whatever they want, however it is not the precise "truth" unless it can be equitably justified.
The Jews also submit to God but they will never claim their submission is 'Islam' as the Muslim claimed to be.
It is the same of Christians, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and others who submit to God.
The very justifiable truth that any one can accept is;
It is ridiculous to claim theistic Hinduism is 'Islam' because Hindus submit to God [monotheistic] for any other religion to be 'Islam' just because the submit to a monotheistic God.
It appear it is only you and some Muslims who made such a ridiculous claim which is based on very bad thinking.
The Arabic for what Islam is, is De'en. although De'en is often translated to English as religion. The Arabic De'en and Religion have differences.
The word De'en can also be translated as life. Both life and religion are partially correct, neither fully. There is no English word that equates fully with de'en.
The Arabic word (دين) pronounced as De'en, Deen or Din is also translated into English as Recompense(24:25:4) , Judgement(15:35:6) , law(12:76:19), worship(16:52:7), debt(2:282:6)
There are also several different forms it can be written is Depending on if it is used as a verb, Noun or adjective. It is a much broader concept that the English concept of Religion. It is also a term used in Skhism and Christianity. Wiki actually gives a good definition
Quote:
Dīn (دين, also anglicized as Deen) is an Arabic word which is commonly associated with Islam, but it is also used in Sikhism and Arab Christian worship. The term is loosely associated with "religion", but as used in the Qur'an, it means the way of life in which righteous Muslims are obligated to adopt in order to comply with divine law (Quran and sunnah), or Shari'a, and to the divine judgment or recompense to which all humanity must inevitably face without intercessors before God.[1] Thus, although secular Muslims[who?] would say that their practical interpretation of Dīn conforms to "religion" in the restricted sense of something that can be carried out in separation from other areas of life, both mainstream and reformist Muslim writers take the word to mean an all-encompassing way of life carried out under the auspices of God's divine purpose as expressed in the Qur'an and hadith. As one notably progressive Muslim writer puts it, far from being a discrete aspect of life carried out in the mosque, "Islam is Dīn, a complete way of life".[2]
Islam is a De'en not a religion in the concept of the English word Religion. It is much broader and does include many things non-Muslim do not consider as Islam.
The problem with this:
. Religion + [Muhammad & Quran] = Religion of Islam
and this:
Islam is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion articulated by the Qur'an, a religious text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Allāh) and revealed to Muhammad via angel Gabriel.
There can be and have been Muslims that never heard of the Qur'an or Muhammad(saws)
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