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Old 10-11-2015, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"Those 55% of the verses that are seen as having elements of contempt, enmity, antagonism [in various degrees] directed against the infidels, do so because they are taken out of context. "

You could maybe get away with saying that 2% are taken out of context, but 55%!!?? Nope.

These MANY verses are very clear.

I am totally fed up with the bogus 'translation' and 'out of context' excuses.

I suggest you read this very carefully and never, ever pull this 'out of context' nonsense again:

"Out Of Context," Or, How To Argue With A Muslim > Ibn Warraq
I have read Ibn Warraq's work severl times and just reread the link you provided. I will not derail this thread by going off on a criticism of Waqqa. but will mentioned he is Criticized by quite a few Muslims and non-Muslims.


I still contend that many non-Muslims and even many Muslims take the Qur'an and ahadith out of context.



One justification I find for so many taking the Qur'an out of context is because the English translations do not lend well to reading each ayyat as a single word. Put in Punctuation and divide it into numbered lines.

You have none of which in the Tajweed recitations, which is the preferred method of studying the Qur'an.

Also many people assume the Qur'an is a stand alone book. which it is not. It is the source of Islam, but does not teach how to perform Islam.

Another problem is many people equate the telling of historical events with the promoting of violence.

This is the case with many things, including American history

As an american I believe America is a very peaceful nation, but if a non-American were to read our long history of wars, racial intolerance, violence, bigotry, crime rates etc it is understandable the impression is Americans are very violent people that promote hate and fear.
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Old 10-12-2015, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Actually I believe there is a physical basis for all aspects of behaviors, beliefs and emotions.
This is what I believe and that extend to 'God' i.e. there are physical and psychological basis for the belief in God arising from an existential dilemma and cognitive dissonance [yes, as discovered by Leon Festinger]. This is not a wishy-washy idea as many Eastern spiritual and other secular self-development approaches has adopted them.
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Those 55% of the verses that are seen as having elements of contempt, enmity, antagonism [in various degrees] directed against the infidels, do so because they are taken out of context. If is very common for non-Muslims to fail to see that that very very ayyata (lines) are complete statements.

Infidel is actually a very poor word to use for a non-Muslim as many non-Muslims are not infidels.
From the dictionary quote you listed the majority of non-Muslims are 'infidels.' If you do not agree, I will use the term 'non-Muslims.' Thus,

There are 55% of the 6,236 verses that are seen as having elements of contempt, enmity, antagonism [in various degrees] directed against non-Muslims, i.e. those who do not believe in the Quran as revealed to Muhammad.

Note the critical qualification I made, i.e. in various degrees from say Low-1 to High-100.
This mean that there are appx. 3400+ verses that contain at least some elements of contempt in [various degrees] that are directed against non-Muslim, right from the very beginning starting Chapter ONE, i.e. 1:7
1:7 [Pickthall] The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.

1:7 [Khan-Hilali] The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

I don't think you can dispute there is some degree [say 40/100] of contempt in the above verse 1:7 that is directed against non-Muslims. Khan-Hilali is more truthful in specifying [Jews] and ]Christians] in parenthesis because that is the truth as reflected in the whole context of the Quran.

If Allah the greatest is angry with the Jews, surely SOME Muslims are most likely to follow suit. This is naturally psychology that is well researched. If Christians are condemned as astray [a great sin], SOME Muslims will view Christians with contempt, low class and condescendingly.

As you can see right from the beginning there is already a primal and feral 'us versus them' sentiment incited by Muhammad against the non-Muslims or Jews and Christians specifically.

The above is followed by 3400+ verses containing various degrees of contempt of up to 99/100 [e.g. intense abhorrence of Allah against non-Muslims]. I am doing further research to rank the degrees of each verses re contempt against non-Muslims.

With 3400+ verses 55% containing various degrees of contempt it will naturally and subliminally invoke, inflame and incite contempt in SOME [20% =300 million] evil prone Muslims [not you and posters here] to commit evils and violence upon non-Muslim. The fact is these evil and violence acts are already an undisputable reality.

You show me how the above proposition taken out of contexts?

As far as I am concerned and to ensure my integrity I take serious trouble to ensure I do not present out of contexts, i.e. objectively and never emotionally or subjectively. We discussed this point in June 2015, i.e.

To be effective one should read a verse the Quran within the context;
1. Relate each verse to the other verses that are related to the main idea.
2. Relate each verse in the whole chapter
3. Relate each verse to the whole of the Quran
4. Relate each verse to the history of the Quran, Muhammad and the surrounding circumstances.
5. Relate each verse to the philosophy of religion
6. Relate each verse to the human nature and psychology
7. Relate each verse to the whole existence and history of humanity
8. Relate each verse to the Universe
9. Relate each verse to whatever is relevant.
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